Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[XLIX]

You really think a judge grants a surveillance warrant for an unspecified amount of time without strict orders about what its being used for? If a judge suspects the police decided to change the focus of their investigation since they knew there was no human trafficking, and instead decided to focus on using that the same warrant for misdemeanors, you think that’s going to be admissible? There’s going to be a lot of debate about the admissibility of this video, and if they release it and then a judge tosses it from evidence, the police have basically now released to the public a pornographic video of someone who wasn’t aware he was being taped. Yeah, no potential issues here. This is one big bad game of chicken.

It ain’t the police who are going to be publicly humiliated if the video leaks anonymously to TMZ.

Yes a judge will give parameters for what a warrant is for - but if they stumble on others crimes, you still get to use the mechanism of the warrant.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It ain’t the police who are going to be publicly humiliated if the video leaks anonymously to TMZ.

Yes a judge will give parameters for what a warrant is for - but if they stumble on others crimes, you still get to use the mechanism of the warrant.

Of course Kraft would be humiliated. I don’t disagree there, nor am I stumping for Kraft. He’s been dead to me since Deflategate.

But “stumble” is the very heart of the matter here and the assumption that we shouldn’t make. It’s a good word to use though. That’s probably the key word - and the interpretation of its meaning - that will make or break th video’s admissibility.

 

[XLIX]

Of course Kraft would be humiliated. I don’t disagree there, nor am I stumping for Kraft. He’s been dead to me since Deflategate.

But “stumble” is the very heart of the matter here and the assumption that we shouldn’t make. It’s a good word to use though. That’s probably the key word - and the interpretation of its meaning - that will make or break th video’s admissibility.

Yeah but “stumble” was a poor choice of words on my part. When they got a warrant to place cameras in a place where prostitution is taking place, it isn’t exactly a surprise that you’re going to find men engaging in solicitation. It was a logical consequence of placing the video there in the first place, even if the Johns weren’t the subject of the investigation.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yeah but “stumble” was a poor choice of words on my part. When they got a warrant to place cameras in a place where prostitution is taking place, it isn’t exactly a surprise that you’re going to find men engaging in solicitation. It was a logical consequence of placing the video there in the first place, even if the Johns weren’t the subject of the investigation.

Since the human trafficking went bust (as in they found nothing), their probable cause for the warrant itself may be scrutinized. There are a lot of ways this could blow up for them. It doesn’t look good when you’ve “caught” 25 people - NONE of whom were the intended suspects and none guilty of the crime they were surveilling for.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why do you think they would try to settle this case without a conviction of a such a high profile target, if it were so open and shut? Clearly holes here.

 

[ralmat55]

I’m not sure what’s more maddening. Those that want Kraft drawn and quartered for getting a happy ending massage or those who are convinced the world would be rainbows and lollipops if only prostitution was legalized.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

It is not "abusing a warrant" to prosecute illegal activities discovered in the investigation of another crime.

Well, I for one couldn't be happier that US LE has become the Stasi so they can save us from the horrors of middle aged Asian women giving handies to senior citizens. Totally worth it.

 

[XLIX]

Since the human trafficking went bust (as in they found nothing), their probable cause for the warrant itself may be scrutinized.

Don't bet on it. I’d say any place with illegal prostitution - especially by women from other countries - creates a reasonable suspicion there may be trafficking, wouldn’t you?

That’s all probable cause is: a “reasonable belief.” And it is perfectly reasonable to believe there may be sex trafficking in an Asian massage parlor known for selling happy endings.

 

[XLIX]

Why do you think they would try to settle this case without a conviction of a such a high profile target, if it were so open and shut? Clearly holes here.

Because it’s 25 misdemeanors. It is hardly evidence of huge holes in the prosecution when they offered the accused a settlement.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Unless that article is talking about prostitutes in places where prostitution is *legal*, that article tells us nothing about the effects of legalization.

Many of those bad things may well be precisely BECAUSE prostitution is illegal - a prostitute is highly incentivized to not report or take action against the people committing crimes against her.

It is. You should read it before editorializing on it.

 

[The Brandon Five]

It's legal in Nevada, so the USA falls in the grey area

It is legal in certain counties in Nevada, but not Las Vegas. Let that sink in when you think about the flyers that get thrown at you in Vegas.

 

[Joker]

Joker I’m gonna call you out on your first sentence. I’ll give you two options for a job for six months. Handies at $100 a pop or Walmart greeter. Which one do you sign up for?

Mosslost — have I got a poll idea for you!

Neither. As a former member of OC, I'm strictly a one woman man...and WalMart has a wanted poster of me in every store office in the country due to a string of misappropriations I made at gunpoint back in the day.Fortunately I found Jay Suss (Jayson Susskind) way back when and have been on the straight and narrow highway ever since.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Since the human trafficking went bust (as in they found nothing), their probable cause for the warrant itself may be scrutinized. There are a lot of ways this could blow up for them. It doesn’t look good when you’ve “caught” 25 people - NONE of whom were the intended suspects and none guilty of the crime they were surveilling for.

Since the cameras were put in the massage rooms that tells me they were looking for further evidence of prostitution, not trafficking, from those cameras.

I strongly suspect they went to the judge and swore out a warrant simply saying “here are the reasons and facts why we believe prostitution is going on there. It meets the probable cause threshold, please give as a warrant to place cameras.” They could EASILY have PC for a warrant without mentioning trafficking at all.

Also, just because they didn’t find trafficking does NOT mean they didn’t have probable cause to get a warrant to look for it.

 

[Joker]

Yeah QM, of course they went to the judge and got whatever they wanted. Krist they all knew what was going on for YEARS and I'm betting profited on the side all along. Looks like someone with substantial jack came along and offered them a deal they couldn't refuse. Shooting fish in a barrel...and yeehaw, Buford, you get your name in all the papers in the country!...Oh dee camptowen ladies two by two doo dah doo dah....hell no, we'll NEVER forget.The South will rise agin!" This tangled web is going to unravel...mark my words.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Since the cameras were put in the massage rooms that tells me they were looking for further evidence of prostitution, not trafficing, from those cameras.

I strongly suspect they went to the judge and swore out a warrant simply saying “here are the reasons and facts why we believe prostitution is going on there. It meets the probable cause threshold, please give as a warrant to place cameras.” They could EASILY have PC for a warrant without mentioning trafficking at all.

Also, just because they didn’t find trafficking does NOT mean they didn’t have probable cause to get a warrant to look for it.

So once again, absolutely nothing wrong with the warrant, probable cause, or use of cameras.

Yet...they have him on tape dead to the wall on this charge. An entire police force who would love nothing more than to become heroes for busting Robert Kraft. Puffing out their chests on national TV about their prized misdemeanor bust of the century.

And once again, you think there’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with their methods and that this was all legit police tactics.

BUT, for some odd reason.......they decide, what the heck, we won’t prosecute you, Bob. Just admit you’d be guilty. Because we’d win in court, but we just don’t want to go through this process where we’ll be great heroes of justice and validate our entire careers. Nope, nothing for us to be afraid of...no issues with the surveillance or due process here.

And BK rejects their deal at the advice of an all-pro legal team.

If you can’t see that the Police Department is about to eat ****, you’re blind. They offered the deal because they don’t want this going to trial because they know they’re going to be eating ****. Otherwise they’d like nothing more than to celebrate their career defining victory over pure evil (a 70 year old man getting a consensual HJ for money.)

BK will eat **** too if the video is released, but he probably figures it’s out of his hands now and in the judge’s hands. He’ll do everything in his power to appeal and appeal. And the longer it takes, the less anyone will give a crap.

I’ll bet anyone on this forum that BK not only beats the rap but the PD is exposed badly. They offered BK a pretty sweet deal - if they in fact had a strong case here - and he rejected it. They then went right to the video leverage hoping BK would reconsider. They want this to go to court less than BK does. Think about why they wanted to avoid an actual trial and conviction despite getting a massive fish on the hook and what appears to be an open and shut case. They know something is massively f’d up in this investigation.

Looking forward to your patented, flaming red disagree tomorrow AM.

 

[Soliel]

Anyone saying Kraft is already guilty, well, basically you are correct but due process needs to play out. I’m not there yet where I’m ready to call him guilty. Let’s review a few facts here.

1. Any evidence from video was obtained illegally. (A kiddy lawyer could beat this case like a Salvation Army drum)
2. They know they are in violation of the anti terror laws. No not even the police can make a bomb threat
3. They sat there for months allowing this. The optics are bad and the state will lose at trial.

I could say more but this is enough. Any lawyer, especially one named Goldberger, will murder this case even worse than Eminem rapping against ja rule. It’s over

 

[DarrylS]

So once again, absolutely nothing wrong with the warrant, probable cause, or use of cameras.

Yet...they have him on tape dead to the wall on this charge. An entire police force who would love nothing more than to become heroes for busting Robert Kraft. Puffing out their chests on national TV about their prized misdemeanor bust of the century.

And once again, you think there’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with their methods and that this was all legit police tactics.

BUT, for some odd reason.......they decide, what the heck, we won’t prosecute you, Bob. Just admit you’d be guilty. Because we’d win in court, but we just don’t want to go through this process where we’ll be great heroes of justice and validate our entire careers. Nope, nothing for us to be afraid of...no issues with the surveillance or due process here.

And BK rejects their deal at the advice of an all-pro legal team.

If you can’t see that the Police Department is about to eat ****, you’re blind. They offered the deal because they don’t want this going to trial because they know they’re going to be eating ****. Otherwise they’d like nothing more than to celebrate their career defining victory over pure evil (a 70 year old man getting a consensual HJ for money.)

BK will eat **** too if the video is released, but he probably figures it’s out of his hands now and in the judge’s hands. He’ll do everything in his power to appeal and appeal. And the longer it takes, the less anyone will give a crap.

I’ll bet anyone on this forum that BK not only beats the rap but the PD is exposed badly. They offered BK a pretty sweet deal - if they in fact had a strong case here - and he rejected it. They then went right to the video leverage hoping BK would reconsider. They want this to go to court less than BK does. Think about why they wanted to avoid an actual trial and conviction despite getting a massive fish on the hook and what appears to be an open and shut case. They know something is massively f’d up in this investigation.

Looking forward to your patented, flaming red disagree tomorrow AM.

I do not see this as a sweet deal for Mr. Kraft, they are essentially offering an Alford Plea which would do nothing to minimize the impact on him, legally. The impact of him in terms of embarrassment for he, his family and businesses. The impact of his "moral high ground" is devastating.

What does not make any sense to me is for the Florida AG to broadcast this deal in the press before any negotiations take place with his defense attorneys, usually this step takes place in private out of the public eye... the only thing that makes sense to me is that the PD screwed up somehow and they are using a strategy often used on the accused with piss poor lawyers.

I still do not get the whole the PD had to wait from Oct. to March to get enough evidence, how much "evidence" was needed??.. It seems that their focus should have been getting the women out of there to avoid further issues for them.. they did not need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..

Jupiter Police Mission Statement: "We are dedicated to the safety and security of everyone within our community by providing responsive and professional services with compassion and concern." .. this seems the opposite by allowing these women to be continually victimized for the sake of a "larger order"... It seems that any of these strip mall massage parlors, with the name Asian in their title, are probably offering more than a massage.

 

[Soliel]

I do not see this as a sweet deal for Mr. Kraft, they are essentially offering an Alford Plea which would do nothing to minimize the impact on him, legally. The impact of him in terms of embarrassment for he, his family and businesses. The impact of his "moral high ground" is devastating.

What does not make any sense to me is for the Florida AG to broadcast this deal in the press before any negotiations take place with his defense attorneys, usually this step takes place in private out of the public eye... the only thing that makes sense to me is that the PD screwed up somehow and they are using a strategy often used on the accused with piss poor lawyers.

I still do not get the whole the PD had to wait from Oct. to March to get enough evidence, how much "evidence" was needed??.. It seems that their focus should have been getting the women out of there to avoid further issues for them.. they did not need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..

Jupiter Police Mission Statement: "We are dedicated to the safety and security of everyone within our community by providing responsive and professional services with compassion and concern." .. this seems the opposite by allowing these women to be continually victimized for the sake of a "larger order"... It seems that any of these strip mall massage parlors, with the name Asian in their title, are probably offering more than a massage.

I know why they broadcast the deal. They have a no win situation on their hands. They are not facing a public defender but a off the hook Jewish lawyer who will just burn you out. They know they obtained illegally gotten evidence which equals zero. They know they stand no chance at all of defeating Goldberger because they went outside the parameters of the law. They also know that goldberger will make them look almost complicit it crimes by letting it go on.

You can write this down. The state will not win this case period

 

[DarrylS]

I know why they broadcast the deal. They have a no win situation on their hands. They are not facing a public defender but a off the hook Jewish lawyer who will just burn you out. They know they obtained illegally gotten evidence which equals zero. They know they stand no chance at all of defeating Goldberger because they went outside the parameters of the law. They also know that goldberger will make them look almost complicit it crimes by letting it go on.

You can write this down. The state will not win this case period

I agree, this strategy is usually used poor folks accused behind closed doors to free up resources... to negotiate a plea deal on a high profile case in the press is troubling... to negotiate a plea deal in the press is troubling for anyone accused of a crime at any phase of criminal proceedings..

I know the Epstein Case is federal, but combined it is putting a lot of pressure on all prosecutors to try to come up with more palatable efforts at criminal prosecution in "victimization" cases...

 

[Soliel]

I agree, this strategy is usually used poor folks accused behind closed doors to free up resources... to negotiate a plea deal on a high profile case in the press is troubling... to negotiate a plea deal in the press is troubling for anyone accused of a crime at any phase of criminal proceedings..

I know the Epstein Case is federal, but combined it is putting a lot of pressure on all prosecutors to try to come up with more palatable efforts at criminal prosecution in "victimization" cases...

I agree with this angle also, I do know that there’s a problem. But rules are rules.

They damn well know they are not winning a misdemeanor case like this with not one, not two, but three giant holes in the methods and procedures. Not happening. I promise you I will eat my least favorite hat on live stream for all to watch. I know, that legal team knows and Deus Irae , who used to work I law offices of some kind, also knows this is not going to fly.