Kraft admits he sold the team out

[lancerman]

That’s bs. But please explain to me why appealing penalties when you are not guilty to the man you helped get the job, suppport at every turn, publicly embrace often, stand up for against another owner, recommend a contract extension for and have never criticized would have no chance of succeeding.

The please explain why Robert Kraft himself said that isn’t the reason he didn’t appeal.

The answer is making that up and believing that is the only way you can defend your position.


Explain this one for me.

When his team and GOAT were attacked he did nothing.
When Jerry Jones attaches goodell kraft stood up and fought.

Yeah the thing you are missing is that he's appealing to the guy who commissioned the investigation that found the Patriots guilty, said he stood behind the investigation, the guy whose boys issued the punishment and who vigorously fought Brady in court to uphold the punishment.

I'm sure he was going to reverse the decision he made on behalf of the other owners.

And gumdrops and cotton candy will fall from the sky.

Do you the only way that penalty was getting lessened? The same deal they gave Brady. Admit guilt and apologize and they'll cut it in half. They never reverse a penalty without the team or player admitting guilt and apologizing.

Edit also he didn't do "nothing" he didn't do enough for you. He publicly challenged the league and disagreed with decision and even as a recently as a week ago said the league was wrong for how they handled it and even commissioned a report to counter the findings. He just didn't do enough for you who wanted a bunch of meaningless gestures that had next to no chance of succeeding in any rational persons opinion.

 

[Tony2046]

Do you think an appeal had any real chance of success? Let's start there. There's a right answer btw.

From there, and let's see if you actually are capable of getting that right answer first, so you wanted Kraft to do something that had no real prospects of succeeding because..... fill in the blanks.

Just face it dude, you don't want anything tangible. Your upset that a billionaire didn't give you a symbolic rah rah gesture so you could feel better. Meanwhile the people that actually were effected by this (the coaches, the players, Brady himself) are all on good terms with Kraft despite all of that.

It's amazing you don't see the disconnect. You are living in a fantasy world thinking that any different outcome was going to happen and that people who actually have to behave like adults would act any differently. You have no skin in the game here besides being a fan. It's so easy for you to play Monday morning QB on this one.

Again did you notice Brady eventually capitulated. Literally he could have fought to the bitter end. He didn't. He used the only realistic channel he had to get a different outcome and when that failed he decided not to go to drastic measures for an unlikely reverse of outcome. Did you notice Brady didn't go out trashing Goodell after. Did you notice Brady played nice and smiled and took pictures with Goodell when he had the MVP ceremony? By your definition did he capitulate too?

Just bizarre.

Look. This is getting really tiring. "Dude."

I don't live in a fantasy land. I don't hug principles who railroad my kid. I don't hug, kiss, praise and support frauds.

Your and the simpleton's schtick is old and lame.

"Brady didn't go out trashing Goodell" ? I guess you missed the "Roger that" and the "assumptions lead to 4 week vacations" commercials among other things.

Kraft had options left and folded. You seem to understand that but dismiss it with "he wasn't going to win anyways". The result is that the league handicapped the Patriots for the sake of parity and railroaded Brady along the way. Kraft was weak through spygate and again through deflategate. Who's going to stop them from creating another scandal? Not Bob.

Saying Brady capitulated is ridiculous. The only reason there is any deflategate egg on Roger's face today is because Brady faught it further than anyone expected. His actions resulted in the release of the appeal transcripts which was something the league did not want public. Those transcripts exposed Roger's lies and mischaracterizations throughout the process. Those released transcripts and Brady's continuous fight led to the turnaround of opinions.

I honestly have a tough time believing that you actually believe what you write. I cannot imagine not fighting for something as big as deflategate was when the truth and science was on my side. You'll never convince me otherwise.

Again I will always respect and appreciate Kraft for all that he has done but I will never agree with his giving up the good fight.

 

[Ring 6]

Appeal to Goodel! The guy responsible for the penalty in the first place!

Wells was responsible for the penalty. His report was presented without a response from the defense.

Again, why would it be doomed to fail if kraft to this day supports goodell. Surely he wouldn’t support someone who told him he wouldn’t treat him fairly no matter what.

But again, kraft himself said it wasn’t about whether he could succeed it was about the 31 being more important.
Why aren’t you explaining why we should believe the 31 are more important?

That's such a great idea that Brady tried it and not only did the appeal fail (duh), but Goodell literally committed perjury in federal court to continue to smear him

Goodell didn’t testify in federal court so um guessing he didn’t commit perjury.
Brady’s appeal was lost because he destroyed the phone. Nothing mattered after that.
If you can’t see the difference between an owner and a player appealing then you are either lying or not too bright. Goodell works for the owners. Goodell’s job is to keep the union and the players down.

I don't care what facts you try to sling out there on appeal.

Clearly you don’t care about facts.

If the league was interested in facts in the first place the Wells report would never have been written the way it was.

Wells wrote a report and no one objected. No one rebutted. No one said a word. Of course goodell accepts the wells report. Kraft did too.

You want Kraft to have exhausted his options, I get that. I maintain that since a proposed course of action that has a literally 0% chance of producing the desired result is not an "option" by definition, not trying it does not, necessarily, mean Kraft didn't exhaust his options.

The only way there is 0 chance is when you have to make that up because it is the only way to defend your position.

But let me guess when the penalties were announced and kraft got in front of a camera and said because what is best for the other 31 is more important than what is best for the patriots he ACCEPTS THE PENALTIES, WILL NOT APPEAL AND WILL END THE RHETORIC, you applauded him and were proud of his response.

 

[lancerman]

Look. This is getting really tiring. "Dude."

I don't live in a fantasy land. I don't hug principles who railroad my kid. I don't hug, kiss, praise and support frauds.

Your and the simpleton's schtick is old and lame.

"Brady didn't go out trashing Goodell" ? I guess you missed the "Roger that" and the "assumptions lead to 4 week vacations" commercials among other things.

Kraft had options left and folded. You seem to understand that but dismiss it with "he wasn't going to win anyways". The result is that the league handicapped the Patriots for the sake of parity and railroaded Brady along the way. Kraft was weak through spygate and again through deflategate. Who's going to stop them from creating another scandal? Not Bob.

Saying Brady capitulated is ridiculous. The only reason there is any deflategate egg on Roger's face today is because Brady faught it further than anyone expected. His actions resulted in the release of the appeal transcripts which was something the league did not want public. Those transcripts exposed Roger's lies and mischaracterizations throughout the process. Those released transcripts and Brady's continuous fight led to the turnaround of opinions.

I honestly have a tough time believing that you actually believe what you write. I cannot imagine not fighting for something as big as deflategate was when the truth and science was on my side. You'll never convince me otherwise.

Again I will always respect and appreciate Kraft for all that he has done but I will never agree with his giving up the good fight.

Sorry that's just not true. Brady actually could have kept fighting. Like Kraft he had options left and folded. His legal team and the NFLPA were actually getting ready to keep the fight going to the Supreme Court.

And yeah the Roger that commercial is all well and good, the day after the Super Bowl he still stood next to the guy and smiled and had his picture taken and never said a bad word about him publicly.

So yeah in the end Brady took it further, but he had plays he could have run and he decided to give up the fight and just take it so he could move on. That's just what happens sometimes. Sometimes the deck is just stacked against you and the gain from the fight isn't worth the effort. The criminal justice system is full of people who took plea deals because the risk and investment of time and money in a drawn trial just wasn't worth it. Kraft didn't have good options and he decided to move on. Brady had options to keep going, they weren't good, so he moved on.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah the thing you are missing is that he's appealing to the guy who commissioned the investigation that found the Patriots guilty, said he stood behind the investigation, the guy whose boys issued the punishment and who vigorously fought Brady in court to uphold the punishment.

Then why is kraft hugging him, recommending a contract extension and standing up to fight jones when he goes after goodell?
If he thought goodell was so corrupt that he would punish him for being innocent why is he doing those things? Why to this day has he not criticized him a single time over this?

I'm sure he was going to reverse the decision he made on behalf of the other owners.

He accepted the wells report pending appeal. That appeal never came.

And gumdrops and cotton candy will fall from the sky.

And kraft will hug goodell.

Do you the only way that penalty was getting lessened? The same deal they gave Brady. Admit guilt and apologize and they'll cut it in half. They never reverse a penalty without the team or player admitting guilt and apologizing.

How many other players or teams have they penalized that were 100% innocent?
None.
But since the patriots chose not to prove their innocence I guess they weren’t either.

Edit also he didn't do "nothing" he didn't do enough for you. He publicly challenged the league and disagreed with decision and even as a recently as a week ago said the league was wrong for how they handled it

That is doing nothing. Making hollow comments and abandoning his right to file an appeal to contest us exactly doing nothing.

and even commissioned a report to counter the findings.

He did that after he gave up. And he did nothing with it. It was an attempt to dupe fan like you into thinking he did something. Looks like it worked on you. Please explain what he accomplished by doing this after he could no longer use it.

He just didn't do enough for you who wanted a bunch of meaningless gestures that had next to no chance of succeeding in any rational persons opinion.

Quote the contrary. I wanted meaningful tangible efforts to protect and defend his franchise. He chose to accept the penalties and not exercise his opportunity to mount a defense.
If it were because he couldn’t win, surely he would have said that in the last 2 years. Or are you saying he is lying to us when he explains why he did nothing?

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry that's just not true. Brady actually could have kept fighting. Like Kraft he had options left and folded. His legal team and the NFLPA were actually getting ready to keep the fight going to the Supreme Court.

And yeah the Roger that commercial is all well and good, the day after the Super Bowl he still stood next to the guy and smiled and had his picture taken and never said a bad word about him publicly.

So yeah in the end Brady took it further, but he had plays he could have run and he decided to give up the fight and just take it so he could move on. That's just what happens sometimes. Sometimes the deck is just stacked against you and the gain from the fight isn't worth the effort. The criminal justice system is full of people who took plea deals because the risk and investment of time and money in a drawn trial just wasn't worth it. Kraft didn't have good options and he decided to move on. Brady had options to keep going, they weren't good, so he moved on.

Why do you insist on telling us kraft is a liar.
Kraft says he didn’t fight because the result was better for the 31 and that is more important that what is good for the patriots.
Why do you insist on claiming there was a different reason when the man has already stated multiple times exactly what the reason was?

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry that's just not true. Brady actually could have kept fighting. Like Kraft he had options left and folded. His legal team and the NFLPA were actually getting ready to keep the fight going to the Supreme Court.

And yeah the Roger that commercial is all well and good, the day after the Super Bowl he still stood next to the guy and smiled and had his picture taken and never said a bad word about him publicly.

So yeah in the end Brady took it further, but he had plays he could have run and he decided to give up the fight and just take it so he could move on. That's just what happens sometimes. Sometimes the deck is just stacked against you and the gain from the fight isn't worth the effort. The criminal justice system is full of people who took plea deals because the risk and investment of time and money in a drawn trial just wasn't worth it. Kraft didn't have good options and he decided to move on. Brady had options to keep going, they weren't good, so he moved on.

Brady moved on because his mother had cancer and was at risk of dying.

 

[Tony2046]

Sorry that's just not true. Brady actually could have kept fighting. Like Kraft he had options left and folded. His legal team and the NFLPA were actually getting ready to keep the fight going to the Supreme Court.

And yeah the Roger that commercial is all well and good, the day after the Super Bowl he still stood next to the guy and smiled and had his picture taken and never said a bad word about him publicly.

So yeah in the end Brady took it further, but he had plays he could have run and he decided to give up the fight and just take it so he could move on. That's just what happens sometimes. Sometimes the deck is just stacked against you and the gain from the fight isn't worth the effort. The criminal justice system is full of people who took plea deals because the risk and investment of time and money in a drawn trial just wasn't worth it. Kraft didn't have good options and he decided to move on. Brady had options to keep going, they weren't good, so he moved on.

This is just idiotic. WTF are you doing? "I'll say whatever it takes to win this argument"

Brady faught it as far as he could. How do you not understand that?

If he continued on and lost the appeal in the SC he could have possibly had the bogus suspension applied during the playoffs. Further, he found out his mother had cancer at that same time and decided that possibly missing games during the postseason and fighting Roger while his mother was fighting cancer wasn't worth it.

You'd have to be a complete f'ing tool to not know or understand that.

Here's what I think of you. You're a f'ing p***y. Plain and simple. You stretch a truth to satisfy your plight to be right..

Go hug your Principle and go f**k yourself.

Brady faught deflategate as far as he could without jeopardizing the season. He played 12 games, won the SB in historic fashion and hugged his Mom at the podium. Roger got the booing of his life.

You're classless bag of ****.

 

[DarrylS]

People should stop talking about fighting these cases in the SCOTUS, as the SCOTUS only decides to hear a select few cases every term.. so to assume that this would have been resolved there is erroneous, there is no evidence that they would have heard the case.

FYI the SCOTUS chooses to hear about 100-150 cases a year, from the 7,000 cases that is asked to rule on....

 

[Kontradiction]

This is just idiotic. WTF are you doing? "I'll say whatever it takes to win this argument"

Brady faught it as far as he could. How do you not understand that?

If he continued on and lost the appeal in the SC he could have possibly had the bogus suspension applied during the playoffs. Further, he found out his mother had cancer at that same time and decided that possibly missing games during the postseason and fighting Roger while his mother was fighting cancer wasn't worth it.

You'd have to be a complete f'ing tool to not know or understand that.

Here's what I think of you. You're a f'ing p***y. Plain and simple. You stretch a truth to satisfy your plight to be right..

Go hug your Principle and go f**k yourself.

Brady faught deflategate as far as he could without jeopardizing the season. He played 12 games, won the SB in historic fashion and hugged his Mom at the podium. Roger got the booing of his life.

You're classless bag of ****.

Nicely done. You’re learning. I’m done with the endless debating in the Kraft threads outside of purely reading them for entertainment purposes. Look how far the guy you just quoted had to stretch himself in this thread, how many straw men he set up, how many goal posts he moved, just to defend a man that publicly back Goodell on multiple faux pas, has been seen embracing him (when a simple business handshake would have done), invited him to a private box in the stadium after DFG, and then backed him over Jones. Just sit back and read. It’s high comedy.

 

[PatriotsReign]

No I have never heard brady refer to kraft as a second father and seriously doubt he ever has.

Wilfork started that. I don’t draw the same conclusion as you.

So Brady and Wilfork both kiss Kraft and tell him they love him and you think it means what?

Go ahead, tell us how you interpret that

 

[PatriotsReign]

Trade him over deflategate? You would forgive him for abandoning you because he is lucky enough to have the greatest qb in history on his team?
Trade him for getting falsely accused and punished? That is nuts.

Andy....just an FYI

It’s impossible for you to be offended by what someone else says to anyone that’s not you

You’re just another Patriots and Tom Brady fan. You’re as run of the mill as the rest of us.

Brady AND Kraft are awesome, so deal with it.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Okay then it's not worth arguing with someone who dug their feet in the sand this much. The people that were effected most haven't said anything that wasn't positive about Kraft and both of them still remain employed by him despite being regarded as the best in their field and could play for any team in the league they wanted. Yet somehow an owner who legitimately will go down as one of the best ever and who brought his franchise near immediate an unprecedented success upon arrival is a terrible owner. Have fun ranting while history and reality ignore you because you are too salty that a billionaire surrounded by more qualified people than yourself decided not to take a course of action that most people deemed futile.

Can ask though? Did it sting a little bit watching the last Super Bowl win and seeing the first person being handed the trophy the owner you think is irrelevant outside of one hire? Was it a bit of gut punch watching B.B. and Brady hugging him and celebrating with him over it? Weird how you have this crazy disdain for him while the people he sold out according to you don't seem to have that issue.

Fuggn HOO Rah!

Great post and very truthful

 

[Soliel]

Just because an appeal has zero chance of success doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. I think that’s the problem. As a football fan it’s going to be compared like this in mind.

The Steelers have zero chance of beating the pats so they have these choices a: show up and lose big. B: forfeit and tell fans the game wouldn’t go anywhere

This whole saga was designed to create discord.
Also it’s the most polarizing argument I’ve ever seen, even worse than a gun control argument on a political forum

 

[Simpelton]

Wells was responsible for the penalty.

No. Wells was responsible for the Wells Report. Goodell was responsible for the penalty. Do try to keep up.

Everything in the Wells Report could be taken for absolute gospel and still be used as grounds for a fine or a slap on the wrist rather than a 4 game suspension, and loss of a first and 4th round pick.

It is Goodell who was ultimately responsible for reviewing the "facts" and deciding what punishment to assess at the end of the day.

You are utterly naive to expect a bunch of rich billionaires to give up on getting their way simply because the facts don't line up with their preconceived notions. It's like you have no idea how rich people work. Once the penalty was assessed, egos are in play and facts go out the window.

I don't believe there was a realistic option left when Kraft folded his hand. There was a bunch of symbolic gestures of defiance that might have boomeranged back on him and a wild goose chase or two, that was about it.

As for why Kraft is buddy-buddy with Goodell now, I personally believe it's because he's done what a lot of fans in this thread need to do -- accept the penalty and move on. He's been shown that the Commissioner can make life inconvenient for him, so instead of being vindictive or out for revenge, he makes the moves he needs to make to try to prevent that from happening again by making plays to stay in the Commissioner's good graces.

again this isn't a democracy, the NFL is an oligarchy, and if an oligarch doesn't know how to get cozy with the enemy, his rule in the oligarchy will be pretty short.

 

[Simpelton]

Just because an appeal has zero chance of success doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. I think that’s the problem. As a football fan it’s going to be compared like this in mind.

The Steelers have zero chance of beating the pats so they have these choices a: show up and lose big. B: forfeit and tell fans the game wouldn’t go anywhere

How about if the Steelers are already down 30 points and don't alter the game plan? How about if the run game is getting stuffed and losing yards at every turn and the coach keeps stubbornly running on first down?

If after being down 30 the Steelers bring in some developmental guys who need reps and go to the backup quarterback, is that in some way dishonorable to you.

At some point when you're far enough in the red, it becomes about the next game rather than this one. At a certain point you have to accept the reality in front of you and deal with the situation based on where you are right now, rather than where your overinflated sense of justice tells you you "should" be.

I'm seeing this "they should have appealed" thing in light of what happened to Brady's appeal. Remember, not only did Brady's appeal fail spectacularly, but Goodell literally committed perjury to try to lie about the nature of the appeals process to Judge Berman. This is not a man whose mind is open.

I don't actually disagree that it might have been useful to exhaust the process just to say you did it, but you're naive if you think that would have really changed anything. A course of action with a 0% chance of success is not actually, by definition, an "option," so IMHO it doesn't count as not "exhausting your options."

I see this as Kraft altering his game plan. He's an investor. His job is to assess risks and decide where to put his money. He was done putting his money behind bad investments and wrote the Deflategate process off as a sunk cost -- fine, it's literally his job to make that determination. He made the call that the best remaining course of action was to change the playbook and cozy up to the commissioner. I can't say he's wrong.

 

[Soliel]

How about if the Steelers are already down 30 points and don't alter the game plan? How about if the run game is getting stuffed and losing yards at every turn and the coach keeps stubbornly running on first down?

At a certain point you have to accept the reality in front of you and deal with the situation based on where you are right now, rather than where your overinflated sense of justice tells you you "should" be.

I'm seeing this "they should have appealed" thing in light of what happened to Brady's appeal. Remember, not only did Brady's appeal fail spectacularly, but Goodell literally committed perjury to try to lie about the nature of the appeals process to Judge Berman. This is not a man whose mind is open.

I don't actually disagree that it might have been useful to exhaust the process just to say you did it, but you're naive if you think that would have really changed anything. A course of action with a 0% chance of success is not actually, by definition, an "option," so IMHO it doesn't count as not "exhausting your options."

Actually, I’m certain it wouldn’t have changed anything. But the optics are not good. I probably shouldn’t use that analogy but I believe that’s the core problem. Football fans are used to seeing their team fight to the end, even if down 25 points in the 3rd. No quitting or folding. Now, the owner quits on something is going to be seen negatively in the extreme especially a farce and kangaroo court proceeding filled with so much crap that the first federal judge laughed, rolled his eyes and kinda got mad.

I need to know something though. I can’t make a final decision without seeing where Goodell committed perjury, where can I look at that? I tried google but got nothing on him appearing

 

[Simpelton]

Actually, I’m certain it wouldn’t have changed anything. But the optics are not good. I probably shouldn’t use that analogy but I believe that’s the core problem. Football fans are used to seeing their team fight to the end, even if down 25 points in the 3rd. No quitting or folding. Now, the owner quits on something is going to be seen negatively in the extreme especially a farce and kangaroo court proceeding filled with so much crap that the first federal judge laughed, rolled his eyes and kinda got mad.

I need to know something though. I can’t make a final decision without seeing where Goodell committed perjury, where can I look at that? I tried google but got nothing on him appearing

It's been years since I read the article so I'm not sure I could dig it up now. It was part of the federal court procedings, Goodell's legal team was trying to misrepresent something that Brady said as part of the appeals process as a confession of wrongdoing, Brady's team objected, Judge Berman ordered the league to cough up the transcript of the appeals process to prove who was right, they hemmed and hawed and drug their heels but eventually had to give it to him and it proved the NFL team to be lying. Last time I checked misrepresenting a statement under oath when you either know or should have known better is lying under oath and therefore perjury.

 

[Jackson 2]

It's been years since I read the article so I'm not sure I could dig it up now. It was part of the federal court procedings, Goodell's legal team was trying to misrepresent something that Brady said as part of the appeals process as a confession of wrongdoing, Brady's team objected, Judge Berman ordered the league to cough up the transcript of the appeals process to prove who was right, they hemmed and hawed and drug their heels but eventually had to give it to him and it proved the NFL team to be lying. Last time I checked misrepresenting a statement under oath when you either know or should have known better is lying under oath and therefore perjury.

If I recall correctly, part of the issue was that the statements were not made under oath.

 

[TomPatriot]

It's been years since I read the article so I'm not sure I could dig it up now. It was part of the federal court procedings, Goodell's legal team was trying to misrepresent something that Brady said as part of the appeals process as a confession of wrongdoing, Brady's team objected, Judge Berman ordered the league to cough up the transcript of the appeals process to prove who was right, they hemmed and hawed and drug their heels but eventually had to give it to him and it proved the NFL team to be lying. Last time I checked misrepresenting a statement under oath when you either know or should have known better is lying under oath and therefore perjury.

Civil perjury is rarely prosecuted in that courthouse or the one next door. Federal prosecutors have better things to do. What lying under oath does best is damage your case and reputation.