Kraft admits he sold the team out

[supafly]

So this thread seems to be ready to wing dien.

Wah Da Ta, My Damie.

Do it for the Tippi Tais.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I try to drink as much as possible. Lol

Kinda like edibles. It don’t help my vocabulary problems here though, I read some posts here and one side is always heated, then I get either laughing or kinda pissed off. I’ve had a lot of arguments about football over the years. Especially on topics like this. People at pft probably want to have me booted off there lol

Try a warm glass of milk and some brownies. Works for me.

 

[lancerman]

1) I think many owners would have appealed.

2) that is a nonsensical question. I would expect belichick to hsbf as much success as he did if a different owner hired him.

3) There is no way to answer that. I would rather have almost any other owner provider they hired belichick, left him alone, and fought when goodell tried to screw the franchise.
You are trying to credit kraft for belichicks success.
If kraft was the only man in the world who would have hired belichick (which he isn’t) then he would be the best owner because the success is due to belichick and he has had more success in spite of kraft than another coach would have with a better owner.

4) including hiring belichick a net positive, aside from hiring belichick a net negative.

1.Kraft and Jones are easily two of the top 5 most powerful and influential owners in the league along with Mara, the Rooney's, and Jerry Richardson. Both of them backed down when it came to actually taking action that could dictate a break in the league. Jerry for all his talk laughed off any serious action. Maybe a joke of an owner like Dan Snyder would be dumb to enough to do that, but he's already kind of a fringe owner that's disliked and not anybody I'm interested in leading the Pats.

2. Because he had a different owner and he had one winning season under that owner and a single playoff win under that owner. And before you say "oh it was the Browns" the old real Browns before they became the Ravens and not the new joke version were actually a competitive team and under the same ownerwhip won a SB as the Ravens a few years after they got rid of Belichick. So yeah the owner and the coach relationship does matter. Parcells and Belichick could win in New York but Parcells and Kraft had issues and he didn't make it here, Kraft and Belichick are simpatico and it's one of the best owner/coach dynamics in the NFL.

3. Okay well most owners aren't going to spend a draft pick on a failed coach and then give him the complete autonomy to run their team. There was a very successful owner who the SB the year before us who famously told Kraft it would be the biggest mistake of his life to hire Belichick. Let alone give him all the power he gave him. Kraft had the foresight to see Belichick's talent when he was not viewed that favorably and aggressively go after him when the opportunity came. The reality Kraft was probably the owner in the league who was going to play hardball to snatch Belichick away from the Jets. So no without Kraft you aren't having a give in of getting Belichick. Let alone letting Belichick take on a good chunk of general manager responsibilities in tandem with Scott Piolo until Pioli left in 08 and Belichick was solely responsible for it. Again name a better owner that you think would be more successful and would lead us to more success. Because in the Super Bowl era only the Rooney's as a family and Debartolo in San Francisco had as much success as owners. And Debartolo is the only one that did it in a reasonable amount of time that's comparable to us and he had a very similar coach and QB situation. It's very rare to have an owner/coach/qb triumvirate where it all works out well to the point where you have an unprecedented amount of success in this league.

4. Before Belichick even got there he already had the team in a Super Bowl in 96 just two years into how ownership and was responsible for 2 of the most successful coaches to have ever been on the team as far as success in the NFL before and after to come to the club. What were the Patriots doing before him? They had one half decent run in the 80's where they got creamed by the Bears at the end.

You're taking so much for a given that some other owner would have liked a failed coach in Belichick so much that they would have given a draft pick up for him and the having learned from his experiences with two previous coaches known exactly how much power and authority to give him. Not to mention the great working relationship the two have. And that somehow it manifests itself into an unprecendented run of success that nobody else has ever had to this degree.

 

[lancerman]

BB was already well known as one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL with 2 rings and another SB appearance. He was going to get another shot at HC. In fact he had one already when he chose to leave.

BB and Brady are responsible for the franchises meteoric rise. If anything Kraft owes them for the money and fame he has. But he sold them out for league politics instead.

He had a head coaching job because Parcells; tee'd him up for the Jets gig despite him being widely regarded as a complete failure in Cleveland. Kraft aggressively went after Belichick when that happened (sorry no other owner was going to make a hardball play like that Belichick and give up a pick to do it) based off his experience with him when Parcells' was in NE. Kraft ultimately ditched the Jets because him and Kraft reportedly got a long very well during his brief stint as assistant coach with the Pats and Belichick believed it was a better opportunity than the Jets. Which should speak volumes that Belichick was willing jump ship and ditch a team that was offering him his first HC opportunity after his last one went up in smokes and break from a plan his mentor and long time working partner Parcells' formulated thus souring their relationship. And lets be honest, in hindsight, Woody Johnson was never going to give BB anywhere near the authority that Belichick had. Oh and considering in 2000 the Jets needed a QB so much and they used one of 4 first round picks on Chad Pennington, there was about zero chance that Belichick and Brady duo was happening. Now a team that had Drew Bledsoe, one of the better QB's in the league who already led the team to a Super Bowl.....

 

[Tony2046]

Because there's no possible middle ground between "KRAFT IS THE WORST ****ing ****er in the history of ****!!!!!!!!!"

and "ROBERT KRAFT IS LITERALLY JESUS LONG LIVE THE MESSIAH!"

You are behaving like an autistic child.

You still haven't replied to what this is supposed to mean? I suspect it's because you're a gutless punk.

Who do you apply both of those opinions to and how does an autistic child act?

For the record I have never stated either of those opinions.

The kicker is that it is you and lancer who keep twisting this conversation into an all or nothing argument.

 

[Triumph]

 

[DarrylS]

Oh great another Kraft bashing thread... "pig pile"!!!

No one has ever told me what Kraft could have done differently.. Brady's legal challenges failed, Elliot's legal challenges failed.. what makes anyone think that it would have been different for Kraft??

What good did Jerry Jones do for Elliot or for the Cowboys?? All he did was raise his pre Alzheimer profile and make a lot of noise in the press..

If Kraft ranted and raved like Jones, would that have made anything different in this legal situation?? Probably not, but for some reason bashing Kraft has some benefit for fans of this franchise...

I have suspected all along that the intended victim in these situations was BB, particularly the ideal gas law one as that could have been two and out. Goodell has a massive hard on for him, and when he knew he could not get to him he focused on Brady/Kraft...

 

[RayClay]

BB was already well known as one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL with 2 rings and another SB appearance. He was going to get another shot at HC. In fact he had one already when he chose to leave.

BB and Brady are responsible for the franchises meteoric rise. If anything Kraft owes them for the money and fame he has. But he sold them out for league politics instead.

I didn't know that Belichick was an expert in the paper industry.

 

[RayClay]

 

[RayClay]

Wah Da Ta, My Damie.

Do it for the Tippi Tais.

Sine your pitty on the runny kine.

 

[RayClay]

You missed these: 1. Although he tried to get public funding for his stadium, when that effort failed he built a state of the art stadium with his own money, except for some infrastructure costs. Other owners in similar situations have moved their teams. 2. He chose not to charge season ticket holders Permanent Seat Licenses which many owners and teams do charge. You misrepresented these: 1. Bill Belichick didn't " fall in his lap.". In fact, when Parcells abandoned his team and his job, Kraft wanted to hire Belichick then, but felt BB was too close to the Parcells regime for him to hire right after. Belichick was very eager to assume the head job at that time. While Parcells and Kraft were obviously estranged, Belichick and Kraft were not. 2. Kraft didn't "almost move to Hartford.". They were never going there. He unsuccessfully used that as leverage to get a publicly funded stadium. There's nothing wrong with criticizing Kraft for his handling of DG and his subsequent relationship with Goodell. That criticism is deserved. But, it's unfair to intentionally minimize his accomplishments as an owner, which have been significant.

Before that, He had to buy a run down race track, then buy a crappy useless stadium out of bankruptcy to put himself in position to maneuver an owner who really wanted to move to St Louis forcing him to sell. Pretty good article about how he overpaid for a parking lot, then a stadium which would have been worthless had he not used them to force an owner who wanted to buy him out and move, to sell instead.

Obviously, just a lucky shmuck.

Kraft parlays parking lots into thriving franchise

 

[Ring 6]

1.Kraft and Jones are easily two of the top 5 most powerful and influential owners in the league along with Mara, the Rooney's, and Jerry Richardson. Both of them backed down when it came to actually taking action that could dictate a break in the league. Jerry for all his talk laughed off any serious action. Maybe a joke of an owner like Dan Snyder would be dumb to enough to do that, but he's already kind of a fringe owner that's disliked and not anybody I'm interested in leading the Pats.

This is all non sense. Jones had nothing to fight. His franchise wasn’t penalized. He didn’t like how goodell handled the punishment so he tried to be a bully and stop something he already agreed to. Of course he backed down because he had no case.
Show me the owner who had money, draft picks and his greatest players reputation taken away WHEN NOTHING HAPPENED who did nothing. Other than kraft.
Filing an appeal wouldn’t break apart the league. It’s a routine procedure.

2. Because he had a different owner and he had one winning season under that owner and a single playoff win under that owner. And before you say "oh it was the Browns" the old real Browns before they became the Ravens and not the new joke version were actually a competitive team and under the same ownerwhip won a SB as the Ravens a few years after they got rid of Belichick. So yeah the owner and the coach relationship does matter. Parcells and Belichick could win in New York but Parcells and Kraft had issues and he didn't make it here, Kraft and Belichick are simpatico and it's one of the best owner/coach dynamics in the NFL.

So kraft was a bad owner for Parcells?
I give kraft credit for hiring belichick.

3. Okay well most owners aren't going to spend a draft pick on a failed coach and then give him the complete autonomy to run their team. There was a very successful owner who the SB the year before us who famously told Kraft it would be the biggest mistake of his life to hire Belichick. Let alone give him all the power he gave him. Kraft had the foresight to see Belichick's talent when he was not viewed that favorably and aggressively go after him when the opportunity came. The reality Kraft was probably the owner in the league who was going to play hardball to snatch Belichick away from the Jets. So no without Kraft you aren't having a give in of getting Belichick. Let alone letting Belichick take on a good chunk of general manager responsibilities in tandem with Scott Piolo until Pioli left in 08 and Belichick was solely responsible for it. Again name a better owner that you think would be more successful and would lead us to more success. Because in the Super Bowl era only the Rooney's as a family and Debartolo in San Francisco had as much success as owners. And Debartolo is the only one that did it in a reasonable amount of time that's comparable to us and he had a very similar coach and QB situation. It's very rare to have an owner/coach/qb triumvirate where it all works out well to the point where you have an unprecedented amount of success in this league.

Belichick has already been offered a job. Had he taken the jets would be what we are.
Kraft is not responsible for the success. He doesn’t run football.

4. Before Belichick even got there he already had the team in a Super Bowl in 96 just two years into how ownership and was responsible for 2 of the most successful coaches to have ever been on the team as far as success in the NFL before and after to come to the club. What were the Patriots doing before him? They had one half decent run in the 80's where they got creamed by the Bears at the end.

And he ran the guy who got him there off the job because he preferred Bobby Grier.

You're taking so much for a given that some other owner would have liked a failed coach in Belichick so much that they would have given a draft pick up for him and the having learned from his experiences with two previous coaches known exactly how much power and authority to give him. Not to mention the great working relationship the two have. And that somehow it manifests itself into an unprecendented run of success that nobody else has ever had to this degree.

I give kraft credit for hiring belichick. Aside from that he has been a weak and poor owner from the perspective of his franchise and a good owner in terms of making himself money.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Kraft is their only owner so yes they love him the most. They would also hate him the most too huh.

Not sure how you quantify that brady is closer to kraft. He works much closer with belichick. He relies much more on belichick. Belichick being a hc who doesn’t socialize with players doesn’t make the owners who likes to have his picture taken closer.

Haven’t you read that Brady views Kraft as a second father? Why do you think he kisses Kraft before every game?

Most men don’t kiss other men as a matter of practice. So there’s a reason he does.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Haven’t you read that Brady views Kraft as a second father? Why do you think he kisses Kraft before every game?

Most men don’t kiss other men as a matter of practice. So there’s a reason he does.

Wilfork and Krafty did the same thing.

Clearly Bob has a special relationship with VW and he does with TB12.

I'm sure DFG put a strain on their relationship but clearly it was not enough to destroy/damage their relationship.

 

[Soliel]

I’ll take a guess at that after careful thought and research.

1. Why does Brady love kraft?
My theory is that Brady views kraft as the guy who gave him this opportunity to be what he has become. I’m basing this on observation of Brady’s attitude and that coolness he has. Also based on krafts words about Tom telling him it was the best decision ever made by the pats.

2. There’s a feeling to the thread now that if kraft is so bad, why does Brady look on him as a second father?
If I were Brady, I’d have a hard time hating kraft after this whole thing. Kraft obviously believed in him and didn’t trade him over deflate gate. So, if it were me, I’d probably forgive krafts shortcoming based on the continued support, pay and livelihood etc

 

[1960Pats]

Bob Kraft, STFU about deflategate and what you did for the good of ____. By speaking you look good to many of your 6 comma NFL lodge and not good to most fans. Please just STFU about deflategate analogies/comparisons.

I prefer that Kraft keeps expressing his loyalty to Goody and the 32. That may help those confused Pats fans.

 

[Ring 6]

Haven’t you read that Brady views Kraft as a second father? Why do you think he kisses Kraft before every game?

Most men don’t kiss other men as a matter of practice. So there’s a reason he does.

No I have never heard brady refer to kraft as a second father and seriously doubt he ever has.

Wilfork started that. I don’t draw the same conclusion as you.

 

[Ring 6]

I’ll take a guess at that after careful thought and research.

1. Why does Brady love kraft?
My theory is that Brady views kraft as the guy who gave him this opportunity to be what he has become. I’m basing this on observation of Brady’s attitude and that coolness he has. Also based on krafts words about Tom telling him it was the best decision ever made by the pats.

2. There’s a feeling to the thread now that if kraft is so bad, why does Brady look on him as a second father?
If I were Brady, I’d have a hard time hating kraft after this whole thing. Kraft obviously believed in him and didn’t trade him over deflate gate. So, if it were me, I’d probably forgive krafts shortcoming based on the continued support, pay and livelihood etc

Trade him over deflategate? You would forgive him for abandoning you because he is lucky enough to have the greatest qb in history on his team?
Trade him for getting falsely accused and punished? That is nuts.

 

[Soliel]

It’s a theory bro. The question being why does Brady love kraft?

Bennett got cut over an injury. It’s not unthinkable you could be traded over some bizarre thing. Montana was traded over what again?

Read the whole thing not one sentance

 

[Ring 6]

It’s a theory bro. The question being why does Brady love kraft?

Bennett got cut over an injury. It’s not unthinkable you could be traded over some bizarre thing. Montana was traded over what again?

Read the whole thing not one sentance

A theory that Brady would be traded for doing nothing?

Montana was traded because he got injured, Steve Young stepped in and became a better qb at that stage of their careers.

I’m still trying to understand how Tom Brady would see kraft not help him with deflategate (Brady’s lawyers asked kraft to testify and he said no) then Brady should thank kraft for not trading him. Why would kraft trade the guy who brought him all of his franchises success?
It’s like saying Brady should thank Hernandez for not murdering him.