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Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

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Kraft is obviously frustrated by it, but he’s not going to publicly admit that he regrets Brady leaving. There are plenty of pieces of the blame pie.

Belichick pissed off Brady the moment his personal trainer was banned from the locker room and team plane. The drafting was mostly subpar and the next generation of cost-effective core players wasn’t there for them. Didn’t have successors to Edelman or Gronk or D-Mac or Hightower.

Also seemed to piss off Gronk, who he tried to trade to Detroit but Gronk threatened to retire and killed the deal. Gronk then waited too long to officially announce his retirement and we missed out on Jared Cook as a result.

AB messed up an opportunity of a lifetime when he wouldn’t leave the painter woman alone and asked his friends to look into her background. Be that as it may I still wish the Pats would have held on to him, even if suspended, because he was living with Brady who was trying to help his friend and new top weapon. Kraft almost certainly demanded he be cut because the subject of sexual harassment hit a little too close to home thanks to his own rub and tug sessions and didn’t want to be associated with the press AB was getting. That undoubtedly pissed off Brady too.

Fairness to Belichick, he tried to get Brady some help that year in 2019. Drafted a WR in the 1st round for the first time (faceplanted on that one, but the effort was there). Brought back Josh Gordon who had already been suspended for the millionth time. Signed Demaryius Thomas who looked good in preseason and was working closely with Brady. Signed Antonio Brown to provide an elite WR to the offense. Gave up a second rounder for Mohamed Sanu to get somebody, anybody, that could help at the trade deadline. And one by one they fell. Harry hurt in preseason. DT traded. AB cut. Flash waived. Sanu hurt. This was on top of losing Andrews to blood clots, Wynn to injury for the beginning of the year, and Develin’s career ending neck injury. There were no receivers getting open, and no running game to speak of. The frustration was palpable.

Poor timing, poor luck, poor execution. I wish Brady stayed, but I get why he didn’t. I wish AB was kept, but I get why he wasn’t. I see BB tried to draft, sign, and trade for help, but he missed the mark too many times.

Whatever though. Brady’s happy where he’s at now, good for him. I’m glad for him. But I knew sooner or later he would be gone, and I just hope we don’t have to wait too long for the next franchise QB to show himself. I trust in Belichick to find the answer. I’ve definitely been spoiled since the day Drew Bledsoe was drafted. And lastly, I don’t think Kraft is wrong necessarily in his remarks, but he’s not helping either with those remarks. Let’s not forget how little he fought to protect those picks that the commissioner’s office unfairly stole from us, time after time. Bent the knee to Goodell and let his coach and quarterback be slandered and punished. You keep losing first round picks over bogus crap and it catches up with you eventually. We can also thank Kraft Productions for us being without our 3rd rounder this year (not the comp pick but the original). As I said, plenty of blame to go around.

I agree BB tried to bet Brady help in 2019 but most of those failures rest with BB the GM.

Yes injuries can happen but lots of us were skeptical of the Gordon resigning or the DT signing. Gordon was a jump-ball guy mostly in his first season, instead of a proper route runner. And he flashed in those desperate jump-ball situations and that’s it. And we didn’t miss him in playoffs to win SB.

And the drafting for WRs and TEs remained horrifically poor.

And AB was always a high-risk signing/gamble.

And 2nd for Sanu was criminally bad. It reeked of desperation.

Yes there is plenty of blame to go around. But BB the GM hasn’t covered himself with glory in a long time.
 
Why? Outside of Brady, you're looking at:

Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Matt Cassel
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jacoby Brissett
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham
Eric Zeier


How does that inspire you to trust that BB can find another franchise QB? Is it that you're expecting him to bring in a veteran? Is it that you trust that he'll break his streak of non-franchise QBs? What's the reason behind your confidence?
Belichick made the right call in moving on from our previous face of the franchise Bledsoe and ushering in the Brady era. Brady has spoiled us to the point where we haven’t really had to worry that much about changing of the guard at quarterback until just last year. But I felt Belichick deserves credit for Cassel (never started at USC and ended up being a net positive for us, starting all of 2008 and, along with giving up Vrabel, getting us a 2nd round pick out of him). And I still believe Garoppolo could have been a worthy successor to Brady had it come to that years back. Still think he can be. If not him, perhaps a trade up for the Lions pick at 7th overall and get a guy like Fields. Belichick is no Ron Wolf when it comes to scouting for QB’s but I trust he’ll find the next guy soon enough. And if not then that’s on him and I’ll just eat crow.
 

Devin McCourty was drafted as a CB and was a Pro Bowler and All-Pro selection his rookie year, and was our top CB for the 2011 AFC championship team. Converted to FS where he’s been one of the best of his generation and one of the greatest Patriots of all-time. Not a long term CB obviously but that pick worked out.

Logan Ryan was drafted as a CB but played all over the secondary. Was a quality CB2 for us including the 2016 Super Bowl winning season. He’s carved out a solid career for himself since leaving, making $10m a year the last four years and just signed a 3-year extension with the Giants. We could’ve kept him but he priced himself out of our range.

Julian Edelman is one of the greatest playoff performers in NFL history and a Patriots legend. Safe to say he’s been the last good WR draft pick, and yes it’s still been a long time since then.

You’re absolutely right that the drafting at WR and CB has sucked for a long time, but Branch and Samuel weren’t the last good picks at their positions.

Thanks I should have prefaced by saying high picks.
1. I think McCourty/Ryan was more blind luck that 2 Rutgers guys had good coaching from either Schiano or someone over there on defense. They busted so many other CB picks I think it was some luck with 2 Rutgers guys.
2. Edelman was a 7th rounder and they also developed UDFA like Meyers , JC Jackson , and Malcoln Butler. So clearly BB is still a goat coach, and they can weed out UDFA garbage and find diamonds. It's the CB/WR scouting of higher draft picks which is absolutely broken.
3. We shouldn't burn any more high offensive picks if the same John Carroll morons who thought NKeal Harry, Aaron Dobson, Tim Tebow, Chad Jackson were great prospects and are still chiming in on the draft.

.
 
. Belichick is no Ron Wolf when it comes to scouting for QB’s but I trust he’ll find the next guy soon enough. And if not then that’s on him.

But the Pats have Eliot Wolf, Ron's son here. We should have him run the talent acquisition. No more John Carroll morons wrecking our talent pipeline.
 
Thanks I should have prefaced by saying high picks.
1. I think McCourty/Ryan was more blind luck that 2 Rutgers guys had good coaching from either Schiano or someone over there on defense. They busted so many other CB picks I think it was some luck with 2 Rutgers guys.
2. Edelman was a 7th rounder and they also developed UDFA like Meyers , JC Jackson , and Malcoln Butler. So clearly BB is still a goat coach, and they can weed out UDFA garbage and find diamonds. It's the CB/WR scouting of higher draft picks which is absolutely broken.
3. We shouldn't burn any more high offensive picks if the same John Carroll morons who thought NKeal Harry, Aaron Dobson, Tim Tebow, Chad Jackson were great prospects and are still chiming in on the draft.

.
I think it comes down to who BB is trusting his information from. Urban Meyer did him no favors that’s for certain. The Rutgers obsession was because his son went there, but that worked out fairly well if you include Harmon as well.
 
But the Pats have Eliot Wolf, Ron's son here. We should have him run the talent acquisition. No more John Carroll morons wrecking our talent pipeline.
I was just thinking about him too. I’d like to see Wolf get more say. Or at very least get his dad on the line during the draft!
 
Rohan Davey 4th round
Kliff Kingsbury 6th round
Matt Cassel 7th round
Kevin O'Connell 3rd round
Zac Robinson 7th round
Ryan Mallett 3rd round
Jimmy Garoppolo 2nd round
Jacoby Brissett 3rd round
Danny Etling 7th round
Jarrett Stidham 4th round
Eric Zeier 3rd round - in 1995

4 have had okay NFL careers, given their draft status. A couple never got a chance playing behind the GOAT. Until that Mallett/Garoppolo/Brissett run, was he looking for a replacement or a project?

I mean, are you saying the 6th and 7th rounders should be expected to become NFL quarterbacks?
 
Look who's back ...

Oh joy.

I’ve not gone anywhere, I am constantly muted/censored for your virgin ears.

If I create a new thread criticisizing BB it gets locked/deleted.

If I post a critcism in any other thread, I get muted/locked from posting in it. Just me, not the whole thread. E.g. I cannot post in the thread “Belichick rated #1 of all GM's in Expensive FA Signings” since I posted in it critisizing BB.

Mods are very concerned your virgin ears are protected from my blasphemy.

I am waiting to be muted from this thread too. Enjoy your fake/censored discussion.
 
Belichick made the right call in moving on from our previous face of the franchise Bledsoe and ushering in the Brady era. Brady has spoiled us to the point where we haven’t really had to worry that much about changing of the guard at quarterback until just last year. But I felt Belichick deserves credit for Cassel (never started at USC and ended up being a net positive for us, starting all of 2008 and, along with giving up Vrabel, getting us a 2nd round pick out of him). And I still believe Garoppolo could have been a worthy successor to Brady had it come to that years back. Still think he can be. If not him, perhaps a trade up for the Lions pick at 7th overall and get a guy like Fields. Belichick is no Ron Wolf when it comes to scouting for QB’s but I trust he’ll find the next guy soon enough. And if not then that’s on him and I’ll just eat crow.
It's a long shot - I don't care who the GM is. There are 32 teams in the NFL - how many have the "next guy"?

What gives me some hope is that the system and talent level of a team matters a lot to a rookie QB. I don't think Mahomes would be where he is in a crap system. He'd always flash that talent sure (like 4-game winner Deshaun Watson did last year), but he wouldn't be the face of the NFL.
 
A 6th round Tom Brady is a once in a 2 or 3 decade chance.

It'd be dumb trying that again...
 
Why? Outside of Brady, you're looking at:

Rohan Davey
Kliff Kingsbury
Matt Cassel
Kevin O'Connell
Zac Robinson
Ryan Mallett
Jimmy Garoppolo
Jacoby Brissett
Danny Etling
Jarrett Stidham
Eric Zeier


How does that inspire you to trust that BB can find another franchise QB? Is it that you're expecting him to bring in a veteran? Is it that you trust that he'll break his streak of non-franchise QBs? What's the reason behind your confidence?

Maybe if you did some research so that you knew what the f*ck you are talking about, you wouldn’t have to ask these type of questions.

Here is data from Pro Football Reference, spanning 2005-2014. In red, I have circled the likelihood of finding a starting QB based upon the round. The shows how ridiculously hard it is to find a starting QB after the first round. After the 3rd round it is virtually impossible.



Given that he inherited a franchise QB in Bledsoe and then stole the eventual GOAT QB his very first as head coach of the Pats, Belichick had no reason to ever draft a QB in the first round, until the 2020 offseason, so AT BEST he had a ~25% chance of finding a starting QB.

He accomplished the nearly impossible feat in finding Cassel in the 7th. He took one shot in the (late) second and picked a starter in Jimmy G. Finally, he picked Brissett in the late 3rd round, where the chances of finding a starter are less than 1 in 5 and he started 32 games over the first 5 years of his career (no, he obviously isn’t a franchise guy but he was still a successful late day 2 pick). Stidham looks like a miss but there was less than a 1 in 10 chance that he was going to end up a starter. He was good value where they took him, based upon his freshman and junior year production and his natural talent as a passer.

In summary, we SHOULD have confidence that Bill will pick the right guy in the draft. Show me another GM who has had more success picking QBs after round 1 over the past 20+ years.

Here endith another lesson
 
Rohan Davey 4th round
Kliff Kingsbury 6th round
Matt Cassel 7th round
Kevin O'Connell 3rd round
Zac Robinson 7th round
Ryan Mallett 3rd round
Jimmy Garoppolo 2nd round
Jacoby Brissett 3rd round
Danny Etling 7th round
Jarrett Stidham 4th round
Eric Zeier 3rd round - in 1995

4 have had okay NFL careers, given their draft status. A couple never got a chance playing behind the GOAT. Until that Mallett/Garoppolo/Brissett run, was he looking for a replacement or a project?

I mean, are you saying the 6th and 7th rounders should be expected to become NFL quarterbacks?
Since I'm the one who put out the list, I'll assume (risky, I know) this question is for me. So I'll answer it by pointing out the obvious:


The context was that someone was claiming confidence in the ability of BB to find the next franchise QB:

Whatever though. Brady’s happy where he’s at now, good for him. I’m glad for him. But I knew sooner or later he would be gone, and I just hope we don’t have to wait too long for the next franchise QB to show himself. I trust in Belichick to find the answer.


Outside of Brady, he's never drafted one, as the list shows. And the list was followed with this group of questions, none of which were of the "gotcha!" variety:

How does that inspire you to trust that BB can find another franchise QB? Is it that you're expecting him to bring in a veteran? Is it that you trust that he'll break his streak of non-franchise QBs? What's the reason behind your confidence?

So, if you actually want to jump in, that's where we were at.
 
Yes injuries can happen but lots of us were skeptical of the Gordon resigning or the DT signing.
I liked the DT signing as a stop gap but still wanted to inject youth via the draft.
Gordon was a jump-ball guy mostly in his first season, instead of a proper route runner. And he flashed in those desperate jump-ball situations and that’s it. And we didn’t miss him in playoffs to win SB.
Spot on. And I was done with him after he quit on the team in 2018. Bill shouldn't have re-signed him and I'm guessing all the veterans Bill signed in FA is why he only drafted Harry.
Belichick made the right call in moving on from our previous face of the franchise Bledsoe and ushering in the Brady era.
I was a young 19 year old at the time and was a Bledsoe guy. I wanted him to get his job back when he was healthy and felt bad the way he lost his job, but Brady earned it. They had to trade him after they won the Super Bowl that year.
along with giving up Vrabel, getting us a 2nd round pick out of him).
He was included in the Cassel deal. And he was awful in 2008. He and Bruschi were kicked to the curb which I'm sure upset them back then.
Belichick is no Ron Wolf when it comes to scouting for QB’s but I trust he’ll find the next guy soon enough.
Belichick found the GOAT which he wins in my book.
 
Since I'm the one who put out the list, I'll assume (risky, I know) this question is for me. So I'll answer it by pointing out the obvious:


The context was that someone was claiming confidence in the ability of BB to find the next franchise QB:
Sure, but half those picks were flyers...or for back-ups who weren't really expected to play. And two others were from a different era (96 and 02).
 
Sure, but half those picks were flyers...or for back-ups who weren't really expected to play. And two others were from a different era (96 and 02).
And? How does that, in even the smallest way, change the questions? I mean, do we then dismiss Brady? He was a 6th round pick, after all, and before '02, as well.


You seem to be rushing to defend BB on a record that's not under attack.
 
And? How does that, in even the smallest way, change the questions? I mean, do we then dismiss Brady? He was a 6th round pick, after all, and before '02, as well.


You seem to be rushing to defend BB on a record that's not under attack.
No, just adding context. There's nothing there to dissuade me from thinking that BB can find the right QB if he spends some capital on the effort.
 
No, just adding context. There's nothing there to dissuade me from thinking that BB can find the right QB if he spends some capital on the effort.

To repeat the questions, then:


How does that inspire you to trust that BB can find another franchise QB? Is it that you're expecting him to bring in a veteran? Is it that you trust that he'll break his streak of non-franchise QBs? What's the reason behind your confidence?
 
To repeat the questions, then:


How does that inspire you to trust that BB can find another franchise QB? Is it that you're expecting him to bring in a veteran? Is it that you trust that he'll break his streak of non-franchise QBs? What's the reason behind your confidence?

To repeat my answer, then:

I don't know that it does, but it certainly doesn't dissuade me.

That is what was clearly implied in your posts. When BB was looking for a replacement and not just a backup, he picked Garoppolo. Garoppolo was picked 5th among QBs that year, late second round, and was arguably the 2nd best of the draft (if he had stayed remotely healthy, he's possibly the best that year). Carr is inconsistent and Bridgewater is meh, at best.

Your list was an easy one to compile for any team to make any GM look bad. Teams take flyers on QBs all the time, and a QB either hits (which can even mean perennial backup status) or busts. Go look at any year in the draft and sort by position to just see the QBs. There are usually around a dozen. Take out the 1st-rounders - and until they started looking for Brady's replacement, the Pats wouldn't go higher than the 3rd - and almost every name thereafter can go on such a list.

I don't know that any GM can pick a QB better than another. They'll each look for the qualities they want, the type of QB who best fits what they want to do - slinger, game-manager, dual-threat - and roll the dice.

I simply put in the rounds to add context. The Pats were taking flyers on low picks, nothing more. The one time they looked hard, they came up with Jimmy in the late second - in a class with Carr, Bridgewater, and no one else close to him.
 
Poor timing, poor luck, poor execution. I wish Brady stayed, but I get why he didn’t. I wish AB was kept, but I get why he wasn’t. I see BB tried to draft, sign, and trade for help, but he missed the mark too many times.
Well stated - not black and white, one or the other approach but factoring in of multiple causal and contributing aspects.
 
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