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Just saying Broncos fans....


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Wins are the most incorrect way to judge a player's talent level. It's like judging a starting pitcher by Wins rather than all the other more important numbers.

Wins have more to do with the TEAM around you. Not just your individual abilities.

Elway is closer to Bledsoe's ability as a QB than he is to Brady's ability as a QB, and honestly there's really no debate there.

Is Trend Dilfer better than Marino cause he won a Superbowl? Negative.

People need to stop judging players talents off of just wins.

The point is to win. Over the course of a career QBs are going to have similar talent levels surrounding them, essentially elimiating the 'team around them' argument over career. Almost every single QB in the GOAT argument was drafted by a terrible team.
The Dilfer/Marino argument is silly, because you are talking about 1 game. Over their careers, that argument doesnt enter the discussion.

Its interesting, however, that if you look at Marino's career he supposedly gets bonus points for winning with no one around him, yet gets a pass for playing poorly in almost every playoff loss. If he gets extra credit for the team around him (which by the way is wrong because he had good teams around him) then why is he not accountable for the poor playoff performances?

I saw the cumulative stats of the last game of the season for Marino. (ie playoff loss or last regular season game of a nonplayoff season--i believe of those were losses when they would have gotten in with a win) and his numbers were horrendous, in fact worse than Dilfer. More picks than Ints, something like 16 ppg, just awful QB play. It has always amazed me that Marino is supposed to be considered great but no one ever expected him to play great to lead his team to a title.
 
7-17

Staubach
Young
Manning
Elway
Marino
Favre
Bradshaw
Jurgensen
Tittle
Van Brocklin
Luckman

There's probably one or two I've missed, but I think we're pretty much looking at a solid top 20 no matter who you add in after that, as long as it's reasonable. Gotta figure a guy like Brees will be in the discussion for those next 3 spots, especially if he has a good postseason, for example.


Just my take... Others' mileage may vary.

Aikman always gets left out of these, and he belongs. Jim Kelly too.
I think YA doesn't belong in this group.
Dan Fouts deserves mention too, as we are extending beyond the area where winning separates them. Moon and Terkenton as well.
Hard to include old timers like Luckman and Van Brocklin and leave on Fran.
 
This happened to me this week:

While liberally imbibing a tankard of liquid barley and hops a few days ago at a Casper, Wyoming bar, I overheard an interesting conversation between a couple of local Broncos disciples concerning a certain St. Timothy Tebow and whether or not he would sink if he tried to cross the Platte River on foot. Showing great wisdom the two gents quickly recognized the absurdity of the question by answering that St. Timothy would not have to walk across the water as he could merely part it and reach the other side by walking on the dry river bed....

....but what really roused a certain ire in me was the comparisons they were making between the newcomer, St. Timothy, and certain other tried and true great apostles like St. Joseph Montana and a certain St. Thomas Brady...

.....well, not being one to stand for that sort of blasphemy, and emboldened by the barley and hops, I shoved my stool aside, wiped my face with the sleeve of my Patriots jacket, and strolled over to the two infidels to show them the error of their ways: worshiping false idols, etc....

....er...ummm...well, lucky for those two that right at that very moment a vision of St. Thomas Brady appeared from above on the widescreen TV which momentarily paralyzed me with wonder and awe as I saw His manly visage in all its glory and listened to His words (It was a rebroadcast of The Brady 6). Well, upon recovering my senses, I boldly continued toward the two idolators.... but to my amazement discovered that they had fled at the first sight of St. Thomas, His countenance too terrible to behold, His words piercing their very hearts....

....and so I went back to my pew in that little church of a bar in Casper, Wyoming and drank lustily another round (or two) in praise of St. Thomas, who has proven in deeds his worth and might, and reveals the foolishness of prematurely extolling the johnny-come-latelys of this world...
 
This happened to me this week:

While liberally imbibing a tankard of liquid barley and hops a few days ago at a Casper, Wyoming bar, I overheard an interesting conversation between a couple of local Broncos disciples concerning a certain St. Timothy Tebow and whether or not he would sink if he tried to cross the Platte River on foot. Showing great wisdom the two gents quickly recognized the absurdity of the question by answering that St. Timothy would not have to walk across the water as he could merely part it and reach the other side by walking on the dry river bed....

....but what really roused a certain ire in me was the comparisons they were making between the newcomer, St. Timothy, and certain other tried and true great apostles like St. Joseph Montana and a certain St. Thomas Brady...


.....well, not being one to stand for that sort of blasphemy, and emboldened by the barley and hops, I shoved my stool aside, wiped my face with the sleeve of my Patriots jacket, and strolled over to the two infidels to show them the error of their ways: worshiping false idols, etc....

....er...ummm...well, lucky for those two that right at that very moment a vision of St. Thomas Brady appeared from above on the widescreen TV which momentarily paralyzed me with wonder and awe as I saw His manly visage in all its glory and listened to His words (It was a rebroadcast of The Brady 6). Well, upon recovering my senses, I boldly continued toward the two idolators.... but to my amazement discovered that they had fled at the first sight of St. Thomas, His countenance too terrible to behold, His words piercing their very hearts....

....and so I went back to my pew in that little church of a bar in Casper, Wyoming and drank lustily another round (or two) in praise of St. Thomas, who has proven in deeds his worth and might, and reveals the foolishness of prematurely extolling the johnny-come-latelys of this world...

and then what happened?
 
I agree with most of what you are saying, but you cannot simply count the number of wins, ignore win percentage, and postseason, and call it a day.
While the stats posted seem to lead to the conclusion the OP wanted, its a silly point that ignores the changes in era, rules, etc.
But to say the second most wins is a finite argument is just as silly.
Wins are by far the most overrated way to look at a QB. Teams win games, not quarterbacks.
 
Wins are by far the most overrated way to look at a QB. Teams win games, not quarterbacks.

How would the Patriots be this year without Brady?

With that defense New England has I would predict that you would be talking about other teams in the playoffs not the Patriots.

Look what happened to the Colts. I agree that it's a team game but the QB is by far the most important position on the field.
 
Wins are by far the most overrated way to look at a QB. Teams win games, not quarterbacks.

The point of playing is to win. Over the course of a career all good QBs end up with similar talent around them. Your point holds in a narrow view, like 1 game or season, but not in the overall view. Almost every great QB started his career on a terrible team and was the impetus for the team becoming good. Its doubtful you could come up with a handful of examples that don't fit that. The QB has more to do with winning or losing than any player. The real separation among good QBs is clutch play that determines wins or losses.
What do you want to use?Stats? Stats accumulated in a loss are meaningless.
Until they change the rules to where statistics determine the winner, statistically judging players is flawed at best.
 
Are you kidding? Elway is a deity in Denver. They don't realize that they won their SBs because of Terrell Davis and not Elway.

We won because of a balanced attack, a good offensive line, and an aggressive defense.
 
We won because of a balanced attack, a good offensive line, and an aggressive defense.

You left out, We won because of Terrell Davis, oh yeah and also......
 
AWESOME!!! thanks for adding that. Hopefully this will shut them up and get them off this board.

I'd suggest to you all that you temper the overconfidence and arrogance that I'm seeing here.

I saw similar a week ago on Steelers Fever Forums. After they ate a serving of crow, they began deleting and altering my posts.

Just sayin'.

:bricks:
 
Are you kidding? Elway is a deity in Denver. They don't realize that they won their SBs because of Terrell Davis and not Elway.

really ? i could say something about spygate. but ill leave it alone.
 
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AWESOME!!! thanks for adding that. Hopefully this will shut them up and get them off this board.

you should live in Colorado...these people are so over the top. Hopefully we win and shut them up for the year.
 
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