Joejuan Williams moving to safety

[Deus Irae]

Because Devin McCourty got an opportunity to start from week 1 and JoeJuan Williams is behind the best CB duo in the league. So I guess my point is, the Patriots clearly had a plan for McCourty to be their top CB whereas with Williams you can't tell if maybe he just lost out to better CBs on the roster (which is not really a knock on him) or if he was drafted with the intent of playing him at safety

Williams didn't start because he wasn't good enough to start. That doesn't mean the team didn't have a plan for him. He was the guy who was going to defend the tall WRs coming into the league. If the team had drafted him to play safety, he'd have been playing safety.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I am not really an Xs and Os guy, but didn't we play a lot of Cover 0 last year? Most in the league? That means no safety help is my understanding. Therefore D McCourty was a CB when we go Cover 0. So if Williams is a safety, he also has to be a CB at times. I do not think there is ever a game when a player is only a safety.

BB likes to redshirt rookies, even the good ones. Harris, Williams, Cowart were all pretty much redshirted. I do not think that reflects on their talent, just BB's philosophy. So the Pats taught Williams how to cover last year while redshirting him, and moved him to safety this year. No reflection on his talent yet.

Will be interesting this year because I do not think BB can redshirt the rookie LBs or TEs. We need them to play because we do not have anyone else. But it goes against BB's philosophy, so we will see. Winovich played quite a bit last year, so BB does let some rookies play.

We also discussed the 3 and 4 safety defense against 3 TEs like the Ravens and Bucs who both have 3 capable TEs. With Williams, McCourty, Phillips and Dugger we have the flexibility. Chung is back next year but you have to plan for at least 1 injury. So the 3 or 4 safety formation will be fun to watch for to cover the multiple TE formations (maybe with a RB too), and counter the RPO.

They're still S just no one deep/help over the top. Basically everyone is a M2M defender.

 

[Ivan]

Positional flexibility has always been a priority for Belichick, and working Williams with the safeties provides that for him. That said it never ceases to amaze me how fast so many here are ready to label young players as “ busts.”

 

[WinstonSmith]

Williams didn't start because he wasn't good enough to start. That doesn't mean the team didn't have a plan for him. He was the guy who was going to defend the tall WRs coming into the league. If the team had drafted him to play safety, he'd have been playing safety.

Or it could be as simple as Bill liked Williams as a football player whose height and skill sets could be utilized at S and possibly CB. He got his feet wet at CB, and Bill decided that S was a more natural position for him.

 

[n6249c]

How is it a groundless search? Doing 90 in a 70 zone, so he was pulled over for speeding, as soon as his window goes down, the cop smells the pot and bingo, it is probably cause and a legal search. A significant amount of pot is going to be I’m guesssing a kilo plus. Plus Tennessee and not San Francisco.

All of that is going to lead to a conviction.

You’re assuming there was something for the cop to smell, but if the weed is packed away that’s not likely. JJ is smart enough to not be tokingss he drives. Even though cop will certainly claim it was that and not just a black dude with dreads driving an expensive whip through rural Appalachia, but really he took one look at the car and driver and thought “bingo”. That kind of profiling doesn’t stand up as probable cause these days. Maybe in a few more years if the erosion of the Constitution continues, but not yet. So just keep hoping.

And “significant amount” is a ******** PR term to grab attention and support headlines and make it sound bad to naive readers. It’ll turn out to be enough for personal use on a weekend not kilos or tons like the phrase suggests. That’s how they play the public to get more funding and make what they do seem more important than due process.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Or it could be as simple as Bill liked Williams as a football player whose height and skill sets could be utilized at S and possibly CB. He got his feet wet at CB, and Bill decided that S was a more natural position for him.

This makes perfect sense. Bb uses williams red shirt year to teach him the CB position and then puts him in his natural position which is safety, knowing Williams has positional flexibility to be used in an emergency.

 

[mgteich]

Or it could be as simple as Bill liked Williams as a football player whose height and skill sets could be utilized at S and possibly CB. He got his feet wet at CB, and Bill decided that S was a more natural position for him.

Yes.

And, in 2020, we have 4 corners who would be ahead of Williams. If he were "labelled" a corner and restricted to corner, he would get very few reps. There is more need and opportunity at safety.

 

[luuked]

I am not really an Xs and Os guy, but didn't we play a lot of Cover 0 last year? Most in the league? That means no safety help is my understanding. Therefore D McCourty was a CB when we go Cover 0. So if Williams is a safety, he also has to be a CB at times. I do not think there is ever a game when a player is only a safety.

Bingo. It is almost like it makes more sense to refer to safeties and CBs as DBs in many of the coverages that we are playing.

That is unless you belong to the AndyJohnson-esque crowd who keeps arguing someone is explicitly a safety because his designations says so even if he has more snaps from CB and LB positions in a game. Which makes as much sense as referring to players like Fleming as TE just because he came on as jumbo TE to run block.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Are we really debating whether Williams "failed" at corner? What a stupid ass take. We really have no idea how good he is at corner because our depth chart is so absurdly stacked at that position, whereas we really don't have more than 1 true starter at safety. It's about putting your best players on the field.

I agree... though I will add that you've been around long enough to know that this is how it goes around here here.

 

[Sfpat]

You mean a rookie comes to a veteran team with the best defensive backfield in the league and has a hard time getting reps? Who would have thunk it? It's not like the Pats are the Jets.

 

[captain stone]

Trying to rationalize yet another of Billy's Day 2 feck-ups...it is to laugh...

 

[Wozzy]

When Edelman didn't leapfrog the depth chart over Branch, Moss and Welker his first four years it was because he sucked... then one night the talent fairy came through his window while he was sleeping and sprinkled talent dust on him... the rest is history.

Sounds legit...

 

[Ross12]

Or it could be as simple as Bill liked Williams as a football player whose height and skill sets could be utilized at S and possibly CB. He got his feet wet at CB, and Bill decided that S was a more natural position for him.

Makes sense. I mean, Devin McCourty started as a CB too before becoming a really great safety. Obviously Joejuan is no Devin at this stage. Have to wonder if starting as a CB gives you a bit of a leg up in understanding how to help your CBs as a safety.

 

[mgteich]

Is all this discussion because as the #5 CB on the roster, he would be get no reps, and it possible that he might get some reps safety, even if he is the #4 safety. I'm 100% fine with listing Bethel as the #5 CB; that position is often allocated to a top Ster. We then have 5-6 safety position, including STer Davis.

 

[Wozzy]

Waste of a pick, bust... or Billy's Day 2 feck-up




He was always a safety, last year they didn't need a safety.

 

[jmt57]

Waste of a pick, bust... or Billy's Day 2 feck-up




He was always a safety, last year they didn't need a safety.

Are you unaware of the age of the Pats' safeties, McCourty or MIA Chung?

Have you read the comments you cited as evidence for Williams being a bust?

 

[Wozzy]

Are you unaware of the age of the Pats' safeties, McCourty or MIA Chung?

Have you read the comments you cited as evidence for Williams being a bust?

Last year the Patriots had the #1 defense in the NFL along with the #1 pass defense, I'm sure JoeJuan wasn't desperately needed last year.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If Phillips and Williams can both play a hybrid safety/linebacker role for this team, then that is a huge help with coverage on running backs and tight ends!

 

[Patsgofor4]

He's a bust on defense like NKeal Harry on offense.
Hasn't done anything in multiple years. He's injury prone like Rivers, also on his way out.

 

[farn]

If McCourty was as good of a CB as people on here say, BB would've found a way to move him back to CB.

I'm surprised (not surprised) this is even being debated.

This might be true (if he had been...)

Are you open to the following possibility :

*Once DMac changed to safety, the impact he made on D was such that with (1) lowered $ for safeties (2) a League changing towards more DBs in on most plays (3) his awareness of what opponents were doing - all made BB see that regardless of « if DMac could return to CB » that it made more sense to keep him at FS ?