JG trade story: Patriots tried

[long distance]

I also think one has to consider if the previous Brady back-ups were drafted as potential future franchise QBs like Jimmy was. Perhaps we can have some confidence that BB could find and develop a similar QB if used sufficient draft capital.

Great point. I was just going to post the same in the draft forum.

Its a different mindset if you're drafting insurance, back-up or your next starting QB esp. in BB drafting process. Of course you always hope you can coach them up to the highest level but BBs draft rules seem to be quite clear.

Acc. to Lombardi their grading system that they devised in CLE and brought to NE was not numerical but went IIRC: starter, potential starter, situational/rotational player, back-up. Caserio is now talking about numerical grades so maybe he changed things lately (still nobody is allowed to use round grades).

They drafted 9 QBs after Brady and I guess its safe to say most of them were tagged with back-up grade considering not only where they were picked but also situation in which they were picked. So “projecting“ success of Patriot's drafting and grooming their future QB would be better based on what they were able to do with Garoppolo than to the average success w their QB drafting history.

These are pure speculations of course but JG might be the only QB BB ever drafted with straight “starter“ tag (w possible exception of Mallet). They didn't have a need at QB when they drafted him and Lombardi says they were sure HOU would take him before them so when he fell they were excited to pull the trigger. Despite the no need situation Garoppolo is BBs highest QB pick.

According to Lombardi the Patriots rated Mallett as best QB available in 2011 draft yet they pulled the trigger only in the 3rd round and only with their 5th selection that yr (after six other QBs were selected beforehand). He didn't work out too good for anybody as a starter.

Pats enter next draft with QB as a pretty big need if they want to develop him under TB and possibly Josh. Id guess this time they will be willing to pull the trigger on their guy much faster. Id guess (and hope) they have “starter“ + “fit“ grade on one or two guys already and the mid-season trade was probably made also with this in mind. The fact they didn't invest it before deadline could suggest the same. They have the draft capital they didn't have for a long time. They can very much control the 2nd round and jump up if need be.

All this gives some reason for optimism. But they will need luck as well.
____

ps
Brady of course was a separate story. He is no accidental hero for BB despite low selection. They were high on him unlike rest of the league just that they had overload at QB position already and plenty big holes across the roster . Here a good short reminder of how that really went:
How the Patriots landed future Hall of Famer Tom Brady, the biggest steal in NFL Draft history

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yes, I used the wrong phrase. Brian fart. It does not invalidate my argument. You know what my point was. If Bill and the Pats are so much better at evaluating QB talent than the rest of the league at least one of the QB's they drafted over the last 17 years would have gone on to have moderate success somewhere else, no? Yet that has not happened. Turns out their track record at drafting QBs in round 2 or later is about the same as the rest of league. Somehow it will be better in the bottom of round one before they bottom out and start picking in the top ten again? Which is still basically a crapshoot. They are QB drafting geniuses yet waited until round 6 to use a throwaway pick on the GOAT after picking six JAGS and flat out busts. You make no sense.

The delusional arrogance to think that somehow the Patriots will just magically, effortlessly pluck a competent starting QB out of the college ranks once Brady finishes, even thought it is the hardest thing to do in football, is a perfect example of why so many people hate us. Sure, jealousy is a big reason. But a close second is the insufferable arrogance and delusion of our fan base. We are turning in the 1990s Yankees fan base.

Not for nothin' (although in this scenario, nearly nothin') but 2018 is supposedly a talented QB crop. I dunno if that's true and don't follow college ball. But if nothing else we can get another youngster to nip at TFB's heels.

Plus then we can talk about the "CLIFF" for another 3 years. And he can put us all in our place with 3 more rings. Then he can sing this at his state-of-the-art in-home karaoke bar.

 

[captain stone]

...According to Lombardi the Patriots rated Mallett as best QB available in 2011 draft...

If true, then there was/is a serious flaw in their evaluation process, as if we didn't already know that. 2011 was the same draft year, after all, that Bill thought that Glas-IR Dowling was worthy of the 33rd overall pick.

 

[long distance]

If true, then there was/is a serious flaw in their evaluation process, as if we didn't already know that. 2011 was the same draft year, after all, that Bill thought that Glas-IR Dowling was worthy of the 33rd overall pick.

Not necessarily. Looking who was there that year and what they accomplished they were not too far off w Mallett. They did use only their 5th selection and one shouldn't be too surprised if they weren't high on Cam..

 

[long distance]

From Schefter via Patspulpit

“I think a lot of this, also, some of this had to do with the fact that Bill Belichick has as much respect as he does for John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan,” Schefter said on KNBR’s Murph & Mac. “When he looked at it, he could have traded Jimmy Garoppolo anywhere. Cleveland was dying for Jimmy Garoppolo.”

“He [Belichick] made the decision to trade him to those two particular individuals with the idea that he would not be in the Patriots’ conference,” Schefter added, “with the idea that they would not turn around and decide to go another direction and trade him to the Jets or Bills or Dolphins or a quarterback-needed AFC East division because of the relationships between the sides.”


full article:
Schefter: Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppolo to get him out of the AFC, respect for 49ers leadership

 

[dafoe2016]

I don't think he understands that the most a team has won in 51 years is 6 and it took them from 1975-2009 to do it. So basically you are saying you would rather have a top 5 QB (which statistically at best gets you 1 or 0 Super Bowls) over winning half the record and more than double our current count is.

If you told me Brady wins one more next year then retires, I take that hoping on Jimmy.

But for posterity sake let's say Jimmy becomes top 5. Only 3 QB's have more than 3 Super Bowls. Tom Brady 5, Joe Montana 4, Terry Bradshaw 4. Then Aikman has 3 and Eli 2, Ben 2, Peyton 2, Plunkett 2, Starr 2, Griese 2, Staubach 2, Elway 2.

So you wouldn't take an automatic 3 Super Bowls when only 3 guys in the history of the league have ever outproduced that number? That's crazy. Hell you tell me Brady only gets you one more and retires next year, I still take that gaurantee over hoping Jimmy becomes one of the 12 QB's in history that maybe wins multiple Super Bowls.

Actually, there are a few teams that won more than 6 if you count before the merger.

GB (12) CHI (9) CLV (8) NYG (8)

 

[lancerman]

Actually, there are a few teams that won more than 6 if you count before the merger.

GB (12) CHI (9) CLV (8) NYG (8)

Which is not a metric anybody goes by. And it was a different league with half of the teams. Winning pre merger was like the equivalent to winning the conference title in the decade prior to the first Super Bowl, and the league was a glorified club sport before that.

 

[zipster9]

JG will do fine with Niners as they will build around him.

As for the Patriots, the 2018 draft might have NC State Ryan Finley, QB as a candidate. It will take 2-3 yrs to shape a rookie.

He might interest NE as he is poised in pocket, quick release and does not throw many INTs.
He could be had in 2nd-3rd round.

 

[captain stone]

Actually, there are a few teams that won more than 6 if you count before the merger.

GB (12) CHI (9) CLV (8) NYG (8)

Which is not a metric anybody goes by. And it was a different league with half of the teams. Winning pre merger was like the equivalent to winning the conference title in the decade prior to the first Super Bowl, and the league was a glorified club sport before that.

I'm not going to underestimate the champions pre-merger who, after all, merely played the teams on their schedules. I do wish that the NFL, like MLB in the days of 8- and 10-team leagues, had gone to 4-team PO formats much earlier than they did.
Besides, I don't know if Chuck Bednarik or Jim Brown would agree that the NFL was a glorified club sport before the SB.

 

[lancerman]

I'm not going to underestimate the champions pre-merger who, after all, merely played the teams on their schedules. I do wish that the NFL, like MLB in the days of 8- and 10-team leagues, had gone to 4-team PO formats much earlier than they did.
Besides, I don't know if Chuck Bednarik or Jim Brown would agree that the NFL was a glorified club sport before the SB.

I'm going to underestimate them. In the years immediately before the pre merger and NFL and AFL title were essentially the same as winning the conference championship game. There was a whole other league that people viewed as a viable alternative. It's the whole reason the Super Bowl even happened. Yes they played the teams on their schedule, but a pre merger NFL championship was not the equivalent of a Super Bowl. Once the Super Bowl was formed an undisputed title was formed. That has more meaning at the end of the day.

Are we going to start counting the Packers title's in the 20's and 30's when their were 12 teams in the league, only 3 of which still exist, and the champion was determined by best regular season record? When it was basically a club sport?

It's not even close to the same. In the 50's and 60's it was a bigger. But the 20's 30's and 40's it was a sports club at best. And in the 50's and 60's their were viable alternative leagues held on the same level as the NFL. Hell the early NFL teams would play college all star teams and actually lose to them.

 

[long distance]

 

[captain stone]

So basically it was exactly as Adam Schefter described back in April: Garoppolo wasn't going anywhere unless they were blown away by an offer, which must have never come.