Jason LaCanfora: Pats really want Higgins "He's going to New England"

[mgteich]

I said that partially in jest, I like Booty and think that he will have a very good year.

yup. it is reasonable to expect/hope that Boutte to have a very good year as our #3 WR.

 

[mgteich]

I am guessing he will tell them to kick rocks for preventing him from finally hitting the open market, yet again, and that he refuses to sign or play on the tag. He will sit out all the way up til week 10 if needed and then only play 8 games, still get his money from the Bengals, and then hit the open market next year. The Bengals, knowing this is the eventual outcome and only getting 8 games from him on the backend won't really benefit the team much, will eventually rescind the tag or otherwise trade his rights for a (future) 3rd round pick.

yup and Higgins may have someone bidding for him in July when he is waived by CIN, and just maybe he will get money equal to the franchise tag.

 

[mgteich]

I think that’s bad business, and not how the NFL wants the tag to be used.

???
The rules are the rules.
If the intent was not to have someone on the tag for 2 years, then it wouldn't be allowed.

 

[XLIX]

I think you have it backwards - trading him while on the tag is what's considered bad business. You're not supposed to tag the player unless you intend to keep him

I have never heard this before. Everything is case by case but there is nothing inherently wrong with tagging a player with the intent to trade him.

It sure wasn’t bad business when we got a second round pick for Matt Cassell.

 

[XLIX]

I am guessing he will tell them to kick rocks for preventing him from finally hitting the open market, yet again, and that he refuses to sign or play on the tag. He will sit out all the way up til week 10 if needed and then only play 8 games, still get his money from the Bengals, and then hit the open market next year. The Bengals, knowing this is the eventual outcome and only getting 8 games from him on the backend won't really benefit the team much, will eventually rescind the tag or otherwise trade his rights for a (future) 3rd round pick.

The Benngals won’t let themselves be bullied by one of their own players. If they tag him, they aren’t going to change their minds just because he throws a temper tantrum.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I have never heard this before. Everything is case by case but there is nothing inherently wrong with tagging and then trading a player.

It sure wasn’t bad business when we got a second round pick for Matt Cassell.

The Cassel trade is what brought this topic up back in 2009. Had he known better, he could’ve easily gotten it removed. The tag was created so the team can retain the player - not use him as bait for compensation.

Nick Foles fought this after the 2017 season and easily won.

Josh Norman got it removed when the Panthers realized they weren’t going to be able to sign him.

If a player can prove the team can’t negotiate in good faith, the NFL will force the team to remove the tag.

 

[XLIX]

The Cassel trade is what brought this topic up back in 2009. Had he known better, he could’ve easily gotten it removed. The tag was created so the team stays with the player - not use him as bait for compensation.

There have been 2 CBA’s since Matt Cassell and neither of them say a thing about making it illegal to trade a tagged player.

The Texans recently tagged Clowney with the sole intent of trading him. That was just a few years ago. The practice is alive and well.

Nick Foles fought this after the 2017 season and easily won.

Nick Foles “won” because he’s Nick Foles. The Eagles never tagged him because he was nowhere worth being tagged, and having the game of his life in SB52 didn’t change that.

If a player can prove the team can’t negotiate in good faith, the NFL will force the team to remove the tag.

Good luck with that.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

the boston media has conditioned me to think that whenever bb used the franchise tag nfl players hate that. now they're forecasting cincy will use the franchise tag for the second time on higgins and there's no chance for the pats and he will be ok with this ?

 

[JohnJH]

1) You are. You're also undervaluing pick #4.

2) It would probably work out to be about the same considering Williams is made of glass - but I would be more willing to consider moving draft capital to get him, because he's an actual game-changer.

Isn't Williams just a higher drafted Tyquan Thornton? The dude is very skinny, his frame can't add anymore muscle, and he is more susceptible to injuries.

 

[Lansdowne]

Isn't Williams just a higher drafted Tyquan Thornton? The dude is very skinny, his frame can't add anymore muscle, and he is more susceptible to injuries.

Jameson Williams is more of a higher drafted Xavier Worthy. Regarding durability, it hasn’t been an issue for him. His only major injury in his playing career was the non-contact injury (which happens to players of all sizes at random) he suffered in the national championship game in January 2022. He missed most of his rookie season recovering from that. Other than that he’s sat out a Week 18 game for the 2023 season as a precaution. The other games he’s missed were suspension related. DeVonta Smith is even more of a string bean than him, and he’s held up just fine for the most part.

I wouldn’t be too held up on the size aspect more than the skill aspect. In Thornton’s case, he was a track star who lacked as a receiver. He also had smaller hands than most NFL receivers, not a problem with Williams. Thornton was projected to be a Day 3 guy who the Pats reached for in the 2nd round. Williams went 12th overall despite the ACL tear but very well could’ve gone higher than that at full health. Their pedigrees couldn’t be more different. Similar body types but not much else in common. Williams probably isn’t going to be available for trade anyway so I wouldn’t worry about him.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He is great at those 50 50 balls makes amazing catches and I think he and Maye get to another stratosphere together.

With how well Vrabel handled Brown and how McDaniels handled Moss, I have. No concerns about character.

His stats have been impacted by inconsistent QB play, conservative, vanilla play calls.

He has NFL experience there’s a few wrs in this draft I could be convinced taking over Pickens if he was reinserted in the draft l.
But showing your skills have worked in the NFL gives him the leg up.

My choice of WRs to target using 4 as part of the package

Williams
Waddle
Flowers
Pickens

On this list Pickens is the one who has the best chance of being moved and the team who may over value 4 than the others.

We tried getting Worthy last year and we were outbid or just screwed.
I have no doubt Wolf is targeting a speedster like Isiah Bond as early as the third.

Batshit crazy.

 

[XLIX]

the boston media has conditioned me to think that whenever bb used the franchise tag nfl players hate that. now they're forecasting cincy will use the franchise tag for the second time on higgins and there's no chance for the pats and he will be ok with this ?

The Boston media is right: players do hate being tagged. If you’re good enough to be tagged, you’re good enough to make a huge payday on the open market but are being prevented from doing so.

Different players react differently to it. Some grin and bear it, others make a bigger fuss. For Higgins, there are worse things in the world than taking a 1 year, $26 million deal and being a 27 year old UFA when all is said and done.

The weak NFL union lets the owners get away with something that would normally be 100% illegal because it just doesn’t impact many players. Their “every man for himself!” mentality will not make any sacrifices from the 1,500 member union on something that impacts roughly a dozen or so players a year.

 

[JohnJH]

I suspect that Higgins was not only not a happy camper when he was tagged last season and then not extended, but that the same thing will happen for a second straight season will make him outright pissed (if he isn't already). I know even playing on a tag he's getting some serious money. But, it's nowhere what he would have gotten last year or this year from another team, and then add to that the fact that he'd probably be said team(s) #1 WR. If he spends another year with the Bengals and is not extended and hits FA next season, he's now one year older and still behind the curve contract money-wise.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

You're looking in the wrong place for that. Try following grilledccheese37 or at least Angelo in Everett

Screw Angelo! I got some bad Cacoila from him with some bad picks halfway through the season. Dakota, Cheese, or NADA!

 

[slash83]

There’s no way Bengals pay Chase and Higgins to contracts. Their defense was awful last year, their best player on defense Hendrickson wants an extension dating back to last year. Unless they plan on dropping 40 every week to win, they better invest in defense.

 

[JohnJH]

There’s no way Bengals pay Chase and Higgins to contracts. Their defense was awful last year, their best player on defense Hendrickson wants an extension dating back to last year. Unless they plan on dropping 40 every week to win, they better invest in defense.

Yep. I've been saying that on here in a multitude of ways. Including: Even if they tag Higgins, he'll be pissed if he doesn't get a new contract from the Bengals. And even if he does and even if Burrow restructures his deal, they are going to loose whatever other talented players that they may have and be unable to sign any young and impactful FA's. They will have way too much money tied up in just 3 players (Burrow, Higgins, and then Chase). They can theoretically keep all three, but the damage that it'll do to the rest of the team will be substantial.

 

[JohnJH]

I think you have it backwards - trading him while on the tag is what's considered bad business. You're not supposed to tag the player unless you intend to keep him - that's why the cap dollars for the tag value come off your cap immediately even if the tag hasn't been signed. Tagging a player just to trade him is considered shady and you don't see it much.

You're correct. However, as we live in the world of ever increasing Shady, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Ross12]

You're correct. However, as we live in the world of ever increasing Shady, I wouldn't be surprised.

Teams definitely do tag players while intending to trade them first and foremost - Sneed on the Chiefs last year is a good example - but it's still not the "correct" use of the tag and is frowned upon. The line you have to walk is that you need to be negotiating towards a new deal in good faith at the same time - and if Higgins is getting offers for $30M+ a year for 5+ years, while Cincy is pitching $20M a year for 2 years or something, then Higgins can lodge a complaint that they're not really trying to keep him..

 

[JohnJH]

Teams definitely do tag players while intending to trade them first and foremost - Sneed on the Chiefs last year is a good example - but it's still not the "correct" use of the tag and is frowned upon. The line you have to walk is that you need to be negotiating towards a new deal in good faith at the same time - and if Higgins is getting offers for $30M+ a year for 5+ years, while Cincy is pitching $20M a year for 2 years or something, then Higgins can lodge a complaint that they're not really trying to keep him..

As I've heard that he wasn't happy being tagged last season (especially considering that they didn't sign him to a new contract before this season), if they try to pull what you just stated, I suspect he will lodge a formal complaint.

 

[Ross12]

As I've heard that he wasn't happy being tagged last season (especially considering that they didn't sign him to a new contract before this season), if they try to pull what you just stated, I suspect he will lodge a formal complaint.

Yeah, that ties into it - they already used the tag and didn't get anywhere with a new deal, now they're doing it again. The core problem, though, is proving that they don't even want to keep him this year and are simply holding him temporarily to get a draft pick.