Jacoby Ellsbury..

[Fixit]

This... is... Drew's... first... year... in... Boston. New... players... sometimes... need... a... year... to... adjust. Last... year... was... Coco's... first... year... in... Boston. Coco... was... far... worse... last... year... than... Drew... is... this... year. Therefore (watch out, I'm using logic)... Drew... will... be... much... better... than... Coco... after... adjusting.

Thanks for being a douche. Now I know I don't have to waste time trying to talk with you.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

I guess the question is what do you get by trading Coco? They had a perfect situation with Atlanta and trading Coco plus something else for the catcher Saltalamacchia (sp?). They get Tek's replacement, and Atl gets a replacement for Andru Jones.

It would have taken Coco plus a top pitcher (Lester, Buchholz, maybe Masterson could get it done but I doubt it) to get Salty. You can't trade your trash for other's treasure. Ellsbury+ for Salty was the trade I was hoping for.

They can get a decent prospect for Coco or maybe a good bullpen arm. You don't get a stud like Salty for a great D/no hit CF.

 

[Fixit]

It would have taken Coco plus a top pitcher (Lester, Buchholz, maybe Masterson could get it done but I doubt it) to get Salty. You can't trade your trash for other's treasure. Ellsbury+ for Salty was the trade I was hoping for.

They can get a decent prospect for Coco or maybe a good bullpen arm. You don't get a stud like Salty for a great D/no hit CF.

Drew had better have a good year next season, or...else...people...will...start...talking...to...you...like...this.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Thanks for being a douche. Now I know I don't have to waste time trying to talk with you.

Realize the only reason I was a douche is that you made zero effort to understand my point.

I made an argument. You responded with one sentence saying that Drew has done nothing (ignoring Coco's uselessness in the process). I explain that Coco did nothing his first year in Boston. You reply with "My calendar says it's not 2006," entirely ignoring my point that I'm looking at future performance and giving both guys mulligans for their first year (ask Renteria if that's a good idea. he'll agree). Only then do I treat you with contempt.

Try listening to others for once. I do it on a daily basis and, you know, I actually learn things. I sometimes adjust or outright change my perspective because I'm presented with a better one which I had never considered. It'll set you free.

 

[Fixit]

Realize the only reason I was a douche is that you made zero effort to understand my point.

I made an argument. You responded with one sentence saying that Drew has done nothing (ignoring Coco's uselessness in the process). I explain that Coco did nothing his first year in Boston. You reply with "My calendar says it's not 2006," entirely ignoring my point that I'm looking at future performance and giving both guys mulligans for their first year (ask Renteria if that's a good idea. he'll agree). Only then do I treat you with contempt.

Try listening to others for once. I do it on a daily basis and, you know, I actually learn things. I sometimes adjust or outright change my perspective because I'm presented with a better one which I had never considered. It'll set you free.

Others had already mentioned that Coco was hurt for his first season, so this, in effect, is his first season...apparently you need to have that pointed out to you. Comparing Drew and Coco this year will show that Coco leads in average, RBI, runs scored, SB (HUGE gap), plain ol' effort, and he plays far superior defense. Drew, to his credit, does lead in HR and weak hacks to end scoring threats.

Trying to make yourself sound superior doesn't mean you actually succeed, and I couldn't give a rat's ass if you have "contempt" for me. You sound like a jackass.

 

[Foley]

Crisp at least cares enough to try. It's painfully obvious that Drew has no passion for the game, either offensively or defensively, and is just collecting a paycheck. I'm not saying they could trade Drew; I'm just saying that if I was going to keep just one, it'd be Crisp, and I'd hope that his new defensive excellence is a trend and not a fluke.

Did Bill Mueller not care? or Mike Lowell? Just because a guy doesn't slam his helmet to the ground every time he strikes out doesn't mean he has no passion for the game. But its a great message to future Red Sox players: You can suck, but as long as you look pissed off in the process you'll be a fan favorite. Trot Nixon milked it for nearly his entire career.

And I'm sure they could trade Drew if they wanted, but why? Should they have traded away Beckett last year? You shouldn't give up on a player because of one bad season.

 

[Fixit]

Did Bill Mueller not care? or Mike Lowell? Just because a guy doesn't slam his helmet to the ground every time he strikes out doesn't mean he has no passion for the game. But its a great message to future Red Sox players: You can suck, but as long as you look pissed off in the process you'll be a fan favorite. Trot Nixon milked it for nearly his entire career.

And I'm sure they could trade Drew if they wanted, but why? Should they have traded away Beckett last year? You shouldn't give up on a player because of one bad season.

Have you actually watched Mike Lowell? That guy chirps a whole lot when he feels the need. And Bill Mueller produced when he was here. I don't care if a guy throws a tantrum, but at least look like you're aware that you're playing professional baseball.

All I said is if I could only keep one to make room for Ellsbury it would be Crisp. I don't like what I see from Drew...at all. No hitting, lax fielding, lame baserunning, and not a lick of fire.

Even though Beckett struggled last year, I liked what I saw: tremendous stuff and an obvious desire to win. BIG difference between the two.

 

[Foley]

Bill Mueller produced, but when did he ever do something overtly emotional on the field? Rarely, if ever, and it no one cared. Players succeed all the time without being overly emotional, or looking like they don't care, and as long as they succeed its not an issue. The fact that Drew isn't hitting is the concern, the fact that he doesn't have "a lick of fire" is a petty complaint.

Desire to win doesn't win games. Beckett may have had that desire, but all the desire in the world isn't going to make you pitch better. And what makes you think Drew has no talent, or whatever you want to call the hitting equivalent of stuff? Go back and look at video of Mike Lowell in 2005 and tell me that he looked like a good hitter. He sucked then, and then he snapped out of it in 2006 and has improved since. Theres no reason for me to believe Drew can't do the same.

 

[Fixit]

Bill Mueller produced, but when did he ever do something overtly emotional on the field? Rarely, if ever, and it no one cared. Players succeed all the time without being overly emotional, or looking like they don't care, and as long as they succeed its not an issue. The fact that Drew isn't hitting is the concern, the fact that he doesn't have "a lick of fire" is a petty complaint.

Desire to win doesn't win games. Beckett may have had that desire, but all the desire in the world isn't going to make you pitch better. And what makes you think Drew has no talent, or whatever you want to call the hitting equivalent of stuff? Go back and look at video of Mike Lowell in 2005 and tell me that he looked like a good hitter. He sucked then, and then he snapped out of it in 2006 and has improved since. Theres no reason for me to believe Drew can't do the same.

What makes me think that is that people who played with Drew said this was going to happen before he came to Boston.

He has a ton of talent, but he just doesn't look like a good baseball player to me. Desire may not make him a better player, but it sure as hell would make him work harder to be a better player. Beckett's a great example of that.

The bottom line is this: a guy with Drew's gifts should never look as bad as he does in all aspects of the game.

 

[Foley]

I completely agree, and I'm not a big fan of Drew or the signing myself. But he has hit well before with the stoic attitude, and that leads me to believe that he will again. Drew could easily hit .290 with 25HR and 90RBI next season -- Maybe he'll duplicate this year again, but hes never followed a bad year up with another one so hopefully history stays true.

And as far as teammates, Nomar, Bill Mueller and Grady Little all had glowing things to say about Drew when Boston signed him. Even Tony Larussa said he expected Drew to do well in Boston. The whole thing about his teammates hating him or expecting him to fail was blow out of proportion.

 

[Fixit]

I completely agree, and I'm not a big fan of Drew or the signing myself. But he has hit well before with the stoic attitude, and that leads me to believe that he will again. Drew could easily hit .290 with 25HR and 90RBI next season -- Maybe he'll duplicate this year again, but hes never followed a bad year up with another one so hopefully history stays true.

And as far as teammates, Nomar, Bill Mueller and Grady Little all had glowing things to say about Drew when Boston signed him. Even Tony Larussa said he expected Drew to do well in Boston. The whole thing about his teammates hating him or expecting him to fail was blow out of proportion.

Hey, only time will tell. I'd like nothing more than Drew turning it on and proving me wrong.

 

[Stokes]

It would have taken Coco plus a top pitcher (Lester, Buchholz, maybe Masterson could get it done but I doubt it) to get Salty. You can't trade your trash for other's treasure. Ellsbury+ for Salty was the trade I was hoping for.

They can get a decent prospect for Coco or maybe a good bullpen arm. You don't get a stud like Salty for a great D/no hit CF.

Oh no I realize that, I know we're not getting probably the top catching prospect in baseball for Coco plus junk. I would have done Coco + anyone except Lester/Buchholz for Salty is all I'm saying, and Coco had more value in a trade to Atl since they will be looking for an affordable CF next year (Though with the way Jones has been playing HE may be the affordable CF they're looking for).

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Last year was Coco's adjustment year. He played 105 games.

Fine, attack me for being a jackass. I'm sorry that I took a negative route, though it seems to have been required for me to get a response. Is what I said inaccurate? Did you ever considered my point? What do you think about the arguments I'm making?

Why do you think Drew is destined to continue his career-worst performance? Do you value Drew's track record at all? What do you think Coco is capable of going forward? Are you happy with either of them in the outfield? Please give me something other than JD Drew sucks this year (we all know that, it's inarguable) and Coco Crisp hustles (we know that too).

The conclusion I end up coming to is that you think next year's decisions should be made based on performance this year (ignoring likelihood of future performance) and how hard a guy appears to play the game. I think decisions for next year should be based on likelihood of future performance, what can be attained for the player being shipped out, and positional concerns. Am I misinterpreting your views? Do you take issue with mine?

 

[patriotspride]

based on past performance drew will spend a lot more time on the d.L. IN THE FUTURE .just using your logic.

 

[Bigdogx]

Hey, only time will tell. I'd like nothing more than Drew turning it on and proving me wrong.

You along with everyone else, but it is really time to call a spade a spade on this one. This is the guy we signed and this is what we are going to get from him. About the only thing positive he has done this year IMO is stay relatively healthy for the most part. It's getting amusing listening to some people think that magically this guy is just going to flip some switch and become a all star this year, if it has not happened for the first 5 months of the season it's a pretty damn good chance this is what your going to get for the rest of it!

 

[Foley]

I don't think anyone is really expecting Drew to start hitting like an all star the rest of the season. Those that realize this year is the worse of his career aren't completely giving up on him and have no reason to believe that this is what Drew will do for the duration of his time in Boston.

No one is saying Drew will magically become what he isn't, just that he'll become the hitter that he normally has been his entire career. Thats not a crazy idea.

 

[Bigdogx]

I don't think anyone is really expecting Drew to start hitting like an all star the rest of the season. Those that realize this year is the worse of his career aren't completely giving up on him and have no reason to believe that this is what Drew will do for the duration of his time in Boston.

No one is saying Drew will magically become what he isn't, just that he'll become the hitter that he normally has been his entire career. Thats not a crazy idea.

No it's not crazy, just like it's not crazy to say he is not a young player anymore and his best days might be past him already, not to mention getting those numbers in a far less competitive league in the n.l.!

Time will tell and he is going to be a red sox weather any of us likes him or hates him, because i don't see them eating this contract and there is no team dumb enough to take him off our hands!

 

[Fixit]

Can we all agree that Ellsbury's good?

 

[Bigdogx]

Can we all agree that Ellsbury's good?

From what i have seen absolutely, should he play over drew, again absolutely. To me once Manny gets back, drew should be the bench warmer for the team! It will suck having 60 million dollars sitting there doing nothing but it's better then the almost automatic double play he brings to the table on a nightly basis!

 

[DarrylS]

From what i have seen absolutely, should he play over drew, again absolutely. To me once Manny gets back, drew should be the bench warmer for the team! It will suck having 60 million dollars sitting there doing nothing but it's better then the almost automatic double play he brings to the table on a nightly basis!

How about taking 5 pitches, striking out and not even taking a swing..can't stand him at the plate.. do not know what Theo could have been thinking.