J.C. Jackson - "It's time to get Mr. INT paid."

[Rob0729]

No one is talking about Jackson refusing to sign the tag. He will just sign in early July. If the patriots are willing to have the $17M of cap money unavailable until then, that's fine.

You keep saying that, but history says otherwise. Thuney signed his immediately (he played out the year on the franchise tag and left the following year). So did Cassel (traded). Wilfork signed a new deal with the Pats after being franchised on March 5, 2010. Wes Welker signed franchise tender in May hoping he would be traded in the draft and wasn't. Logan Mankins held until November. Tebucky Jones was traded to the Saints on April 15. In 2002, Vinatieri signed a new contract on March 15 after being franchised. I cannot find when Vinatieri signed his tender in 2005, but I think it was early.

The only Patriot who has ever been franchised who did remotely close to what you suggest was Asante Samuel who held out until late August trying to get the Pats to either give him a long term deal or trade him. He signed his tender like a week before the start of the season.

You make is seem like it is so obvious that Jackson will wait until July when history says otherwise. The only franchised Patriots players who did not sign their tenders, were traded, or got long term deals that year by July were two players who had to go beyond July and play chicken with the Pats to force a new deal.

Now I don't see that Jackson will do what either Samuel or Mankins did and threaten to sit out the season if they didn't get what they wanted. In fact, Jackson already said he would play on the franchise tag if the Pats tagged him and they couldn't reach a deal. So there is no upside to wait until July.

Welker didn't sign his tender before the draft, but he had little trade value because back then a slot receiver was not valued by anyone other than the Pats and maybe a few other teams.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The only Patriot who has ever been franchised who did remotely close to what you suggest was Asante Samuel who held out until late August trying to get the Pats to either give him a long term deal or trade him. He signed his tender like a week before the start of the season.

Samuel wanted out of NE after the 2006 season. He didn't want to sign long term. He was furious when he was Franchised and only agreed to return for the 2007 season if Bill agreed to not Franchise him the following year.

 

[Rob0729]

Samuel wanted out of NE after the 2006 season. He didn't want to sign long term. He was furious when he was Franchised and only agreed to return for the 2007 season if Bill agreed to not Franchise him the following year.

Forgot about that. Either way though. He isn't a good comp for Jackson's best interest to sit out until July. Jackson wants to come back for the right price and he said he would play for the franchise tag.

 

[jimnance]

There is virtually NO chance the Pats will tag JC. Dont know what you guys are arguing cuz it just aint happenin.
And even if JC is willing to give the Pats a right of first refusal ala DMac and High, the price tag will be WAY too steep.
JC is getting BIG money from someone.
Would love to see him back at such a crucial position but Ive accepted the fact he wont be

 

[Rob0729]

There is virtually NO chance the Pats will tag JC. Dont know what you guys are arguing cuz it just aint happenin.
And even if JC is willing to give the Pats a right of first refusal ala DMac and High, the price tag will be WAY too steep.
JC is getting BIG money from someone.
Would love to see him back at such a crucial position but Ive accepted the fact he wont be

I don't think the Pats will tag him to keep him. I think they will tag and trade him because I think someone will give up more than a 2023 third round compensatory pick for him.

 

[mgteich]

You keep saying that, but history says otherwise. Thuney signed his immediately (he played out the year on the franchise tag and left the following year). So did Cassel (traded). Wilfork signed a new deal with the Pats after being franchised on March 5, 2010. Wes Welker signed franchise tender in May hoping he would be traded in the draft and wasn't. Logan Mankins held until November. Tebucky Jones was traded to the Saints on April 15. In 2002, Vinatieri signed a new contract on March 15 after being franchised. I cannot find when Vinatieri signed his tender in 2005, but I think it was early.

The only Patriot who has ever been franchised who did remotely close to what you suggest was Asante Samuel who held out until late August trying to get the Pats to either give him a long term deal or trade him. He signed his tender like a week before the start of the season.

You make is seem like it is so obvious that Jackson will wait until July when history says otherwise. The only franchised Patriots players who did not sign their tenders, were traded, or got long term deals that year by July were two players who had to go beyond July and play chicken with the Pats to force a new deal.

Now I don't see that Jackson will do what either Samuel or Mankins did and threaten to sit out the season if they didn't get what they wanted. In fact, Jackson already said he would play on the franchise tag if the Pats tagged him and they couldn't reach a deal. So there is no upside to wait until July.

Welker didn't sign his tender before the draft, but he had little trade value because back then a slot receiver was not valued by anyone other than the Pats and maybe a few other teams.

Thuney signed the tag because he thought that money was good.

We'll see. You are certainly entitled to believe that Jackson will do the patriots a HUGE favor, give up all leverage, and immediately sign a tag.
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For me, the decision is not difficult. Jackson should sign if he is willing to play for franchise money for any team that the patriots choose. That was Thuney's position.

Alternatively, he could sign after the team allowed him to negotiate with various teams and came to an agreement that both the patriots and Jackson accepted. I just don't see an acceptable team offering a huge contract and a huge draft choice. Jackson can just wait for the big money next year, if the patriots really have no better use for $17M of cap money.

 

[Rob0729]

Thuney signed the tag because he thought that money was good.

We'll see. You are certainly entitled to believe that Jackson will do the patriots a HUGE favor, give up all leverage, and immediately sign a tag.
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For me, the decision is not difficult. Jackson should sign if he is willing to play for franchise money for any team that the patriots choose. That was Thuney's position.

Alternatively, he could sign after the team allowed him to negotiate with various teams and came to an agreement that both the patriots and Jackson accepted. I just don't see an acceptable team offering a huge contract and a huge draft choice. Jackson can just wait for the big money next year, if the patriots really have no better use for $17M of cap money.

What leverage does Jackson give up? No team is going to give up anything of value for an one year rental of Jackson. Any team trading for Jackson is going to want a long term deal agreed to with Jackson. That is his leverage. If he doesn't want to go to a team, his leverage is to refuse to negotiate a long term deal.

If he is afraid that the Pats will trade him to Detroit and force him to play on the franchise tender, waiting to July does nothing to stop that other than mess with the compensation that the Pats will get from Detroit. If a team like Detroit is willing enough to trade for Jackson and let him play on the franchise tender, nothing stops the Pats and Lions to work out a trade and just consumate it the second that Jackson signs his tender in July.

Jackson has already said he would play for the franchise tender. So there is no reason to wait. Thuney thought his tender was enough money and so does Jackson.

And since no team is going to give up two first round picks for him, any deal he can make with another team needs the Pats to come to the table and negotiate a trade compensation for him less than two first round picks. That is easier and faster for Jackson and his agent to pull off they work with the Patriots rather than independently.

Jackson has a lot of leverage even if he signs the franchise tender right away because he has to agree to a deal with the new team to pull of a trade worthwhile for the Patriots. And I got news for you. Most players will work for virtually any team if that team is willing to pay them a lot of money especially an above market deal. I have yet to see that Jackson only wants to play for a winner. I think he wants to get paid and even though he would rather play for a good team, I doubt he will turn down Detroit or any other bad team if they pay him above market value.

And the Pats want the best compensation in a trade and that would be for Jackson with a long term deal in place. Trading him without a deal in the works would discount their compensation quite a bit. So it is in the Pats' best interest to trade Jackson to a place he wants to play and sign a long term deal.

 

[kennyb]

I think they will tag and trade him. Why not? Better than letting him walk for a 3rd in a year.

Besides, they need the money for signing great vets like hightower and mccourty. They know the system and that's priceless. They could use the picks for a special teams ace or two.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think they will tag and trade him. Why not? Better than letting him walk for a 3rd in a year.

Besides, they need the money for signing great vets like hightower and mccourty. They know the system and that's priceless. They could use the picks for a special teams ace or two.

I agree, but Hightower needs to go. McCourty is debatable as a few posters on this board that saw him in person this year say he looks awfully late diagnosing and reacting to plays.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I agree, but Hightower needs to go. McCourty is debatable as a few posters on this board that saw him in person this year say he looks awfully late diagnosing and reacting to plays.

Fire hydrants react quicker than Hightower.

 

[jdlboot14]

The closer we get, the more I think JC is surely gone. I think the $ can be used other places better.
- FA WR (Berrios)
- FA DT
- FA S
Draft a 1st/2nd round CB/LB, in whichever order. Rookie CB's can play right away. Pats rookie WR's never work, EVER.
Draft a OT/EDGE in the 3rd/4th.

 

[jimnance]

I don't think the Pats will tag him to keep him. I think they will tag and trade him because I think someone will give up more than a 2023 third round compensatory pick for him.

I agree with that if BB has a hypothetical trade to his liking with another team. But I dont think he'll just tag him blindly w/o a trade offer already in place. Thats too risky. Of course JC would gladly sign the tag and if no trade materializes,Pats are on the hook for a ton of $. BB can put the word out and get a trade worked out prior to tagging JC. Thats the ONLY scenario i see with BB tagging him. Theres a chance that could happen- if adding JC makes someone a contender then trading a good draft pick would ve worth it

 

[jimnance]

I agree, but Hightower needs to go.

Sadly, I agree. But damn it's hard for one of the alltime greatest Patriots.
Other than the GOAT, was anyone more clutch or made more big plays in crucial moments of playoff/SB than High?
Maybe Jules is tied with him but nobody else not even Gronk. Adam's a kicker so hes in a different catagory.
I'm just hoping he'll retire

 

[patfanken]

It seems like there is a league wide view of JC that doesn't see him as a shut down CB. More good than great, BUT with a great eye for the ball and great ball skills. I really want him to be on the team this season, but I can't see it happening right now. The only chance I see that happening would be a Hightower scenario where he goes and tests the market and finds that "league view" is a reality. Unfortunately it only takes one team looking to make a splash and has lots of cap room.

IMHO here is how I see it. Based on what we are hearing, Jackson's true value is in the range of $15mm/yr on a 4 year deal with 70% guaranteed. He's looking for a deal in the range of 4/yrs for $90mm. Which would be top 3 money on a long term deal.
THis would be my compromise. It would be that $60MM dollar deal as a base, with incentives that would increase the deal much close to what Jackson wants. And these incentives would be a combination of stats/games played and awards that would come to a true shut down elite CB. This way he gets paid IF he produces, and if he is just good but not great, then he'll get paid his true value.

That's the deal I'd try and work out.

 

[TheRainMaker]

IMHO here is how I see it. Based on what we are hearing, Jackson's true value is in the range of $15mm/yr on a 4 year deal with 70% guaranteed.

Go look at the salaries of the CB’s in the league. Once you do that, you should revise that offer. Quite insulting to Jackson actually.

 

[ralmat55]

Ken. How do you know the “league wide” view of Jackson? Has there been a survey of GM’s on the subject of which I’m not aware?

Or, are you just parroting the Patriots’ PR to once again justify not paying one of their own free agents after lavishing money on a Jonnu Smith last off-season?

How do you make any sense out being willing to pay $13 million a year to a TE who gets 5 balls thrown his way a game but not pay $17 million to a quality CB who plays nearly every defensive down? Isn’t a CB who plays every down $4 million more valuable than a stiff TE who has the catch radius of a grandmother with a bad hip?

This is the Beli-insanity that’s going to mire the Patriots into a long stretch of mediocrity without Brady around to bail his arrogant butt out of the fire.

 

[patfanken]

Go look at the salaries of the CB’s in the league. Once you do that, you should revise that offer. Quite insulting to Jackson actually.

What's so insulting about essentially saying this. "OK JC, the bae part of this contract pays you fairly for how WE value your skill set. But the incentive portion of the deal will pay you the difference of how YOU value yourself. So reach those incentives and you will get paid what you want.

And those incentives would be a combination of stats, rating lists, and All pro awards that essentially would prove that Jackson was one of the top 5 CB's in the league next season. It gives Jackson exactly what he wants, but protects the Pats incase their view of him is the correct one.

NOTHING insulting about that offer.

 

[TheRainMaker]

What's so insulting about essentially saying this. "OK JC, the bae part of this contract pays you fairly for how WE value your skill set. But the incentive portion of the deal will pay you the difference of how YOU value yourself. So reach those incentives and you will get paid what you want.

And those incentives would be a combination of stats, rating lists, and All pro awards that essentially would prove that Jackson was one of the top 5 CB's in the league next season. It gives Jackson exactly what he wants, but protects the Pats incase their view of him is the correct one.

NOTHING insulting about that offer.

Worse players make more at his position.

 

[mgteich]

What's so insulting about essentially saying this. "OK JC, the bae part of this contract pays you fairly for how WE value your skill set. But the incentive portion of the deal will pay you the difference of how YOU value yourself. So reach those incentives and you will get paid what you want.

And those incentives would be a combination of stats, rating lists, and All pro awards that essentially would prove that Jackson was one of the top 5 CB's in the league next season. It gives Jackson exactly what he wants, but protects the Pats incase their view of him is the correct one.

NOTHING insulting about that offer.

Jackson should talk to other teams for 3-4 months, and consider such an offer in July.

I would expect Jackson to play for $17M in 2022. Your contract is $60M plus incentives. Would Jackson expect to get more in 2023 than $43M/3 plus incentives? I would expect Jackson to bet on himself and play for $17M.

 

[venecol]

It seems like there is a league wide view of JC that doesn't see him as a shut down CB. The only chance I see that happening would be a Hightower scenario where he goes and tests the market and finds that "league view" is a reality. Unfortunately it only takes one team looking to make a splash and has lots of cap room.

“Not sure this will surprise, but personnel execs I’ve spoken to here in Indy expect there will be a robust market for J.C. Jackson’s services if the Patriots don’t manage to come to an agreement or tag the soon-to-be-free agent corner,” NFL Media’s Mike Giardi tweeted Wednesday, while adding this quote from a source: “He’s in his prime and he finds the football.”

He GONE.