It's more about Tom Brady than Wes Welker!!!

[NYCPatsFan]

Disagree. The pats lose one guy on offense and they fall apart. Its pretty pathetic actually. Happened when welker was out for the Baltimore game a few years ago, when Gronk was out for the SB, and again last week when Hernandez was out.

Its like the Pats have no contingency plan if a player gets injured. Brady losses one weapon and one of the best offenses in the becomes one of the worst. Brady panics when he's under pressure. And the crazy thing is people still complain about how "tom needs more help".

Pats have a HOF QB, the best TE in the game, the best slot WR in the game, an emerging #1 RB, and a VERY good deep threat/receiver in Lloyd. Other teams would kill to have what the Pats have on offense...

I am surprised that many of the knowledgeable posters didn't address or rebut your points (which I agree to reluctantly even though I would like to believe that superior team like ours will seamlessly move on to their contingency plan once one of the top guys is not in action, just like when Brady was lost for the season).

Is it because they secretly agree but loath to discuss it openly?

 

[BSR]

No.
They didn't phase out Moss to see if they had a replacement on the roster.
Moss quit on the team so they traded him.

I remember it that he only quit on the team after they started to reduce his role. Remember him blowing up on the sidelines with BoB? He was traded the next week. I don't see the Welker situation in the same light however as I think Welker is still in his prime unlike Moss was at that time. I also don't think that it is an effort to phase Welker out as it is an effort to strengthen the team's repertoire of things they do well.

The way I see it, they are trying to build a complete offense that can threaten all parts of the field and make it harder to defend. I'm not sure why people think this is a bad thing? The whole idea is for teams to stop doubling Welker by making them more concerned with the outside receivers, however they aren't going to be concerned with them unless they produce.

 

[RIpats88]

Our offense was TOO reliant on welker/Gronkowski last year....and I think people are freaking out because Welker isnt playing 90% of the snaps which was sort of an outlier last year

I think the reason the Pats are committed to running the ball/spreading the ball around on offense is so that losing one player doesnt affect our offense as much as it does...

look at the Giants..they lose one of their best wr's in Nicks and some random guy steps in and their offense keeps rolling

 

[Ring 6]

I remember it that he only quit on the team after they started to reduce his role. Remember him blowing up on the sidelines with BoB? He was traded the next week. I don't see the Welker situation in the same light however as I think Welker is still in his prime unlike Moss was at that time. I also don't think that it is an effort to phase Welker out as it is an effort to strengthen the team's repertoire of things they do well.

The way I see it, they are trying to build a complete offense that can threaten all parts of the field and make it harder to defend. I'm not sure why people think this is a bad thing? The whole idea is for teams to stop doubling Welker by making them more concerned with the outside receivers, however they aren't going to be concerned with them unless they produce.

Moss quit on the team first. He made the ridiculous comments in the press conferences first, then he quit vs the Jets. He had man coverage from freaking Cromartie all day after Revis went out, and they made a concerted effort to take advantage of that, and it resulted in poor effort, and 2 Ints that shouldn't have been.
That was the end of Moss. He was on the field the next week as a decoy before the trade could be completed.

 

[Ring 6]

Our offense was TOO reliant on welker/Gronkowski last year....and I think people are freaking out because Welker isnt playing 90% of the snaps which was sort of an outlier last year

I think the reason the Pats are committed to running the ball/spreading the ball around on offense is so that losing one player doesnt affect our offense as much as it does...

look at the Giants..they lose one of their best wr's in Nicks and some random guy steps in and their offense keeps rolling

What is silly in this is that after 2 games, really after 1, people think they know what the offense will be. The idea that the offense is committed to the run is being thrown around like a fact, and there is absolutely no evidence of this. In the first game they ran a bit more than normal, but the numbers were skewed by running 10 of the last 11 snaps while killing the clock. Last week there was no greater commitment to the run that any of the last 3 seasons.
The same with 'spreading the ball around'. There is no evidence that the coaching staff sees anything wrong with the way the pass offense was designed last year.
All we know for certain is that there is an effort to limit Welker's snaps early in the season. There is nothing whatsoever available to us to judge why, and there are so many variables that could be behind it, its foolish to even speculate.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Ok, you're a moron.

I guess you hammer on Shabboth? Cool, do you roll too?

 

[BSR]

Moss quit on the team first. He made the ridiculous comments in the press conferences first, then he quit vs the Jets. He had man coverage from freaking Cromartie all day after Revis went out, and they made a concerted effort to take advantage of that, and it resulted in poor effort, and 2 Ints that shouldn't have been.
That was the end of Moss. He was on the field the next week as a decoy before the trade could be completed.

Again, I remember it differently.

I definitely remember the patriots started to reduce his role in that first game before he ever blew up and quit on them. That was the first year with Gronk and Ahern and the pats were trying to spread it around more.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, I remember it differently.

I definitely remember the patriots started to reduce his role in that first game before he ever blew up and quit on them. That was the first year with Gronk and Ahern and the pats were trying to spread it around more.

I can't help your memory, but it is incorrect.
He caught 5 passes in week 1. He caught more than that only 5 games the year before.
I was wrong on 1 item. It took them 2 weeks to trade him after they gave up on him for giving up on the team vs NY when he caught 2 passes in 10 targets.

 

[Patsrock]

Not that the % isn't great but that wasn't the highest last year. Colston was at 75% and Gronk was up towards 83%.

I am not talking about 1 player. I am talking about overall. If you complete 71% on average to all your receivers you are gonna have a damn good year.

 

[doesntmatter1]

The offense as a whole will be alright. And i am going to look at ahern going down as a positive in the long term. I have felt that brady relies to heavily on wes and the tight ends. Im not really a edel fan but if Brady can get it to click with him and all of the other targets besides our top 3 it can only help us.

Im actually excited to see what winslow can do. His highlights look a little similar to shiancoe's. And you never know if salas will find his way back to the 53 man roster. Im still extremely optimistic about this season even if we lose to the ravens.

 

[RIpats88]

im not sure how you can say the Pats arent committed to the run more...theyve even mentioned that they plan to be..

when you have a back that can average 5ypc which its looking like ridley could be you want to utilize that....the pats never really committed to the run previously because they didnt have backs that could be that dynamic back since maybe Corey Dillon

and, Moss did quit on us that year, and he quit on the vikings and the Titans...the patriots didnt swap him for Branch because Branch was better, but because Moss was being an issue.

 

[borg]

Here's an interesting chart that tracked Air Yards....yardage a pass travels through the air forward of the line of scrimmage....in 2011. Many different interpretations can be made from the data....but one thing I think it clearly demonstrates is the teams passing philosophy. For the Pats....low risk short passes that rely on the receivers to become playmakers. Brady was #13 on the list averaging 4.1 Air Yards/attempt and #30 with only 48% of total passing yards coming through the air. The Pats receivers were third best at Yards after the catch
Factoring in Brady's 1/15 on deep balls last year and his reliance on 3 over the middle options .....you can understand why teams flooded the middle of the field with extra DBs.

Advanced NFL Stats: Air Yards 2011


I

 

[BSR]

I can't help your memory, but it is incorrect.
He caught 5 passes in week 1. He caught more than that only 5 games the year before.
I was wrong on 1 item. It took them 2 weeks to trade him after they gave up on him for giving up on the team vs NY when he caught 2 passes in 10 targets.

Reading up on it, there were certainly some rumblings early on even before the first game. He made is comments in the spring about the Patriots being "cheap". He then had the infamous tantrum at the Kraft fundraiser. But in the end it was contract related.

I do agree with you that it isn't an issue to worry over at this point.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Moss quit on the team first. He made the ridiculous comments in the press conferences first, then he quit vs the Jets. He had man coverage from freaking Cromartie all day after Revis went out, and they made a concerted effort to take advantage of that, and it resulted in poor effort, and 2 Ints that shouldn't have been.
That was the end of Moss. He was on the field the next week as a decoy before the trade could be completed.

I thought at the time that those 2 lack of NFL level effort by Moss picks against the Jets whom Brady despises were the final straw irrevocably breaking the Brady-Moss trust bond. Tom hates picks and hates the Jets even more.

 

[JJDChE]

So wait. Your argument is that Brady throws to much to Welker making him less successful and the FACT that the % completed to Welker is the highest in the entire league is irrelevant to you?

No, I'm just saying that 71% could be 75% if he didn't throw it to him in low percentage situations, i.e. someone draped on his back. I don't understand why that is so hard to fathom.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I'm just saying that 71% could be 75% if he didn't throw it to him in low percentage situations, i.e. someone draped on his back. I don't understand why that is so hard to fathom.

Because it is an ignorant point of view. Its like saying Ted Williams hit .406 but made bad decisions about what pitches to swing at, and if he didn't do that he would have hit .415, and trying to pretend it is a valid criticism.

 

[Ring 6]

im not sure how you can say the Pats arent committed to the run more...theyve even mentioned that they plan to be..

Please show me where they have said this in any more than a rhetorical and vague manner.

when you have a back that can average 5ypc which its looking like ridley could be you want to utilize that....the pats never really committed to the run previously because they didnt have backs that could be that dynamic back since maybe Corey Dillon

We aren't talking about your idea of what they should do, we are talking about calling it a fact that they have decided to commit to the run more.

and, Moss did quit on us that year, and he quit on the vikings and the Titans...the patriots didnt swap him for Branch because Branch was better, but because Moss was being an issue.

That has always been obvious to those paying attention without a bias.

 

[JJDChE]

Because it is an ignorant point of view. Its like saying Ted Williams hit .406 but made bad decisions about what pitches to swing at, and if he didn't do that he would have hit .415, and trying to pretend it is a valid criticism.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[crawhammer]

Classy...you should last long here.

Long enough to spot a moron.

 

[crawhammer]

Makes sense even to Bruschi apparently as part of a phase out Welker and see if we have a remotely viable replacement on the roster strategy.

Apparently Bruschi has taken one too many shots to the head. "Phasing out Welker" is pure stupidity. Plain and simple, Welker's the best at his position (slot WR) in the entire league. The coaching staff has a responsibility to put the best players on the field right now to maximize their chances for success right now. Considerations for replacing Welker can be made if and when the time comes after the completion of this season; that's what the offseason is for. This team needs Welker on the field, he makes them a better team. Edelman is, has been, and will be an inferior replacement. As far as I'm concerned, the loss to Arizona was partially due to ill-conceived game planning to include starting Edelman over Welker. That mistake should not happen again.