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Is Trey Lance worth Patriots to trade up to get?

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Ras-IR Dowling

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
If SF is serious out Jones at 3 I think Lance is the last of the 5 to go. If we feel there’s a big gap between the top 5 and say Mills Mond and Trask try to go up to 7 and jump Denver and Carolina for Lance.
 

mgteich

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If SF is serious out Jones at 3 I think Lance is the last of the 5 to go. If we feel there’s a big gap between the top 5 and say Mills Mond and Trask try to go up to 7 and jump Denver and Carolina for Lance.
Sure, let's just make believe that so one is capable of trading up to 4 or 5 or 6. It will take a lot less for CAR or DEN to move up than it will take the patriots. Of course, WASH is the wild card.
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THE FIRST 6 PICKS
seem likely to include 4 quarterbacks and Pitts. and then there is Pick 6.

Pick seven may be late for one of the QB's.
 

rads2005

Practice Squad Player
I would prefer keeping the draft picks and getting some good, cheap rookies with the 1st/2nd rounder. It seems probable that Jimmy G will be available next year, and a decision then can be made depending on the season Cam Newton has. I'm bullish on Cam this year after some experience with the Pats offense and a full offseason. Unless it's Trevor Lawrence I don't want to give up so many valuable commodities. I think you can win with Jimmy G.
 

NashuaPats

In the Starting Line-Up
This article is a puff piece, but this is an interesting quote.

"Trey is probably the hardest evaluation I've had to do in 11 years," says ESPN draft scout Matt Miller. "Seventeen starts is a very small picture to get a complete idea of who a player is, and it's not only 17 but 17 against FCS competition. But in those games, I've never seen a player so dominant. If you trust the tape, he should be the No. 2 quarterback taken in the draft, behind [Trevor] Lawrence."
 

betterthanthealternative

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Lol. Some mystic nonsensical thing is happening but it’s impossible to show.
Your question: Do you have examples of players who were drafted late and could have become top 10 qbs but their team didn’t have patience that we could discuss?

We can't go back into time, with omniscience, to replay history. It is the opposite of mystical; it is the nature of time as we experience it.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
If you had choice of Trey or Mac, at #8 (trade with Panthers) ?

IMO - Trey. More upside.
Trey's the Josh Allen of this draft. He's the clear risk but if he does workout, he's going to be one of the best in the class (obviously Lawrence is in this draft so that's something that makes it hard).
 

betterthanthealternative

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Drafting a QB in the top half of the first round is by far THE LIKELY WAY to find a top qb. Not Case Keenum, David Carr or other guys who win nothing.

Drafting a QB in the top half of the first round produces bust BUT AT A FAR LOWER RATE than drafting them later.

If you listed you “starter even if they suck standard” you would find at least a 10 times greater hit rate for top 15 picks thsn 2nd, 3rd, 4th whatever rounds you want to include starters who won’t be starters much longer from.

Here is the analogy.

The smart thing to do when you play black and have 18 is to stay.
The odds are enormously in your favor.
Your argument is the equivalent of saying it’s better to hit because you saw people do it and get an ace 2 or 3 and you’ve seen people stay and lose to a dealer 20.

Your kidding right? Keenum Cousins Garoppolo Carr and Prescott. That is your standards? THAT is what you consider success?

Im not sure how you are not following so I will repeat.

Drafting a QB in the top half of the first round is by far THE LIKELY WAY to find a top qb. Not Case Keenum, David Carr or other guys who win nothing.

Drafting a QB in the top half of the first round produces bust BUT AT A FAR LOWER RATE than drafting them later.

If you listed you “starter even if they suck standard” you would find at least a 10 times greater hit rate for top 15 picks thsn 2nd, 3rd, 4th whatever rounds you want to include starters who won’t be starters much longer from.

Here is the analogy.

The smart thing to do when you play black and have 18 is to stay.
The odds are enormously in your favor.
Your argument is the equivalent of saying it’s better to hit because you saw people do it and get an ace 2 or 3 and you’ve seen people stay and lose to a dealer 20.

Any QB taken in the top 10 picks will have a far better chance to succeed in the NFL than the same player taken in the 5th Round.
 

Ring 6

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Your question: Do you have examples of players who were drafted late and could have become top 10 qbs but their team didn’t have patience that we could discuss?

We can't go back into time, with omniscience, to replay history. It is the opposite of mystical; it is the nature of time as we experience it.
I’m not asking for omniscience I’m asking for examples that got the hypothesis you put forth.
We could argue many women could have been HOF QBs but never got the chance with that approach.
 

Ring 6

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Any QB taken in the top 10 picks will have a far better chance to succeed in the NFL than the same player taken in the 5th Round.
Because they are better players. Players taken in the 5th round have every opportunity to show they belong, most get a roster spot, and if they are good enough they get their chance. There was this 6th rounder one time who did they. Brody or something like that.
 

farn

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Any QB taken in the top 10 picks will have a far better chance to succeed in the NFL than the same player taken in the 5th Round.
I don’t agree. I’m guessing both of these groups might each have one good QB :
(1) Fields, Lance, Wilson
(2) Trask, Mond, Mills

All six could be Alex Smith or less. Mond might be 1/6. We have no idea, and if history has showed us anything, most QB evaluators don’t either.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I don’t agree. I’m guessing both of these groups might each have one good QB :
(1) Fields, Lance, Wilson
(2) Trask, Mond, Mills

All six could be Alex Smith or less. Mond might be 1/6. We have no idea, and if history has showed us anything, most QB evaluators don’t either.
I think better's point was that QB's taken high actually, you know, get a chance to play and prove it, whereas teams typically drafting a QB later are looking for someone to carry a clipboard and spit bucket.
 

UGAPatsfan

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I know you just do this for fun when the draft rolls around but the OSU-QB thing sounds so weak at this point. It's a just a tell that someone didn't watch Fields. I would find another talking point with respect lol.

It's also a weak talking point bc most QB's are going to fail. So the whole don't draft WR from USC or QB from OSU is just nonsense. Plus Fields & Haskins ran two different systems or were asked to do two different things. That's evident if you watched them.

Again though it's just a useless talking point cuz. I know you do this for fun but some stuff on here the past few days (not you but Clemson offense > OSU offense) , don't draft OSU QB (lol you :) I have to put on my cape and set you guys straight.

Wyoming isn't a better QB school than OSU bc Josh Allen has had more recent success. Not how it works amigo.

Had some blueberry pancakes, smoked bacon, potatoes today. Nice cold tall glass of OJ to wash it down.
I have a bigger issue with Fields...he runs from adversity. See: his exit from UGA and particularly HOW that was orchestrated. Got beat out (well...sort of. Kirby had an odd thing with Fromm) and then pretends he is leaving because the school is racist so he can get a waiver.
Add to that he isn’t known as a super hard worker locally...not sure he fits here. Great athlete, but I have mental toughness questions when things don’t go his way.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
I have a bigger issue with Fields...he runs from adversity. See: his exit from UGA and particularly HOW that was orchestrated. Got beat out (well...sort of. Kirby had an odd thing with Fromm) and then pretends he is leaving because the school is racist so he can get a waiver.
Add to that he isn’t known as a super hard worker locally...not sure he fits here. Great athlete, but I have mental toughness questions when things don’t go his way.

It sounds like there was a racist incident while at Georgia, but that wasn’t his case for transferring according to his attorney:


Some of those reports suggested that Fields' case for a waiver would center around a racist incident that occurred during his freshman season with the Georgia Bulldogs. Former Georgia baseball player Adam Sasser used a racial slur in the stands at a game while referring to Fields. Sasser was later kicked off the team following an investigation by the athletic department.

However, Fields' statement after it was announced that he would be eligible to play with the Buckeyes next season seemed to dispel the notion that the racial slur had much, if anything, to do with his case to obtain a waiver. Attorney Tom Mars, who represented Fields, affirmed that assumption in a comment to ESPN on Thursday.

"Irrefutable documentation that has nothing to do with racism was presented to the NCAA in support of OSU’s request that Justin Fields be given a waiver," Mars said. "That information wasn’t critical of -- and didn’t reflect poorly on -- the UGA culture, the UGA administration or staff, any particular student, or the student body. And it certainly didn’t reflect poorly on Justin or any member of his family. However, that documentation did provide support for the issuance of a waiver under the NCAA’s rules."
Fields wasn’t alone either. His former teammate Otis Reese is another who transferred, citing racism as the main issue:


(Disclaimer: All of this is news to me as I’m not really tuned in to what goes on in college football. Thought I’d share what I found when google searching it just now.)
 
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Jlaff

Early Bird Specials
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
This article is a puff piece, but this is an interesting quote.

"Trey is probably the hardest evaluation I've had to do in 11 years," says ESPN draft scout Matt Miller. "Seventeen starts is a very small picture to get a complete idea of who a player is, and it's not only 17 but 17 against FCS competition. But in those games, I've never seen a player so dominant. If you trust the tape, he should be the No. 2 quarterback taken in the draft, behind [Trevor] Lawrence."
Does anyone know what it's called when you start an article by describing some random irrelevant scene before the reader actually knows what the article is about (apart from a title) and before getting into the purpose of the article?

Like an article about astrophysics will start "Jack was standing waiting for a train. The wind was howling through the busy outdoor terminal..." before it gets to "...so the thing about black holes..."

Seems like every hipster tool is doing that these days. Doesn't surprise me ESPN does it too.
 

Jlaff

Early Bird Specials
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
If the Pats don't LOVE any QB still available in this draft do something unorthodox and turn that first into a better first next year (plus more). Seems to be the converse of trading up for this year's and next year's first.

In effect, you can move up next year by trading the previous year's first, rather than the following year's first.
 

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