Is the Pats' Defense Starting to Gel?

[supafly]

Something is building and it's for real. This isn't Jets hype.

I especially like the Gregory signing. That secondary is not going to be a sieve any more.

I like the versatility and improvement in talent overall in the secondary. We no longer need to see some of the stopgap guys that we saw last yr as starters, at least we shouldn't have to go quite that far again even when/if injuries occur.

As far as it being "early" in TC still, I think that we're getting into a very important phase with the last 3 preseason games occurring in 10 days starting on Monday.

That means that there will be a TC practice Thurs/Fri, no practice Sat, and only a walkthrough on Sun. Then we face 10 straight days where the last 3 preseason games occur, and that takes us to the end of the month. The real season starts within a handful of days (less than a week) afterwards.

I don't think it's necessarily too early in TC, I think we're actually beginning the wind down myself (not to be argumentative to mayo's comments or anyone else's, just thought I'd point it out). Either way, it's never too early for optimisim, especially on that side of the ball.

Considering the fact that the team:

--Added 2 first rd draft picks at front seven positions, and an additional one in the third--totalling 3 "high" picks dedicated to front seven positions

--Added key FA signings such as Fanane, Gregory, Allen, Scott

--Have key injured players such as Chung, Dowling and Spikes healthy

--Additional TC's and another year of experience for guys such as Deaderick, Love, Moore, etc

I think that YES..there certainly should be improvement for sure!

 

[supafly]

My hope has been that Bequette (6'4 1/2", 275#+) and Fanene (6'4", 290#+) between them could be used very effectively - Fanene playing LDE in the "base" and moving inside, with Bequette taking over as LDE on sub packages, and moving inside on NASCAR packages. All reports were that Fanene was a load to handle from a quickness/size/strength perspective before getting hurt. The impression I get is that it's nothing serious, but that the team doesn't want to rush him back and risk further injury. If Bequette can develop quickly, those 2 guys combined with Jones and quicker options like Ninkovich or Cunningham would give the Pats tremendous depth and versatility at the end positions.

I certainly agree, although I will admit that I am starting to get concerned about some of the front seven guys and their health, Fanane certainly included.

It's beginning to look like Fanane, Warren, and Pryor will all three be PUP candidates. (Edited for correction: as Fanane and Warren have both taken limited reps already, therefore not making them eligible for PUP, but the point remains the same if they miss any longer period of time) Seeing as how that was one of our lightest positions depth wise already, I think that we will need to hope for some good luck; not only with the injuries themselves, but also with some camp cut signings when the roster trimmings occur.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's beginning to look like Fanane, Warren, and Pryor will all three be PUP candidates.

Warren and Fanene have both participated in TC activities and aren't eligible for PUP. Again, I think the Pats are just being cautious with Fanrne.

 

[supafly]

Warren and Fanene have both participated in TC activities and aren't eligible for PUP. Again, I think the Pats are just being cautious with Fanrne.

Of course, of course..I will edit my thread that I started accordingly, thanks for the info. I actually knew that Fanane had practiced before, and it was a lapse of judgement (as Chad Johnson would say 'that's a f$%king rookie mistake' ).

The issue that concerns me is that Fanane has not even been seen on the sidelines working with trainers, etc.

 

[Off The Grid]

They're Gellin' like Magellan!!

No lie: Brother Mayo is spot on.

And this Crew has greater Depth of Talent than I've ever seen since our heyday.

And, amazingly, this young Crew is far better poised than we were then to not only Quantum Leap all the way to the top level this very year...but to stay there, indefinitely!! :rocker:

 

[everlong]

There's certainly positive signs but put me in the encouraged but not convinced camp. The start of the schedule should be good for them to build on. Tenn, AZ and Baltimore are not world beaters on offense which should give them more time to grow before playing Buffalo and Denver. Preseason predictions are tricky but really other than Buffalo twice, Denver and Houston nobody on the Pat's schedule really looks to be a top ten offense. I actually wish they had SD and Pitt on the schedule to challenge them a bit harder and give them more reps against championship caliber offenses. But again who knows. I'm giving Manning and Denver the benefit of the doubt and they could suck if Peyton isn't right and maybe another team steps up and becomes a top offense.

 

[BSR]

I've been reading the same indications from the camp reports. I am being cautiously optimistic for the season, but it would be nice to have a high level of confidence in the defense again. The thing that this defense has really been lacking since the heydays of 2001-2004 are the playmakers that will come up with the big forced fumble/interception/sack that will put a game away. We've had some here and there like Wilfork, but a team needs to be filled with them in order to come up with the big play with any regularity.

 

[reflexblue]

They're Gellin' like Magellan!!

​

Well brother Grid i hope they're Gellin like Dr Sholles,

Then they can put they're collective boot up the other teams azz :rocker:

 

[BTTA]

There's certainly positive signs but put me in the encouraged but not convinced camp. The start of the schedule should be good for them to build on. Tenn, AZ and Baltimore are not world beaters on offense which should give them more time to grow before playing Buffalo and Denver. Preseason predictions are tricky but really other than Buffalo twice, Denver and Houston nobody on the Pat's schedule really looks to be a top ten offense. I actually wish they had SD and Pitt on the schedule to challenge them a bit harder and give them more reps against championship caliber offenses. But again who knows. I'm giving Manning and Denver the benefit of the doubt and they could suck if Peyton isn't right and maybe another team steps up and becomes a top offense.

Reports are that the Baltimore offense may carry the team this year. They are strong nearly everywhere on that unit, and the defense is showing its age. That O will be a very good test for the Pats D.

 

[TyronePoole]

I'm cautiously optimistic. "Cautiously" because sometimes things look great in TC when they aren't:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...s-defense-aggressive-exciting-innovative.html

 

[mayoclinic]

I've been reading the same indications from the camp reports. I am being cautiously optimistic for the season, but it would be nice to have a high level of confidence in the defense again. The thing that this defense has really been lacking since the heydays of 2001-2004 are the playmakers that will come up with the big forced fumble/interception/sack that will put a game away. We've had some here and there like Wilfork, but a team needs to be filled with them in order to come up with the big play with any regularity.

Again, while it's very early, there are plenty of existence proofs of how the addition of 1 or 2 additional playmakers can transform a defense in a short time. Houston went from the worst defense in the NFL in 2010 to one of the best in 2011. The additions of rookies JJ Watt and Brooks Reed and FA CB Jonathan Joseph plus new DC Wade Phillips resulted in a huge turnaround. San Francisco had a good defense prior to last year, but the addition of rookie pass rusher Aldon Smith, the emergence of LB Navorra Bowman and improved secondary play with some FA additions added to a strong base with Justin Smith and Patrick Willis and made them an elite defense under new DC Vic Fangio. Obviously it's too early to tell if the Pats will have a similar kind of emergence this year, but there certainly seems to be an abundance of playmakers that we haven't seen in a long while, and having more playmakers frees other guys up to play more creative roles than they have in the past. Only time will tell if the defense can put it all together on a sustained basis, but the early signs are certainly encouraging.

 

[mayoclinic]

More from Field Yates:

Defense rises up again. If we were to declare a winner of each practice, Wednesday's would be the defense. Once again the unit looked strong, and communication appeared to be on point throughout the group. After holding the Saints to just six points in the preseason opener and stringing together productive stretches, the defense looks to be building confidence.

Rookie watch. Chandler Jones was spotted dropping deep into coverage on what looked like a zone blitz. Impressive stuff to see him turn his hips and run. ... Dont'a Hightower looks like a quick learner, and rarely seems to be out of position. ... Defensive lineman Justin Francis roared around the edge during a pass-rush drill. ... Defensive end Jake Bequette also impressed during one-on-one pass rushing, showing solid power. ... Nate Ebner looked comfortable again on defense.

Bed check: Wrapping up Day 21 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[BSR]

I don't disagree Mayo. Sometimes it only requires one or two changes to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts. It takes the right mix. It felt that we were close to that mix last year, but some problems in the secondary, I think, really sent into a tail spin. We will see how that goes this year.

 

[Kontradiction]

Considering that we'll be in subpackages most of the season, the front seven looks like it's once again stout (missing maybe another DT, but that's debateable). On that premise alone, the defense should improve a good bit, if not drastically. The play at CB and S will be the key to whether or not this defense makes the biggest leap. McCourty looked absolutely lost in press last year and Dowling was hurt. If McCourty can improve just a little and Dowling can stay healthy, and if the good reports keep coming in about Gregory, then we should have a Super Bowl caliber defense instead of just a complimentary unit at best.

 

[Kontradiction]

Oh, and did anybody happen to catch what technique Bequette was playing in and who he lined up against? He needs some fine tuning, but I watched a lot of him in college and he was an animal with the Razorbacks.

 

[Off The Grid]

When people say they're "cautiously optimistic", I get to feeling stabby.

 

[Off The Grid]

Is anyone else getting sick and tired of our Defense carrying our Offense??

 

[patfanken]

It is absolutely way to early to determine how this defense will be. Yet its really hard NOT to be excited about their prospects.

The good news is, as to seeing improvement, it won't be hard not to, since the bar has been set so low. My early goals were to have them end up in the middle of the pack in total defense (14-18) and in the top 10 in scoring D. The key element in the latter goal will be continuing our stellar record of creating TO's and giving up a lot fewer.

The bad news is that between the rookies, the returning injured, and the FA's, there aren't a lot guys who have a lot of experience playing together. Their ability to "gel" as a unit is critical to their success. This is compounded by the fact that this season there won't be a defensive unit per se, but rather a series of different sub packages featuring very few players who will be on them all. In other words, having so many players rotating in and out of the lineup, could slow down the process of creating the cohesiveness and communication that we'd like to see.

Last season the Pats had just 3 legitimate pass rush threat, and although that were good, none would be considered elite (Carter, Anderson, and Ninko). And although we lost both Carter and Anderson and literally half our sack total, the prospects this season are actually better because we have more than doubled the number of guys who have a skill set that can rush the passer. Now in addition to Ninko, we have Jones, Scott, Bequette, Cunningham, Hightower, Fanene. That's 7 legit guys.

What that does is allow BB to attack the passing game from more directions. It gives him much more flexibility disguise and confuse opponents. How many zone blitzes and overload blitzes did we see last season. All most none. Coverage and secondary depth were so poor that BB could rarely afford to blitz DB's. All those options and bullets in our defensive gun weren't really available for the last 2 season.

All all of this gets better, IMO, when we add Andre Carter in the next 2 weeks. And here's what I'd do with him. He'll probably want something like $6MM on a 2 year deal. I'd give him a million guaranteed and the rest in incentives that can be reached by matching the same kind of production that he gave us last season. Then I'd put him on the PUP. I don't think we'll need Carter for the first half of the season. His value will be for the last half of the season and the playoffs. Let him sit the first 8 weeks. Get strong. Get totally healthy, and THEN fit him in the mix. By then at least one of the 7 rushers I mentioned is likely to be gone, and he'd be a great mid season boost. A great mixture of proven talent and a veteran leader that this defense can use.

OOPS, I think I'm excited

 

[BTTA]

All all of this gets better, IMO, when we add Andre Carter in the next 2 weeks. And here's what I'd do with him. He'll probably want something like $6MM on a 2 year deal. I'd give him a million guaranteed and the rest in incentives that can be reached by matching the same kind of production that he gave us last season. Then I'd put him on the PUP. I don't think we'll need Carter for the first half of the season. His value will be for the last half of the season and the playoffs. Let him sit the first 8 weeks. Get strong. Get totally healthy, and THEN fit him in the mix. By then at least one of the 7 rushers I mentioned is likely to be gone, and he'd be a great mid season boost. A great mixture of proven talent and a veteran leader that this defense can use.

I think he, and his agent, would have good reason to be plenty upset if he's signed to a contract that's highly leveraged with statistical incentives, and then the team PUPS him for half a season.

 

[patfanken]

I think he, and his agent, would have good reason to be plenty upset if he's signed to a contract that's highly leveraged with statistical incentives, and then the team PUPS him for half a season.

Just a minor point that could be handled in the negotiation, with the incentives adjusted for such an eventuality.

Besides I assume that if they followed the plan I mapped out, Carter would be an informed and willing partner to such a strategy.....before he signed. It was just a hypothesis. Who knows if he'll even BE re-signed. With every camp report it seems sadly less likely