Is McDaniels too conservative on offense?

[Ring 6]

BB made the decision not to go for it at midfield, not McD.

It was the right call.

 

[203Pat]

I am pretty neutral with Josh. I don’t think he is the greatest coordinator in the world but I don’t think he is as bad as some people say he is either. I think he has done a good job game planning based on the situations with my only complaint being the red zone offense. Once we get down inside the 10 specifically he seems to dial up conservative runs of some sort of horizontal passes. To me if there is a time to break out a trick play it is down there where the field is condensed and the standard generic plays are easier to stop.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This board has no ****ing patience.

Exactly. Belichick has MacDaniels bringing along Jones the same way he builds his team’s every season.Start with the basics, get them down, move to the next level. What happened to the other rookie QB’s this season is what happens when you just dump an entire offense upon them at once. Beyond that Jones does not have WR’s who stretch the field, and you can’t just throw underneath and across the middle all day or you will get eaten alive. Bourne showed a lot of promise this season, and Meyers can be a solid possession receiver, but they need at least 2 WR’s who can win one on one against #1 and #2 corners, and they need to be able to win outside the hashes and downfield. If they can fill those two roles it will open up the whole field, and the whole playbook. The Patriots need another off-season that is as good as last off-season was to get to the next level. I think Jones is going to be a much better player after a full off-season in their system, and that’s when you can open up the entire playbook, and play much more aggressively on offense. Great job by MacDaniels in bringing him along this season. If they had an Offensive Coordinator of the year award he would deserve it.

 

[Love The Drake]

I am pretty neutral with Josh. I don’t think he is the greatest coordinator in the world but I don’t think he is as bad as some people say he is either. I think he has done a good job game planning based on the situations with my only complaint being the red zone offense. Once we get down inside the 10 specifically he seems to dial up conservative runs of some sort of horizontal passes. To me if there is a time to break out a trick play it is down there where the field is condensed and the standard generic plays are easier to stop.

I respectfully disagree the tighter window makes it easier for disaster to happen on a trick play. This is where I agree with the run plays everyone knows is coming.
For me it’s the fact you have the best rated deep passer in Sec history and everyone he throws a deep ball people ooh and aww over it but we have the kid throwing 4 to 8 yard passes to receivers who aren’t quick or especially fast and tell the receiver go get the extra.
That drives me crazy. What is the thought process here that Mac sees the field so fast to let the ball rip immediately? Death by a thousand paper cuts to the defense?
I love Mcdaniels and I think he is a excellent coach and game planner but the offensive coordinators main job is to call the right play in the right situation and I think this is where he misses the mark.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am pretty neutral with Josh. I don’t think he is the greatest coordinator in the world but I don’t think he is as bad as some people say he is either. I think he has done a good job game planning based on the situations with my only complaint being the red zone offense. Once we get down inside the 10 specifically he seems to dial up conservative runs of some sort of horizontal passes. To me if there is a time to break out a trick play it is down there where the field is condensed and the standard generic plays are easier to stop.

FWIW

NEP Red Zone TD %

2021- 62%- 11th
2020- 54%- 24th
2019- 49%- 26th
2018- 63%- 12th
2017- 63% -3rd
2016- 64% 10th
2015 -65% 4th
2014- 63% 5th
2013- 58% 8th
2012- 68% 3rd
2011- 65% 4th
2010- 62% 6th

2007- 70% 2nd

My hot take is if he has the right talent to execute in the red zone, he takes advantage of it.

Historically speaking, 62% ain't too bad.

 

[chief1]

Seems in most of these losses it's the same recipe.

Conservative offense not going for it then get behind big. Then they start letting Mac throw the ball and run the hurry up and we get back in the game only for the defense to blow it.

I get Mac is a rookie but he has shown the ability to get us back into these games against the colts, Miami, bill, cowboys. Now, the offense has put us in some of these situations. But if we go for it on 4th and 1 maybe we score a field goal and then the game is tied rather than relying on your defense to play flawless

If we play more agressive early I do wonder if we would have won some of these games. Almost seems like they are managing the game to a fault where any mistake by the offense will kill them because they expect to win 20-17.

If we want to win in buffalo next weekend I think we need to come out the gate swinging and put it on the bills to respond.

I agree with this. In the losses its the same script in each game. The offense is very conservative running the ball with little success putting Mac in an obvious passing down and they come after him which leads to a failed offensive possession. When you include the D starting slow playing soft while seeing what the offense has game planned for, it leads to an early deficit. For a team, that we always hear, must play from ahead in order to have success, this is a recipe for defeat.
As an aside, i wonder if its the correct strategy to defer to the 2nd half if they win the toss. This again is counterintuitive to a strategy of playing with a lead rather than from behind.

 

[203Pat]

FWIW

NEP Red Zone TD %

2021- 62%- 11th
2020- 54%- 24th
2019- 49%- 26th
2018- 63%- 12th
2017- 63% -3rd
2016- 64% 10th
2015 -65% 4th
2014- 63% 5th
2013- 58% 8th
2012- 68% 3rd
2011- 65% 4th
2010- 62% 6th

2007- 70% 2nd

My hot take is if he has the right talent to execute in the red zone, he takes advantage of it.

Historically speaking, 62% ain't too bad.

Wow I definitely wouldn't have thought we were that high to be honest but I agree 62%, especially with a rookie QB, is pretty good. I was really hoping Jonnu would have some presence in the red zone so we would have the dual threat of him and HH but we haven't really seen it. I am still holding out hope that one day we draft a receiver that is a man beater. A guy we can line up on the outside and count on him to win a one on one matchup.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wow I definitely wouldn't have thought we were that high to be honest but I agree 62%, especially with a rookie QB, is pretty good. I was really hoping Jonnu would have some presence in the red zone so we would have the dual threat of him and HH but we haven't really seen it. I am still holding out hope that one day we draft a receiver that is a man beater. A guy we can line up on the outside and count on him to win a one on one matchup.

Yea. Just incredible consistency YoY with Brady/Gronk.

 

[borg]

Its a great body but the nfl has caught onto mac and jds tendencies

On Mac's pick 6 in the 1st qtr....

With the CB rotating off his WR responsibility without hesitation and beelining right to where the ball would inevitably end up, it's almost as if Miami knew the play Josh drew up.
Hmmmmmmm?

 

[maust]

This board has no ****ing patience.

Josh is not the problem. Christ.

The board may not have any ****ing patience but at least it does get you contemplating a higher authority. Which, ya know, can be nice...

...or no

 

[Toofy]

Now let's unleash the beast. All new playbook and aggressive passes . Why still keep it a secret Josh. Let em out !!!

Bills beware !!

 

[Toofy]

FWIW

NEP Red Zone TD %

2021- 62%- 11th
2020- 54%- 24th
2019- 49%- 26th
2018- 63%- 12th
2017- 63% -3rd
2016- 64% 10th
2015 -65% 4th
2014- 63% 5th
2013- 58% 8th
2012- 68% 3rd
2011- 65% 4th
2010- 62% 6th

2007- 70% 2nd

My hot take is if he has the right talent to execute in the red zone, he takes advantage of it.

Historically speaking, 62% ain't too bad.

Nice stats. Note the percentages and ranking. 62% was top 6 in 2010 and now it's 11 which means the game has become more pass heavy and more efficient . We can't stick on to the same philosophies we had earlier as the game has evolved.

But I agree it's a rookie , but at least now treat it as just 1 game at a time and start trusting Mac with more of the playbook. The law of averages won't work in post season unless we have elite defense and elite ST .

Defense is above average and ST is average now which means your offense needs to be exceptional .

Mac looking ordinary has coincided with Judon being ordinary . So if we are not getting the defense to carry us, let's hope offense can do some heavy lifting in playoffs?

 

[catent]

I'm not sure how it relates to McDaniels, but I do tend to feel that Mac thrives when he's given the green light to play aggressively. He seems to have a bit of a gunslinger vibe to him, mentally and in terms of how he plays. Folks mention Brady, Brees, and Manning, and I definitely see elements of those guys in Mac ... you know who else I see in Mac? Tony Romo (in a wholly positive sense). The slight c-cks of the ball on his pump fakes, eye movement, mannerisms. It's not 1:1, but he has some elements of Romo in him. At any rate, Mac seems to really play well when there's nothing to lose and they start pushing the ball downfield. Incorporating that into the offense while still trying to remain efficient seems like a good idea.

To quote Bledsoe, "f*ck it, go out there and sling it".

 

[Huckleberry1]

Wow I definitely wouldn't have thought we were that high to be honest but I agree 62%, especially with a rookie QB, is pretty good. I was really hoping Jonnu would have some presence in the red zone so we would have the dual threat of him and HH but we haven't really seen it. I am still holding out hope that one day we draft a receiver that is a man beater. A guy we can line up on the outside and count on him to win a one on one matchup.

I think they need to start getting a much stronger performance from their receivers outside the hashes and downfield to open up the middle more for Smith and Henry. I think Belichick planned on going with the two TE offense with a veteran QB but ended up getting Mac, and was surprised when he was able to win the job as a rookie. Now that he has a season under his belt I expect more of the two TE offense next season, when he has the full playbook to work with.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm not sure how it relates to McDaniels, but I do tend to feel that Mac thrives when he's given the green light to play aggressively. He seems to have a bit of a gunslinger vibe to him, mentally and in terms of how he plays. Folks mention Brady, Brees, and Manning, and I definitely see elements of those guys in Mac ... you know who else I see in Mac? Tony Romo (in a wholly positive sense). The slight c-cks of the ball on his pump fakes, eye movement, mannerisms. It's not 1:1, but he has some elements of Romo in him. At any rate, Mac seems to really play well when there's nothing to lose and they start pushing the ball downfield. Incorporating that into the offense while still trying to remain efficient seems like a good idea.

To quote Bledsoe, "f*ck it, go out there and sling it".

I actually see Peyton Manning in Jones. Brady is the greater QB but Manning’s ability to put touch on a wide variety of throws was better than Brady’s. Brady, on the other hand was a much better game manager than Manning, and I mean that in the most positive sense. Manning was out there trying to score as many points possible as fast as possible, whereas Brady would go out with a lead and eat up clock, and kill the opposing team’s chances of mounting the comeback, and he could also speed it up, go no huddle, and come back from almost any situation. I’d like to see Jones develop Brady’s game management skills while continuing to refine his passing skills and ability to accurately read defense’s in coming years.

 

[BigPeteG]

Mac absolutely has some Peyton/Eli in him. All of his impressive throws have been touch/accuracy throws.

There are people here who hate Josh but if you watch some of the film breakdowns - he has some excellent plays drawn up and our WRs actually get open fairly well. Our WR group is way better then what Brady had the last couple of years. WAY BETTER..

What has been going on here is a lot of people have been blaming Josh or the WRs - when Mac deserves a good deal of blame. He knows it - and the people that study the film know it. Yes he has done well for a rookie. But on balance compared to other QBs his play has not been the reason for the Patriots success.

Guys like Kirk Cousins or Matt Ryan would have done better this year with the same team. It's not fair because those guys are veterans. But it is the truth.

 

[tasmlab]

I'm all for aggressive play calling if it results in exciting plays and big scores.

But then if I'm less into it if it means lots incompletions and interceptions that a rookie QB with OK/average talent might produce.

What's the outcome?

 

[203Pat]

I think they need to start getting a much stronger performance from their receivers outside the hashes and downfield to open up the middle more for Smith and Henry. I think Belichick planned on going with the two TE offense with a veteran QB but ended up getting Mac, and was surprised when he was able to win the job as a rookie. Now that he has a season under his belt I expect more of the two TE offense next season, when he has the full playbook to work with.

I agree we need more out of those outside receivers but I don’t think we are going to get it. Those guys are who they are no matter what contract they were given. Until we get a real number one option on offense Agholor and Bourne will never be able to draw any real consideration on the outsides from any defensive coordinator.

 

[Love The Drake]

On Mac's pick 6 in the 1st qtr....

With the CB rotating off his WR responsibility without hesitation and beelining right to where the ball would inevitably end up, it's almost as if Miami knew the play Josh drew up.
Hmmmmmmm?

I agree we need more out of those outside receivers but I don’t think we are going to get it. Those guys are who they are no matter what contract they were given. Until we get a real number one option on offense Agholor and Bourne will never be able to draw any real consideration on the outsides from any defensive coordinator.

I read Calvin Ridley would be interested in playing for New England.
If we sign Ridley and draft Williams from Alabama are woes are fixed.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm all for aggressive play calling if it results in exciting plays and big scores.

But then if I'm less into it if it means lots incompletions and interceptions that a rookie QB with OK/average talent might produce.

What's the outcome?

To me the key to our offense is getting chunk plays on early downs. The biggest hold up to our offense during the BB era are the times the gameplay is focussed on staying on schedule. 2nd and 10 is a run to avoid 3rd and long. Lot of running and short passes on 1st and 2nd down. In theory it works because you get convertible 3rd downs but relying on 5-6 3rd down conversions on a drive usually ends up with a drop, tipped pass, sack, or misfire along the way.
Throwing down field every down or bombing the ball deep isn’t really a legit game plan as much as posters would want you to think it.
But where the offense becomes dynamic is hitting seems and intermediate crossers on first and ESPECIALLY 2nd down. We have a potent running game that can make this happen. It’s not how much you throw, it’s when you throw. 3rd and 5 repeatedly is tough for any QB. Throwing against a D that has to be neutral run/pass is where chunk plays happen, and especially against good teams, chunk plays win games.