Is Josh McDaniels any good?

[supafly]

I get that SF but you know things can always slide either way in this type of context, the assumption that McDaniel’s is not the primary factor behind those decisions has not been anymore validated than my assumption that he was.

Yes, of course. I just think that Belichick is still in control 100%, and that Brady himself checks out of certain plays all the time too--so that is the only reason why I chose to take that theory.

I'd expect that you're definitely right that JMcD does the high majority of the play calling of course, but due to the overall checks/balances system, I also think that others are accountable too. If there were something that Belichick didn't agree with during one week, I would assume that he would put an end to it the next. Overall though, I do think that McDaniels, Brady, and Belichick are pretty much in tune with what we need to do, and his experience here is definitely one of his pluses.

Either way, I hear what you're saying about McDaniels and some of his mistakes, just like any other coach/player. I also think that he's been very successful too, and that he's certainly "good enough" to bring us pretty far. As far as any of the fan made rumors of him potentially coaching the team--no, I would not be comfortable with that personally. I think that there are better HC'ing candidates for sure.

 

[MassPats38]

Brady6-

Why do you believe the OC has any input in personnel decisions? The claim of late has been that nobody will stand up to BB in the organization since Pioli left. That BB is the lone decider as to who stays and who goes.

There has been plenty written on the war room, and the relationship between BB and Pioli. Nick Caserio took over Pioli's role.

You could speculate that McDaniels had something to do with Lloyd and Amendola joining the team, as he was on a prior team with both, but that may have been solely a result of insider scouting status and knowledge of their abilities - not some decider status as to the transactions.

Again, there is plenty written on BB and how he worked with Pioli in personnel matters. OCs ran the offense. Nothing more. Weis and McDaniels have never been identified, to my knowledge, as having votes in that personnel process. Any claim of some quantum shift in the decisionmaking process is pure speculation as you assume, without basis, that the OC has taken on what should be Caserio's job. If McDaniels is to blame for bad personnel decision, then you need some basis for saying BB changed his personnel process or that theory is no more than a work of fiction. BB's personnel decisionmaking is not a complete black box given the books and A Football Life offered to address the subject. If something, anywhere, suggest that McDaniels was brought back as OC and some form of personnel consigliere, I haven't seen it. If you have seen such a story, that might resolve your discussion with Deus.

 

[supafly]

You could speculate that McDaniels had something to do with Lloyd and Amendola joining the team, as he was on a prior team with both, but that may have been solely a result of insider scouting status and knowledge of their abilities - not some decider status as to the transactions.

Yes, exactly.

I believe that it was "A factor," but not "THE factor."

Experience in one's system will always likely be taken into consideration, especially in an area where many have previously failed to pick up the concepts, but I hardly think that all of a sudden Josh McDaniels was given the reins in personnel decisions.

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't know Josh McDaniels on a personal level so I can't say whether our awful run to pass ratio is because of his arrogance/stubborness. All I can say is that we need to run the damn ball more.

 

[supafly]

I don't know Josh McDaniels on a personal level so I can't say whether our awful run to pass ratio is because of his arrogance/stubborness. All I can say is that we need to run the damn ball more.

Seeing the fact that we're running at a 4.7 clip in the 2nd half when the run game is thrown out the window is disturbing to say the least, and hopefully it is something that is addressed. No one has more second half passes in the NFL than Brady this year.

That said, they obviously feel that they could have executed better and have been successful. When your receivers continue to run the wrong routes and drop balls, it makes things a lot tougher.

I want to see those rookies out in the rain on their day off hitting the JUGGS machine before the bye, watching extra film study, and practicing like their lives depend on it. I don't want to see a shot at 7-2 blown going into the bye losing to the likes of MIA and/or PIT. These 2 games are important.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Your post shows precisely what I claimed. You can't read or you can't comprehend, which are basically the same for the purposes on online discussion. Either way, you're a waste.

Bye

lmao-I'm not the one who scours this forum looking to pick fights every day, which is all you do. You have never had a discussion about football only catfight after catfight after catfight where you try to parse words and meanings in the hope that you will scrape out a semantic "victory." Good luck with that, must be a really enjoyable endeavor to devote most of your life to it.

 

[FalconHeavy]

lmao-I'm not the one who scours this forum looking to pick fights every day, which is all you do. You have never had a discussion about football only catfight after catfight after catfight where you try to parse words and meanings in the hope that you will scrape out a semantic "victory." Good luck with that, must be a really enjoyable endeavor to devote most of your life to it.

burn !!!

did I miss any smilies ??

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Is Josh McDaniels any good?

Reminds me of Josh Boyer and most of us criticizing him last year including myself. Look at that secondary now. Crazy when you have talent and depth huh. Anyone want him fired now?

All rookies with a veteran here and there for the first part of the season and we are 5-2. Lets wait until we have talent aka rookies gaining experience, Amendola back, Vereen back, Gronk getting some more game time etc. I'd say play calling will improve then. Just a hunch.

P.S. You cant simply go from Welker,Hernandez,Gronk to what we had for the first part of the season and expect great results. Hold your horses people.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Reminds me of Josh Boyer and most of us criticizing him last year including myself. Look at that secondary now. Crazy when you have talent and depth huh. Anyone want him fired now?

All rookies with a veteran here and there for the first part of the season and we are 5-2. Lets wait until we have talent aka rookies gaining experience, Amendola back, Vereen back, Gronk getting some more game time etc. I'd say play calling will improve then. Just a hunch.

P.S. You cant simply go from Welker,Hernandez,Gronk to what we had for the first part of the season and expect great results. Hold your horses people.

Right on the money. I think Belichick went young at WR because he wanted to reset the unit for the remainder of Brady's career and he thought he would have Hernandez, Gronkowski for his 2 TE's and Amendola and possibly Edelman to offset the loss of Welker, as well as Vereen to replace Woodhead's production, and instead he ended up with just Edelman and the rookies as the options for the first part of the season, when i really think he was expecting to bring them along somewhat slowly. It has been a perfect storm for the offense for the first 6 weeks of the season and while they certainly haven't lit it up by any means they have been able to get enough done to help them get to 5-2, although i would put the onus for both of their losses largely on them. We'll see how they develop over the rest of the season but i do expect them to improve significantly if they can get healthier.

 

[Mack Herron]

perhaps somebody can explain this to me:

Christopher Price ?@cpriceNFL 2m

Last yr through 7 games, Ridley had 141 touches (catches & carries). This year, it's 84.

In the two losses, our run/pass ratio was off the charts unbalanced for no apparent reason. Kinda makes me think McD has a Jones for TB (which I could understand if we had reliable receivers).

 

[Zeus]

Right on the money. I think Belichick went young at WR because he wanted to reset the unit for the remainder of Brady's career and he thought he would have Hernandez, Gronkowski for his 2 TE's and Amendola and possibly Edelman to offset the loss of Welker, as well as Vereen to replace Woodhead's production, and instead he ended up with just Edelman and the rookies as the options for the first part of the season, when i really think he was expecting to bring them along somewhat slowly. It has been a perfect storm for the offense for the first 6 weeks of the season and while they certainly haven't lit it up by any means they have been able to get enough done to help them get to 5-2, although i would put the onus for both of their losses largely on them. We'll see how they develop over the rest of the season but i do expect them to improve significantly if they can get healthier.

A concise yet complete summary of what has happened to the Patriot receiving corps since the AFC championship game.

 

[Ozymandias]

Disclaimer: This post is merely speculation on where it went wrong against the Jets and not based on any insider information, but solely on game tape.

Now that that's out of the way, the Patriots seemed to be trying play calls that they never attempted before during the season on Sunday. The initial game plan was working efficiently when the pass protection was doing its job in the first half whilst Brady was spreading the ball around and the running game was more involved.

The Jets made necessary adjustments to that scheme and attacked them successfully in the second half, which in turn led the Patriots to make their own adjustments and to try several plays they probably normally wouldn't. Due to the Jets' pass rush, Brady began to force more throws to Gronkowski even when he was double-covered, resulting in less diversity in ball distrubution and the running game was pretty much abandoned altogether despite having a lead at half time.

I think (re:disclaimer above), the Jets had great insight on the play calling the Patriots normally would run *coughDudfeldcough* and in turn forced the Patriots to change up things which resulted in too many errors and less efficiency. Zach was a in-game non-factor, but he probably was a great resource for them to fall back on.

As it relates to McDaniels, the plan was logical. It was the execution that was the issue. Some of that is obviously experience related, but they just didn't get the job done. In my opinion, it seemed like they got too finesse with the play calling in the second half, instead of sticking with what worked for them earlier.

 

[PatsFan2]

Disclaimer: This post is merely speculation on where it went wrong against the Jets and not based on any insider information, but solely on game tape.

Now that that's out of the way, the Patriots seemed to be trying play calls that they never attempted before during the season on Sunday. The initial game plan was working efficiently when the pass protection was doing its job in the first half whilst Brady was spreading the ball around and the running game was more involved.

The Jets made necessary adjustments to that scheme and attacked them successfully in the second half, which in turn led the Patriots to make their own adjustments and to try several plays they probably normally wouldn't. Due to the Jets' pass rush, Brady began to force more throws to Gronkowski even when he was double-covered, resulting in less diversity in ball distrubution and the running game was pretty much abandoned altogether despite having a lead at half time.

I think (re:disclaimer above), the Jets had great insight on the play calling the Patriots normally would run *coughDudfeldcough* and in turn forced the Patriots to change up things which resulted in too many errors and less efficiency. Zach was a in-game non-factor, but he probably was a great resource for them to fall back on.

As it relates to McDaniels, the plan was logical. It was the execution that was the issue. Some of that is obviously experience related, but they just didn't get the job done. In my opinion, it seemed like they got too finesse with the play calling in the second half, instead of sticking with what worked for them earlier.

Great post maybe Dudfeld is good for something after all but Brady getting tunnel vision on Gronk made it very easy on the Defense if they sensed that the other patriot skill players were not even an after thought. Brady to Gronk was like playing Madden online when your oponent keeps throwing to the same player time after time after time. Its just a matter of time before it gets picked off. What our Offense did in the Second half was play video game football and peope who play like that in the video games loses 90% of the time.

 

[Huckleberry1]

perhaps somebody can explain this to me:


In the two losses, our run/pass ratio was off the charts unbalanced for no apparent reason. Kinda makes me think McD has a Jones for TB (which I could understand if we had reliable receivers).

Ridley's carries are down because of the fumbles early, his injury, and because MacD has gone to pass heavy gameplans in a couple of games.

 

[mgteich]

It was not Josh's decision to go into the season without any tight ends, and with Amendola, Edelman and three rookies as our wide receivers. It was not Josh's decision to depend on Vereen and Washington as our 3rd down backs this year.

IMHO, Josh is doing the best he can with what he's got.

Belichick made lots of personnel decisions in the long off-season, including lots and lots of decisions after we lost Hernandez. The result is 5-2 and being a favorite to be in the playoffs and win at least 10 games. This seems likes business as usual to me. Of course, for many posters, the team's result have been a failed effort since the 2004 season.

IF, and that is an IF, we have Amendola AND Vereen added, we will be considerably stronger. Of course, given that we have 5 wide receivers and 5 running backs, it seems unlikely that all 10 will be healthy, ever. To me, it is simply using one of our favorites excuses when we blame injuries. The REASON that we have so many running backs is because they often get injured. The REASON we have so many receivers is because it is not infrequent for one to be out injured. The CHOICE was for us to rely on three rookies. This deficiency has FINALLY be corrected with the addition of Collie.
=================

 

[Boston Boxer]

I know Tom Brady hasn't been Tom Brady lately (although he did give you a little taster against the Saints) but seriously I think no one has sucked as bad as McDaniels this season.

His play calling BLOWS MY MIND. Someone tell me why yesterday when Ridley started to get rolling against the toughest front in the league he decided to go empty back and let Tom sling it like a Madden game when clearly he and our receivers aren't exactly playing Madden-esque football right now?

I would honestly have more faith in letting Tom run a Denver style offense where they just say 'Hey Peyton, what you think' than McDaniels calling his god awful plays right now.

Surely red zone creativity and atrocious 3rd down percentage comes down to the lack of play call inspiration to get guys open from your OC because i refuse to believe that Brady who has been all time great in both categories is the reason.

On the contraire we have to give a huge thumbs up to Matt Patricia for the way he's finally got his D playing the way it should.

not only is he good...he will be the next head coach of the Pats when BB retires/dies. bet on it

 

[JMC00]

It was not Josh's decision to depend on Vereen and Washington as our 3rd down backs this year.

He may have preferred Woodhead over Washington but I think he was/is more than okay with Vereen.

 

[ausbacker]

If I have realized anything in my years following the NFL it is that almost every OC abandons the run when they shouldn't. Hell, look at the stupidity of the Vikings last night. They put the ball in the hands of Josh Freeman ahead of Adrian Peterson. They didn't call anything interesting to put AP in a position to succeed when their vanilla runs weren't working.

It is what it is.

 

[mgteich]

So, you're comparing Brady with Freeman, and Ridley with Peterson?????

Yes, it is reasonable to put the balls in the hands of your superstar, Peterson for the vikings and Brady for the patriots.

It is NOT a a matter of run vs. pass.

If I have realized anything in my years following the NFL it is that almost every OC abandons the run when they shouldn't. Hell, look at the stupidity of the Vikings last night. They put the ball in the hands of Josh Freeman ahead of Adrian Peterson. They didn't call anything interesting to put AP in a position to succeed when their vanilla runs weren't working.

It is what it is.

 

[ausbacker]

So, you're comparing Brady with Freeman, and Ridley with Peterson?????

Yes, it is reasonable to put the balls in the hands of your superstar, Peterson for the vikings and Brady for the patriots.

It is NOT a a matter of run vs. pass.

Yeah, I am comparing a career bum with Tom Brady and I am comparing a very good RB with clearly the greatest RB talent of his generation.

:bricks: