Is Caldwell done?

[Sean Pa Patriot]

And both will be on the team, Sean, as long as they do solid in training camp. They are hard workers and I am sure they will do fine. Here is how I see the Depth Chart at WR next year.

1. Donte Stallworth
2. Reche Caldwell
3. Wes Welker
4 and 5. Jabar Gaffney or Kelley Washington, not sure.
Jackson starts out on PUP.

Like I said Kelly Washington could be a dud like David Terell, but they are intially signing him to a five yr deal, Terell was a flat out 1 yr deal.. I think even the enternal optimist would think we suspect anything out of Chad Jackson this yr or beyond... I know in the 2003 draft , I wanted Kelly Washington, but the neck thing scared him off. I would love to see his potential in this offesne..

 

[Kdo5]

Like I said Kelly Washington could be a dud like David Terell, but they are intially signing him to a five yr deal, Terell was a flat out 1 yr deal.. I think even the enternal optimist would think we suspect anything out of Chad Jackson this yr or beyond... I know in the 2003 draft , I wanted Kelly Washington, but the neck thing scared him off. I would love to see his potential in this offesne..

Thats possible. And it is also possible that Donte Stallworth gets in trouble and gets his third strike, therefore being suspended. He may be on his first strike or second strike. Its possible that Caldwell or Gaffney stink it up in training camp or the preseason. It is also possible that CJ is out for the entire season. Anything can happen, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[solman]

Do you ever even think before you post? Seemingly every time you insult others, you do so with a mistake. It's almost uncanny.

1.) Watson, for example, cost more than 600k/year with all the added bonuses. He'll cost over a million this season, and cost even more last year than he will this year, according to Miguel's salary cap page. Caldwell was a half million dollars cheaper than Watson last season, FYI.

Again I am insulted by people who don't check their facts.

Per Miguel, Watson will cost:

$560K in 2007
$660K in 2008 and
$760K in 2009.

plus work out bonuses (which I ignore for simplicity).

We have previously paid Watson $1.9M in bonuses which will count against the salary cap during 2007-2009. However, this cap hit is due whether or not Watson continues to play for the Patriots.

There are details to consider, specifically which years the $1.9M counts against the cap. But since the Patriots can easily move money between 2007, 2008 and 2009 (via trivial restructuring and LTBEs), these details don't actually impact the amount of cap space we will have available.

If you compare the total cost of cutting Watson before this season, and the total cost of cutting him after this season, it will cost the Patriots $560K more to cut him after this season, and it will cost the Patriot's salary cap $560K more over the course of the 2007-2009 seasons.

At the risk of repeating myself, the salary cap is just an accounting mechanism for tracking the actual cash paid to players. Having Watson during 2007 actually costs us $560K.

2.) To argue that the only reason he got so many catches is that he was Brady's #1 target is both asinine and incorrect. Brady's #1 target was Watson. Caldwell ended up with more catches because Watson got hurt. Furthermore, the only reason that ANY receiver gets as many catches as he does is because the quarterback throws him the ball.

I say that Brady's #1 target is the guy he threw the most passes to, and the guy who caught the most passes.

You say that its Watson, presumably because he got the most passes at the begining of the season.

Then you say that my definition of #1 target is "both asinine and incorrect".

Then you upbraid me for insulting others.

Well gosh, now I'm really going to have to take your opinion seriously.

JWS

 

[solman]

You are not going to find another receiver with the qualifications of Caldwell for fewer than $1.9 million. No way in hell. Not in this market, not with this offense, not with the pool of talent available in FA (or the draft for that matter).

Its a week and a half into the FA season, and you are telling me with absolute certainty that there are NO PLAYERS out there who cost less than $1.9M, and who could replace Caldwell?

Last year we got Caldwell and Gaffney for a TOTAL of $1.32M.

After all the great moves that Belioli have made over the years, I'm surprised that Patriots nation doesn't have more faith in their ability to find gems in the rough.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

And both will be on the team, Sean, as long as they do solid in training camp. They are hard workers and I am sure they will do fine. Here is how I see the Depth Chart at WR next year.

1. Donte Stallworth
2. Reche Caldwell
3. Wes Welker
4 and 5. Jabar Gaffney or Kelley Washington, not sure.
Jackson starts out on PUP.

Yup, that's exacly how I see it for game 1. Barring injury, Donte and Reche will be lining up on the first play from scrimage next year. Welker too if it's a 3 receiver set.

Gaffney (4) and Washington (5) are on the team as well. CJ will be on PUP or IR and I wouldn't be suprised if there is a #6 on the roster too.

Given the injury concerns with our WR corps, the FO just looks to be stacking em up early like they do DB's, and we'll see who floats up. We were real thin all year there on 06. I won't happen again anytime soon. The cap hits on all of them this year are manageble for them as a group and won't really be an issue.

Troy Brown?????? Retiring. That fate was sealed the moment Welker got signed, whether we like it or not.

 

[ClevTrev]

Troy Brown?????? Retiring. That fate was sealed the moment Welker got signed, whether we like it or not.

True. Welker and Brown are the same type of player, and there appears to be room for only one at the inn.

 

[cubedoggy]

I rather think I've mopped the floor with you.

You can take it as a sign of boredom.

I had originally figured that after a few hundred posts, somebody would come up with a better argument than:

You are a boor, and have become boring, as well.

 

[cubedoggy]

Its a week and a half into the FA season, and you are telling me with absolute certainty that there are NO PLAYERS out there who cost less than $1.9M, and who could replace Caldwell?

Apparently, according to your buddy Keegs, his grandmother is available.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Apparently, according to your buddy Keegs, his grandmother is available.

well, you know, if Keegs says it, it must be true. Bank on it.

 

[wrangler]

No.................

 

[Lampshade]

I literally cannot believe this thread.

People were mocking Reche for one pre-season drop, then he goes out in the regular season (and first two playoff games) and proves to be every bit as productive as David Givens ever was, then rounded his season off with a pair of drops. People are now diminishing, if not totally ignoring, eveything that happened in between those drops just so they can tell themselves they were right about Caldwell all along.

 

[pats1]

O.K you're right he'll be on the practice squad.

I'll let you bask in your own strange opinions.

 

[pats1]

Lets put the wr situation in perspective

Stallworth - Lock

Welker - Lock

Washington- Semi Lock, but could be another David Terell , and stink the joint up in camp

Jackson will be PUP or IR, which there are too many conflicting reports of the knee..

Caldwell/Gaffney- I would like to see a full training camp by Gaffney, and Caldwell would be a good third or fourth wr

The rest are gone, I think Troy Brown retires...

Welker is the 3rd WR - the slot - although you can call him a "#1" if you want.

Caldwell, Stallworth, and Welker are all locks. Washington, Gaffney, Jackson, and the rest are not.

 

[pats1]

Im not to Jabar crazy either, but would choose him to play over Reche if i had to pick.

You're drunk with Gaffney's playoff performances. Would you say that same thing in December? November?

What player doesnt have a big game against the team that dropped them?

Right. So Caldwell doesn't deserve to stick around because of that. He deserves to stick around because he had big games the rest of the season.

So what if Jabar wasnt the one who caught that pass to help the Pats seal there win in Sandiego. I'll take the the reciever who gets open on 3rd and long to keep drives alive before Reche and his one famous catch.

And Caldwell obviously was open more last season.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Caldwell won't be cut.

Next question.

I agree.

This pathetic thread is akin to the "There is no way David Patten makes this team" thread of old.

As you may recall, Patten made the team that year. He's probably still be on this team had he not opted to leave for more money from Mr. Ignoramous.

Caldwell will have to be cleanly beaten out of his starting WR role. That may well happen, but it is not guaranteed. Furthermore, 1.9 mil for a solid vet WR is not very much money. Patten was making 1.5 mil when *some* were clamoring for us to cut him.

Stallworth, Caldwell, Welker, Gaffney, and Brown/Washington/Kight is how it looks right now with Jackson on PUP. I see Gaffney pushing Caldwell for the other outside WR spot, but those top 4 are pretty safe IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Again I am insulted by people who don't check their facts.

Per Miguel, Watson will cost:

$560K in 2007
$660K in 2008 and
$760K in 2009.

plus work out bonuses (which I ignore for simplicity).

We have previously paid Watson $1.9M in bonuses which will count against the salary cap during 2007-2009. However, this cap hit is due whether or not Watson continues to play for the Patriots.

There are details to consider, specifically which years the $1.9M counts against the cap. But since the Patriots can easily move money between 2007, 2008 and 2009 (via trivial restructuring and LTBEs), these details don't actually impact the amount of cap space we will have available.

If you compare the total cost of cutting Watson before this season, and the total cost of cutting him after this season, it will cost the Patriots $560K more to cut him after this season, and it will cost the Patriot's salary cap $560K more over the course of the 2007-2009 seasons.

At the risk of repeating myself, the salary cap is just an accounting mechanism for tracking the actual cash paid to players. Having Watson during 2007 actually costs us $560K.



I say that Brady's #1 target is the guy he threw the most passes to, and the guy who caught the most passes.

You say that its Watson, presumably because he got the most passes at the begining of the season.

Then you say that my definition of #1 target is "both asinine and incorrect".

Then you upbraid me for insulting others.

Well gosh, now I'm really going to have to take your opinion seriously.

JWS

You're wrong about the money, and you even concede you're ignoring bonuses for various reasons. Your comments are full of insulting language towards others despite being erroneous, and you wonder why words like asinine are sent your way? Having Watson in 2007 only costs (to use your number) an ADDITIONAL 560k moving forward. However, as anyone who's ever paid for anything knows, when you put in a down payment, that money is spent. The house doesn't cost $1000 a month, it costs $1000 a month plus 25% down. You ignoring the down payment doesn't make it go away.

And, again, regarding the #1 receiver issue, Watson played fewer games due to injury. However, prior to being hurt, he was the team's leading receiver. According to you, that makes him the #1 receiver. Caldwell was #2, and only ended up with more catches because he played 3 more games. You're not even consistent in your own arguments.

 

[solman]

You're wrong about the money, and you even concede you're ignoring bonuses for various reasons. Your comments are full of insulting language towards others despite being erroneous, and you wonder why words like asinine are sent your way? Having Watson in 2007 only costs (to use your number) an ADDITIONAL 560k moving forward. However, as anyone who's ever paid for anything knows, when you put in a down payment, that money is spent. The house doesn't cost $1000 a month, it costs $1000 a month plus 25% down. You ignoring the down payment doesn't make it go away.

You cut or retain players based on MARGINAL cost, NOT total cost.

In 2011, AD's salary and workout bonus total $6M. His cap hit is $10.4M.

If a free agent with identical skills only costs $7M, BB will keep AD on the roster.

Why? Because even though his cap number is $10.4M, the marginal cost (in both cap and cash) of keeping him one additional season is $6M, a discount to the free agent market.

And, again, regarding the #1 receiver issue, Watson played fewer games due to injury. However, prior to being hurt, he was the team's leading receiver. According to you, that makes him the #1 receiver. Caldwell was #2, and only ended up with more catches because he played 3 more games. You're not even consistent in your own arguments.

If you actually believe what you've written, then Brady has had six different #1 target in some seasons.

When I refer to #1 target, I generally do so on a per season basis.

Its a trivial semantic difference between you and me (and most people who watch football).

Its hardly something that would be described as "asinine".

 

[satz]

Even after the loss in the AFC champion game when we lost, brady said he wished he had gone to reche then troy on WEEI.I think brady`s assumption that troy would have automatically given the fist down might have made him the goto guy even when he saw reche in man coverage.

Next year i see reche step in more ,also brady over the year has appreciated the effort of reche all the time on weei . Don`t be suprised if reche replaces troy in some key 3rd downs like the SD game..The only way wes is going to get this is by proving it to brady and playing in the slot he is more of a outlet then first option.

rather than most who believed it was his skill i still believe it was the stage that had an effect on reche drop.

If some believe that reche and jabbar have topped out are going to be very suprised.We run a very complex offence for Wr similar to LB in defence.Yet we hardly had probowl , top 10 LB to be successfull .we prefer smarter ,vets in LB crew who can grasp our defence.Similarly we need WR who can understand our offence they need not be Top 10 to contribute to the team or win a SB.

for all the people manning is not brady or visa versa.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm not going to weigh in on either side this time but I thought this post by a *gasp* Colts fan was funny describing that play:

"It didn't matter who they signed, ANYBODY is better than reche aka i'm wide open...wow so wide open......oh god i'm nervous everybody is looking at me....oh **** here comes the snap.....hes throwing it over here...i'm so wide open....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh Caldwell"
-CircleCity317
http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190990

 

[frankiesfly]

Why, why would you take Gaffney over Caldwell. Give me three good reasons that dont involve 2 dropped balls. Gaffney drops them too. I was at the Texans game when Brady hit him right in the hands on a long bomb and he dropped it. The only difference is the game that the drop was in. Want reasons as to why Caldwell is better than Gaffney and should not be cut?

1. Caldwell is faster than Gaffney.

2. Brady's favorite target is Caldwell, NOT Gaffney.

3. Caldwell was productive the entire season and he DID convert plenty of third downs. He wasnt a world beater early on but when he did catch the ball early in the season, lots were for first downs.

4. Caldwell is a better deep threat. 60 yard TD against the Titans, 50 yard TD against the Packers, 40 yard pass against the Chargers.

And I find your excuse for Caldwell doing a great job in the Chargers game absolutely pathetic. Every person who goes up against his former team plays great against them. Ever stop to think that Caldwell stepped up to play great in that game? Or is there some almighty force that predetermined Caldwell would play that well against his former team?

Seems like the front office agrees with me by signing 3 wide outs this off season. Caldwell was a one season wonder and when he dont make the team i'll make sure to be the first to write a thread about it. I never said Caldwell didnt have a good game against the Chargers. I didnt even bring up anything about dropped balls. I guess you must of confused my post with someone elses, or do you just like putting words in peoples mouths? Playing against your old team does give you that extra motivation to make plays. Its something that is always brought up and talked about, when a player is going up against his former team. I guess to you its some holy ghost. Oh no, thats right it was some almighty force. Reche is going to have beat out both Gaffney and Jackson, and it wont happen.