Interesting Pepper Johnson interview

[mcmurtry86]

The absurdity of the "cost us a super bowl" argument is that it is based on the idea that Butler's presence would have resulted in better pass D

Perhaps (probably?) an accurate statement. But what that statement ignores is that the ENTIRE game plays out differently if he's in there from the opening kick off. There's absolutely no way you can say with certainty how the game plays out if he's in there from the beginning so immediately that argument is a waste of time

So then you're left with "well they should have put him in on this play or that drive etc". Again, no way to know how those plays and drives go with him in there and Belichick loses all integrity with his players by allowing an "important" guy to break the rules while a lesser important guy (say, Jordan Richards) would have not have been put in if he broke the same rule

Finally, it's positively laughable that anyone, after nearly 2 decades, would suggest that Belichick would intentionally sabotage the team or bench a player for no reason. He's the most competitive, dedicated to winning at all costs coach of this generation. (Maybe of all time). Sane fans, long time fans, should understand that he always makes decisions based on long term success of the franchise. And looking weak of allowing "key" players to get away with stuff that other guys don't, undercuts his entire teaching - next man up, always be prepared, make the best of it, do your job, etc. All those cliches and mantras don't mean squat if you pick and choose when to use them

So if you believe that his rigid philosophy of always following certain rules (you don't play if you do XYZ) "cost" them a Super Bowl. You should also believe that the same rigid style has given them 8 super bowl appearances and 5 wins. He gets his players and coaches to buy in 100%, that's why this had been the most successful run of all time when considering the salary cap environment. It's literally the best ever stretch all things considered and it all goes back to the ridigity of Bekichicks style. So when you crap on his decision to bench Butler, you're crapping on the primary foundation of what has made this 19 year stretch so amazing. Of course those same crap on Belichick "fans" are apparently psychic and all-knowing since they "know" Butler was the difference (and totally ignore the butterfly effect) between winning and losing. So they should "know" all of this anyway and still choose to spew it across the internet despite how silly it sounds

 

[Kontradiction]

The absurdity of the "cost us a super bowl" argument is that it is based on the idea that Butler's presence would have resulted in better pass D

Perhaps (probably?) an accurate statement. But what that statement ignores is that the ENTIRE game plays out differently if he's in there from the opening kick off. There's absolutely no way you can say with certainty how the game plays out if he's in there from the beginning so immediately that argument is a waste of time

So then you're left with "well they should have put him in on this play or that drive etc". Again, no way to know how those plays and drives go with him in there and Belichick loses all integrity with his players by allowing an "important" guy to break the rules while a lesser important guy (say, Jordan Richards) would have not have been put in if he broke the same rule

Finally, it's positively laughable that anyone, after nearly 2 decades, would suggest that Belichick would intentionally sabotage the team or bench a player for no reason. He's the most competitive, dedicated to winning at all costs coach of this generation. (Maybe of all time). Sane fans, long time fans, should understand that he always makes decisions based on long term success of the franchise. And looking weak of allowing "key" players to get away with stuff that other guys don't, undercuts his entire teaching - next man up, always be prepared, make the best of it, do your job, etc. All those cliches and mantras don't mean squat if you pick and choose when to use them

So if you believe that his rigid philosophy of always following certain rules (you don't play if you do XYZ) "cost" them a Super Bowl. You should also believe that the same rigid style has given them 8 super bowl appearances and 5 wins. He gets his players and coaches to buy in 100%, that's why this had been the most successful run of all time when considering the salary cap environment. It's literally the best ever stretch all things considered and it all goes back to the ridigity of Bekichicks style. So when you crap on his decision to bench Butler, you're crapping on the primary foundation of what has made this 19 year stretch so amazing. Of course those same crap on Belichick "fans" are apparently psychic and all-knowing since they "know" Butler was the difference (and totally ignore the butterfly effect) between winning and losing. So they should "know" all of this anyway and still choose to spew it across the internet despite how silly it sounds

The run defense was going to be a weakness no matter what. They just didn't have the horses. The secondary was the strength of the team... until they took Butler out and then replaced him with a combination of lesser players. In effect, they then made the only strength of the unit a weakness too. 41 points allowed. L. We're now on to 2018.

 

[Observer]

Bill Belichick was not prepared to play the Super Bowl without Malcolm Butler.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Andy it does indeed look like I derailed my own thread.

Last ditch effort at saving it. I thought this was interesting:

I don’t think Woody would have been in my room. Now, if we get to the owners from when I started coaching, [Patriots owner Robert] Kraft would have been in my room, simply because of our relationship. But the whole reason I’m telling you this story is because Woody, my whole two years there, didn’t know my name. He did not know my name. When he shook my hand, he said, ‘Hey.’ One time, we were on the field, and he said, ‘Hey, coach.’ I’m quite sure he didn’t know me from one of the players.

Whereas Kraft knows everyone’s name?

Yeah. Kraft would know everyone.

I know people on here have mixed feelings about Kraft after DeflateGate but I think this is a good perspective. Personally I'd rather have an owner who knows everyone and is more invested in the success of the team rather than someone who uses it as a status symbol. Seems like the players would all rather have that too. When players want to do well for the owner then that helps everyone.

 

[zoostation]

Game 1 2007 Mangini saw TB12 and Randy Moss destroy his NYJ defense ripping them to shreds. He knew (like the entire league knew after that game) that his team could not possibly beat the Patriots with that dynamic duo. So he saw the camera guy for the Pats filming the signals to analyze for a later date (note: some teams were filming from the field, other teams were filming from the stands or press box ...this is still legal, less sophisticated teams were writing the signals down). Anyway, upon seeing the camera on the field and knowing the D he had worked on all winter to build could NOT possibly stop the Patriots. So what does he do?.... he runs to the league like a scared beady eyed rat. It's almost like a playground bully getting beat up by another kid and then running home to his mommy. Camera gate is a joke. As BB said. there were 80,000 people in the stands who could see the same signals. Filming them as opposed to writing them down does not = espionage. Its a phucking joke. Almost as bad a a few air tics missing from a ball. Child please! Anyway, I digress. Go Pats

 

[BTTA]

This is an excellent read. Love this kind of thing. "He would toast, but he wouldn't take a shot" is a perfect analogy for Belichick's relationship with players.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

This thread:

 

[RobertWeathers]

I rather see butler at 60 percent than all these guys that where playing in his spot. I don’t care if he gets burned. For every bad play he can make a big play at any moment. Again if you wanna go by that then knock yourself out. I am just glad it’s over and a new season has begun but it still doesn’t take away the bad memory of seeing this defense get shredded.

Your points are a different discussion.

If we assume Malcolm did everything he could to play and BB held him out, then the BB bashing is warranted.

If Malcolm lolly-gagged all week he should be shot

 

[Adam Seward]

Andy it does indeed look like I derailed my own thread.

Last ditch effort at saving it. I thought this was interesting:



I know people on here have mixed feelings about Kraft after DeflateGate but I think this is a good perspective. Personally I'd rather have an owner who knows everyone and is more invested in the success of the team rather than someone who uses it as a status symbol. Seems like the players would all rather have that too. When players want to do well for the owner then that helps everyone.

Robert Kraft is a genuinely good dude.
I had been invited to have cigars with him and a very close acquaintance on Nantucket. And not because of I am of money or an Ivy League nepotism thing, I was an uneducated city kid from Springfield working valet on the island. But I had become friends with his acquaintance and told him I was a big fan of Kraft and the organization. He told me you know Krafts ”just a regular guy”. It was really eye opening to see how genuine he is as a person.
When he is in the locker room talking to the players and asking them how they are, that’s not a facade. He is proud of the organization. Goodell really took advantage during deflate gate saying one thing and doing another. To see Tom hung out to dry like that really hurt him. It’s a tough game, being top of the 32, and I don’t think we will ever understand the full dynamics of what goes on.

 

[The Brandon Five]

The absurdity of the "cost us a super bowl" argument is that it is based on the idea that Butler's presence would have resulted in better pass D

Perhaps (probably?) an accurate statement. But what that statement ignores is that the ENTIRE game plays out differently if he's in there from the opening kick off. There's absolutely no way you can say with certainty how the game plays out if he's in there from the beginning so immediately that argument is a waste of time

So then you're left with "well they should have put him in on this play or that drive etc". Again, no way to know how those plays and drives go with him in there and Belichick loses all integrity with his players by allowing an "important" guy to break the rules while a lesser important guy (say, Jordan Richards) would have not have been put in if he broke the same rule

Finally, it's positively laughable that anyone, after nearly 2 decades, would suggest that Belichick would intentionally sabotage the team or bench a player for no reason. He's the most competitive, dedicated to winning at all costs coach of this generation. (Maybe of all time). Sane fans, long time fans, should understand that he always makes decisions based on long term success of the franchise. And looking weak of allowing "key" players to get away with stuff that other guys don't, undercuts his entire teaching - next man up, always be prepared, make the best of it, do your job, etc. All those cliches and mantras don't mean squat if you pick and choose when to use them

So if you believe that his rigid philosophy of always following certain rules (you don't play if you do XYZ) "cost" them a Super Bowl. You should also believe that the same rigid style has given them 8 super bowl appearances and 5 wins. He gets his players and coaches to buy in 100%, that's why this had been the most successful run of all time when considering the salary cap environment. It's literally the best ever stretch all things considered and it all goes back to the ridigity of Bekichicks style. So when you crap on his decision to bench Butler, you're crapping on the primary foundation of what has made this 19 year stretch so amazing. Of course those same crap on Belichick "fans" are apparently psychic and all-knowing since they "know" Butler was the difference (and totally ignore the butterfly effect) between winning and losing. So they should "know" all of this anyway and still choose to spew it across the internet despite how silly it sounds

The real absurdity is that the pass D was about as bad I as we have seen in a SB, so most of us have a hard time imagining how Butler could have made it worse.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Love Pepper
2 Giants rings and 3 as a Pats coach.
He has a wealth of knowledge

Makes no sense why he isn’t employed helping a NFL team

 

[supafly]

The real absurdity is that the pass D was about as bad I as we have seen in a SB, so most of us have a hard time imagining how Butler could have made it worse.

I believe that the point is that Belichick stuck to his guns and treated him like any other player, meaning that no one player is above the team.

I’m sure it sucked for Belichick knowing that Butler was a better play, but he attempted to come up with a game plan using the guys that were available. As we know, that plan failed. It sounds like the whole thing was just a miserable situation for all involved.

 

[supafly]

Makes no sense why he isn’t employed helping a NFL team

It must sting a bit for Pepper, watching Patricia parlay his DC opportunity here into a HC gig at Detroit. IIRC, some believed that Pepper was the heir apparent choice for the DC position and then Belichick decided to go with Patricia. It could have been a whole different story for Johnson’s coaching career. Instead, he’s currently unemployed. I wonder if Belichick ever considered coming up with a position for him here?

 

[holyredeemer]

Love Pepper
2 Giants rings and 3 as a Pats coach.
He has a wealth of knowledge

Makes no sense why he isn’t employed helping a NFL team

Agreed. Peppers seems like a really great guy. A fiery competitor. He also came across as someone who lacks emotional intelligence. Don’t care how good you are at your job. If that gets around, opportunities get harder to find.

 

[DarrylS]

Malcolm admitted he wasn't ready to play in the Super Bowl.

That supersedes the couldas, wouldas and shouldas

The Hardest to learn is the least complicated... except when the media driven version drives the conversation.

OTOH it was a good insightful piece, that once again tells us what a good guy Kraft is and that BB is not a tyrannical egomaniac... always liked Pepper.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Hardest to learn is the least complicated... except when the media driven version drives the conversation.

OTOH it was a good insightful piece, that once again tells us what a good guy Kraft is and that BB is not a tyrannical egomaniac... always liked Pepper.

It was a great piece. Kinda feel bad for Pep.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Right and that was after he went into damage control. He still has something to gain from taking the high road even after signing the deal. Nobody knows what the future holds. However, basic human psychology will tell you that people will often lose any inhibition that they otherwise might have had when they're angry/in the heat of the moment. Ever bury an opinion about someone or something they did and then proceeded to get into a heated argument with them and it came out? Perhaps your wife? Maybe another loved one? Same concept. The guy crying during the national anthem and said he could have helped and that the team gave up on him doesn't really believe that he wasn't ready to play.



This would be more plausible if there wasn't a history of guys that missed practice time during the week, either due to injury or illness, and then still went on to play that Sunday. For Christ's sake, the team has traded for or brought in veterans from outside the team mid-week and played them on Sunday. So you'll forgive me if I'm still not quick to buy that excuse. It is what it is - a mistake by BB.

Everyone is different, Kontra. For me, depending on the event I'll either clam up and withdraw with the intention of organizing my thoughts so I can have a mature discussion or I'll go ape **** and go off. As I get older I'm doing more of the former.

In February, Malcolm got emotional which is understandable. Then he recalibrated his account. Was he being more honest in Feb than July? Who knows.

Bottom line is Bill didn't think Malcolm was ready. Malcolm later admitted he wasn't. I don't think he had anything to gain from elaborating on the why but he did .

 

[PP2]

Game 1 2007 Mangini saw TB12 and Randy Moss destroy his NYJ defense ripping them to shreds. He knew (like the entire league knew after that game) that his team could not possibly beat the Patriots with that dynamic duo. So he saw the camera guy for the Pats filming the signals to analyze for a later date (note: some teams were filming from the field, other teams were filming from the stands or press box ...this is still legal, less sophisticated teams were writing the signals down). Anyway, upon seeing the camera on the field and knowing the D he had worked on all winter to build could NOT possibly stop the Patriots. So what does he do?.... he runs to the league like a scared beady eyed rat. It's almost like a playground bully getting beat up by another kid and then running home to his mommy. Camera gate is a joke. As BB said. there were 80,000 people in the stands who could see the same signals. Filming them as opposed to writing them down does not = espionage. Its a phucking joke. Almost as bad a a few air tics missing from a ball. Child please! Anyway, I digress. Go Pats

He likely was "complicit" in this when he was with the Patriots, and took advantage of it. But when he was with the Jets, he cried foul.

 

[scout]

Great article! I read the article after the posts and amazed their is so much talk about Butler. Capers, what a ****. Pepper should coach college ball because he will not get back into the NFL. Why wouldn't a coach want to listen to what an assistant has to say. Maybe that's the Patriots way, but it is also the successful way.

 

[zoostation]

He likely was "complicit" in this when he was with the Patriots, and took advantage of it. But when he was with the Jets, he cried foul.

Not only was he complicit when he was here, there were leaks at the time that the Patriots kicked a Jets camera man off the bridge at Gillette in 2006 under Mangini. The difference is BB probably chuckled, said nice try to himself (good angle of the Pats sideline and all) and then had someone tell him to leave. Mangini went to the NFL who had executives on the sidelines that afternoon in the Meadowlands. He broke the code and you will likely never see him on the sideline of an NFL game with a clipboard again.