Instant Reaction: Your Patriots 2023 Draft Grade

[Pape]

All that's matter is I agree... lol

lol... thanks... the whole point is to generate conversation...

I would say that to @Gumby as well... you dislike my post... Okay... tell me why...

 

[Grogan14]

This happens every year after BB's drafts. It's like the "Stockholm syndrome"...shock and disappointment turn into grudging acceptance and then unfounded optimism. The local mediates spin the picks that are highly questionable because they need to maintain strong fan interest. It is in the mediates interest to get fans believing once again that BB is a genius and these highly questionable picks in round 3, 4 and 5 are actually brilliant moves by BB (the puppet master) and his lap dog puppet (Groh).

The Mapu pick could turn out to be the worst. They could have picked Tucker Kraft, Josh Downs, Devon Achand, Darnell Washington, Jordan Battle or even Jake Moody.

This kid was playing for Sacramento state AND is injured. The other picks I mentioned played much tougher competition in major college conferences and did not carry the injury risk and were also at positions of need. I would have been even happier if they had taken Moody as their kicker because he is one of the best kickers to come out of college in the past 10 years. He would be a sure thing to make a big difference next year. This Mapu kid is a huge gamble and it was not necessary.

I also think the Mafi pick was crazy ridiculous. Not necessary to pick another guard when they could have picked Sirvocen Dennis or Will Mallory.

I notice as each and every day passes, the view of BB's draft becomes more and more positive as the Patriots brass and the media brainwash the fans into believing this draft was pure genius.

The first 2 picks were very good and make sense and rounds 6 and 7 were fine as rolls of the dice. But rounds 3-5 seem like acts of shoot from the hip desperation.

Not saying that its a bad raft class, but with the selections from rounds 3-5 I do not see how anyone can grade this higher based on what we know now than a B-.

No need for anyone to say that no one will know whether the draft is god or bad until at least 2-3 years from now...that is obvious. We are all just speculating here on limited information available to us.

 

[yukon cornelius]

C+ almost solely based off the Gonzalez pick. Going all defense for our first several picks doesn’t make sense given that our defense was already our strength, offense is the weakness.

The trade for the kicker is also a knock on their draft grade.

They needed a kicker

They got the best one in the draft

They went and got what they wanted, that's not a knock

This isn't fantasy football where kickers all go last round

 

[yukon cornelius]

They needed a kicker

They got the best one in the draft

They went and got what they wanted, that's not a knock

This isn't fantasy football where kickers all go last round

At some point you're building a football team, and you get the guys you want

That point came early in this draft.....the talent wasn't deep, and not a lot of willing trade partners

 

[Grogan14]

They needed a kicker

They got the best one in the draft

They went and got what they wanted, that's not a knock

This isn't fantasy football where kickers all go last round

Rhyland was not the best one. Moody is. I bet they wanted Moody and panicked when Moody went early and reacted by trading up for 2nd best kicker

 

[duc359]

???
So, a 4th rounder and 6th rounder who showed almost nothing are somehow ENTITLED to a roster spot? Why? They had a RB coach. They were evaluated.

I'm NOT saying that neither will make the roster. However, I don't see why we need both on the 53. And, if they didn't show anything in 2022 and don't in 2023 Training camp and the preseason, I am not all worried about someone else taking them for their Practice Squad.

I have no reason to believe that they both will beat out a healthy Montgomery, who is an emergency RB. kick returner, emergency WR and a STer.
He was an almost exact replacement for Bolden in those roles.

But he has to play to be effective. He's been IR'd 4 times in his career. He's 30 1/4. BB tends not to favor players that do not play. His dead cap is $150k, cap hit $1.58M. Any sign of health issues or age - pack your bags.

 

[Gumby]

so, i thought I'd do a draft write up, ...
...
Outside of Gonzales I didn't know one person we selected in the draft.……

...

Quite frankly I thought we were going in a different direction in the draft... I thought it was going to be offense heavy in the early rounds... I thought 1 overall was going to be a tackle... Nah, we didn't even bother with one, lol... Thought there was an outside shot at an early WR... lol, didn't bother until the, what, 5th round? So thats basically a F...

Then I looked at what they did do... A couple defensive edge / lb type guys... White & Mapu ... now these picks surprised me... I didn't think we'd be going after guys like these... I had said prior to the draft I wanted to trade down and grab a guy to pair with Judon and Barmore... ...

Then we get to the mid rounds... Center, 2 Guards and a Kicker... Okay, right away, using a 4th on a kicker is an automatic F from me... what it would normally say to me was that the guy they wanted was taken... but they traded up... ugh... F from me...

The ass end of the draft... ... Overall, a C+ for the tail end of the draft, just based on potential...

that averages out to a C+

What really hurt us this year (in my opinion, ymmv) was not getting an offensive lineman or a weapon, to help Mac Jones... among other guys, Notre Dames TE Mayer was there for the taking... Josh jumped up and grabbed him... we jumped up for a kicker :/

It was a good draft that could have been slightly better...
...
.

You want a response; ok I’m normally more the lurker and please understand I’m not looking for an Andy-NEM type fight, but as requested …..

you clown yourself with these comments In bold and then contradict yourself at the end w the part underlined.

repeatedly you say how little you researched or saw film. But then all your grades are about how the guys who DID WATCH FILM and HAVE A PLAN; got it all wrong because they didn’t match YOUR EXPECTATIONS. the number of times you use 1st person as the justification for what they SHOULD HAVE DONE.

then at the end you say was a good draft; that could be SLIGHTLY BETTER. So a small change makes those F grades into As??

Also, for me a good draft is a B; but you call it a C. So we’re on different planets there just from general grading perspective.

i just saw your post as all over the place and all about how the team didn’t meet your own misplaced expectations.

And your’s was not a judgement about how well it filled team needs. … I think it hit team needs at almost every single pick. Unfortunately they have more needs than picks; even if they had 12. And the ones left off the table were the sexy positions; but not ones w VALUE.

 

[mgteich]

But he has to play to be effective. He's been IR'd 4 times in his career. He's 30 1/4. BB tends not to favor players that do not play. His dead cap is $150k, cap hit $1.58M. Any sign of health issues or age - pack your bags.

Let's try again.
1) We have Rham.
2) Belichick looked at the backups, and signed Robinson.
3) We have Strong under contract. He showed little in 2022.
4) Harris showed much less in 2022, as expected by most of us.
5) There will be many running backs available during camp and after.

MY CONCLUSIONS
A) Strong or Harris will be competing, with Strong as the favorite.
B) Montgomery is a utility player and special teamer who is much more favored than a #3 thumper. If healthy, he will make the 53.
C) If Montgomery can't play, I see us looking to the waiver wire for someone to compete with Strong and Harris, and at very worst end up on the Practice Squad. Montgomery is NOT part of the future. He is older, veteran special teamer, a type of player favored by Belichick.

BOTTOM LINE
I STRONGLY prefer Montogmery on the 53, and Harris on the Practice Squad.

 

[rochrist]

@rochrist
you don't agree ... Okay ... Why don't you agree?

Specifically, the kicker is an automatic F. There were only 2 good kickers in the draft, and the other one went in the third to SF. People like to pretend that the kicker isn't an important position. Until it loses the team 2 or 3 games.

 

[Pape]

You want a response; ok I’m normally more the lurker and please understand I’m not looking for an Andy-NEM type fight, but as requested …..

you clown yourself with these comments In bold and then contradict yourself at the end w the part underlined.

repeatedly you say how little you researched or saw film. But then all your grades are about how the guys who DID WATCH FILM and HAVE A PLAN; got it all wrong because they didn’t match YOUR EXPECTATIONS. the number of times you use 1st person as the justification for what they SHOULD HAVE DONE.

then at the end you say was a good draft; that could be SLIGHTLY BETTER. So a small change makes those F grades into As??

Also, for me a good draft is a B; but you call it a C. So we’re on different planets there just from general grading perspective.

i just saw your post as all over the place and all about how the team didn’t meet your own misplaced expectations.

And your’s was not a judgement about how well it filled team needs. … I think it hit team needs at almost every single pick. Unfortunately they have more needs than picks; even if they had 12. And the ones left off the table were the sexy positions; but not ones w VALUE.

thanks for the reply... I saw the team needs as OT, WR, TE. DB, LB/E, DT, K/P

don't want a nem like exchange either... just wanted to know why...

i didn't do a ton of research, not like i used to... but then, hardly anyone does... Was I "clowning myself"? nah... that was me just being honest about it, unlike most who will try to pass themselves off as experts... bcg most here are not, so why pretend to be?

I did watch some of the guys after they were selected, but honestly, is ten minutes of watching youtube and twitter highlights really a good look at a player? No, its not, and thats what a lot of people use in their grading assessments... I tried to do something a bit different... guess it didnt work as well as i thought...

the break down was a generalized assessment of the overall draft versus what I thought our needs were and are... doesn't make me right, or wrong... I thought we needed an OT, we didn't get one... not one... That's a failure on our part... But I also thought we needed an edge, and/or a linebacker - Good picks imo, even without me knowing a ton (or anything) about each player... why would I know anything about Keion White? I've never watched a GT game in my life... and be honest how many times did you hear the name Keion White on the boards prior to the draft? Maybe once i'd be willing to wager... But I liked the addition of the positional player... Thats not a contradiction... and I thought we gave up way too much to move up and draft a kicker and that's a fail imo... chances are we could have gotten a kicker after the draft...

The post was a bit sloppyily written, i agree... really wasnt trying to do a this guy gets A that guy gets a B analysis... more of a general sense of how the draft went, and whether or not it met our needs as I saw them...

and for what a good draft is... it varies person to person... for me : D is jete level... C-, C is average... a C+ is a good draft... B- & B is good to very good, B+ is very good to excellent draft... A knocks it out of the park

 

[Pape]

Specifically, the kicker is an automatic F. There were only 2 good kickers in the draft, and the other one went in the third to SF. People like to pretend that the kicker isn't an important position. Until it loses the team 2 or 3 games.

trading multiple picks to move up int he 4th? that move is an auto F for me... we gave up way too much for him... As for only two good ones being available, thats a matter of opinion... half the websites i read, dont have him in the top 4 or 5... one didnt even have him listed...

 

[Kasmir]

I've listened to a bunch of post draft coverage and I think this guy is the most cogent (and gives a B grade which appears to be the consensus):

 

[Real fan 02]

lol... thanks... the whole point is to generate conversation...

I would say that to @Gumby as well... you dislike my post... Okay... tell me why...

Yes... of course.. your welcome. Some tend to forget that.

 

[Real fan 02]

At some point you're building a football team, and you get the guys you want

That point came early in this draft.....the talent wasn't deep, and not a lot of willing trade partners

The team in my opinion identified areas of need. Got the best CB prospect in the draft.. as it was mentioned the best Kicker as well.. and one of the best Defensesive players.. everything thing else on offense was identified in the later rounds. So I'd agree with that!

 

[Family]

trading multiple picks to move up int he 4th? that mose is an auto F for me... we gave up way too much for him... As for only two good ones being available, thats a matter of opinion... half the websites i read, dont have him in the top 4 or 5... one didnt even have him listed...

We gave up one additional one pick; a sixth rounder, to move up, and we already had three.

If the pick works, the kicker is contributing for 10+ years.

 

[50-yard-line]

This happens every year after BB's drafts. It's like the "Stockholm syndrome"...shock and disappointment turn into grudging acceptance and then unfounded optimism. The local mediates spin the picks that are highly questionable because they need to maintain strong fan interest. It is in the mediates interest to get fans believing once again that BB is a genius and these highly questionable picks in round 3, 4 and 5 are actually brilliant moves by BB (the puppet master) and his lap dog puppet (Groh).

If you root for a sports team and don't have unfounded optimism, then you're doing it wrong. It's entertainment.
As for the rest above, when's the last time the Patriots drafted a player who seems as sure-fire (of course, there's always doubt) as Christian Gonzales? Wilfork?

I'll wait.

The Mapu pick could turn out to be the worst. They could have picked Tucker Kraft, Josh Downs, Devon Achand, Darnell Washington, Jordan Battle or even Jake Moody.

This kid was playing for Sacramento state AND is injured. The other picks I mentioned played much tougher competition in major college conferences and did not carry the injury risk and were also at positions of need. I would have been even happier if they had taken Moody as their kicker because he is one of the best kickers to come out of college in the past 10 years. He would be a sure thing to make a big difference next year. This Mapu kid is a huge gamble and it was not necessary.

I also think the Mafi pick was crazy ridiculous. Not necessary to pick another guard when they could have picked Sirvocen Dennis or Will Mallory.

You could be right. I don't know what happened with Washington and Kraft, but the Pats were hardly the only ones to let them free-fall. The others? Meh.

I'm not sold on Mapu, but whatever.

I notice as each and every day passes, the view of BB's draft becomes more and more positive as the Patriots brass and the media brainwash the fans into believing this draft was pure genius.

It's the JOB of the Patriots marketing team to pump the team. Like, it's WHY they get paid.


As for the media, the network guys aren't paid to get clicks, but to talk to everyone. If you want misery, sports radio is right there waiting - the job of those guys is to be outrageous and angry, contrarian, and generally a-holes. The network media is for people who haven't fallen into misery.

The first 2 picks were very good and make sense and rounds 6 and 7 were fine as rolls of the dice. But rounds 3-5 seem like acts of shoot from the hip desperation.

Round 3 was a gamble.
Round 4/5 filled two huge needs - OL and K. I'm optimistic about Sidy Sow, and now I"m hearing many people saying that Mafi is even better, No idea on Andrews, but I'll trust Popovich here. And again, the idea that anyone picked after 3 will be truly meaningful on a team is a massive crapshoot - particularly in a draft that, yes, seemed really weak. My thoughts after reading everything here and elsewhere ar ethat the Pats got at least two guys with the physical attributes to be powerful OL maulers, and that at least one of these three is going to be a valuable contributor.

Not saying that its a bad raft class, but with the selections from rounds 3-5 I do not see how anyone can grade this higher based on what we know now than a B-.

No need for anyone to say that no one will know whether the draft is god or bad until at least 2-3 years from now...that is obvious. We are all just speculating here on limited information available to us.

Draft grades are based on individual opinions - there's no magical metric, Heck, look at the mock simulators - Fanspeak has like 10 boards to choose from and your entire draft will be cornered by the board you choose.

Pats, with mediocre position, got their most promising pick since Wilfork at least, and didn't spend a ton of capital to move up - and STILL got another guy they were thinking about at 17. What the heck is wrong with that? And almost all draft outcomes (unless you've traded away players/picks to have lots of high picks) hinge on the first couple of picks.

The places where the Pats are rated C, or whatever, almost all hinge on the kicker (with never a mention that they used pick 117 (and a sixth), while having the pick 120 from trading down (before taking the best prospect they've had in more than a decade) right behind. Combine those two transactions and they got Ryland with a 6th and 3 slots in the fourth.


And I can't even believe some of the stupidity I'm reading about drafting kickers - one site tweaked the Pats and asked why anyone would draft a kicker, since it never works out - you'd think a site posing as football analysts might have heard of Stephen Gostowski. Kicking and punting cost the Pats at least two games last year. It matters now. A lot.

 

[Pape]

We gave up one additional one pick; a sixth rounder, to move up, and we already had three.

If the pick works, the kicker is contributing for 10+ years.

If

that is the issue for me... lately our choice of kickers has been less than stellar

and that's a high cost for a kicker imo

 

[PowerRunRevival]

My delayed reaction to the draft:
After watching so many Patriots drafts, I have tried to learn to not get upset when Bill strays from consensus. My immediate reaction is always to be annoyed, but over time Bill's drafting record stands up pretty well against consensus. It doesn't really seem like that because when the team misses by going away from consensus it really stands out.

The Pats got a bunch of players they had first hand experience coaching at the post season bowl games, 2 from the shrine (Douglas, Mafi) and from 5 the senior bowl (White, Mapu, Jake Andrews, Baringer, Ryland). I feel like the Pats do a good job drafting players they got first hand experience coaching.

I like that the targeted the offensive line (especially if Mafi or Sow can play tackle). I think all 3 of their first picks will be near and long term contributors to the defense. I liked that they invested in receiver with a double dip, even if they waited until the 6th. I'm a firm believer that they need to invest in the WR position every single year until they get it right. I liked that they got a new kicker and a punter, in the past when Bill has drafted specialists they have been the answer at the position for a long time. I love that the Pats made 12 picks, I am here for taking as many swings of the bat as possible.

I do not like that the Pats went into the draft with long term needs at WR, TE and OT. These 3 positions will continue to be needs in the next draft. All the interior lineman drafted makes me nervous that Onwenu won't be retained, I hope they are just covering themselves because it would be a bad idea to let him walk. If Mafi or Sow make it more likely that Onwenu isn't retained then that's a big reason to dislike the draft.

 

[Steve102]

If

that is the issue for me... lately our choice of kickers has been less than stellar

and that's a high cost for a kicker imo

Specifically, the kicker is an automatic F. There were only 2 good kickers in the draft, and the other one went in the third to SF. People like to pretend that the kicker isn't an important position. Until it loses the team 2 or 3 games.

I am confused, not trying to be a ****. They went out and got a good kicker, depending on who is ranking them, that was ranked 1-4th. Like you guys, I don't like the slot, but they liked him, a position of need, and had no dance partners to trade back (so the reports go), so they took him. The whole middle of the draft is low risk interior linemen. Tells me they hated this draft class in the middle rounds. Anyway.. I am off on a tangent. You guys both admit kicking is important, yet you give them an F here? Just because of the slot?

The Pats got a bunch of players they had first hand experience coaching at the post season bowl games, 2 from the shrine (Douglas, Mafi) and from 5 the senior bowl (White, Mapu, Jake Andrews, Baringer, Ryland). I feel like the Pats do a good job drafting players they got first hand experience coaching.

I think I am in the minority, but I think there's maybe too much emphasis on that first hand coaching. 7 guys were good enough out of those two games ? Even if I give them a pass on White, who warranted an invite to the draft, and Baringer, who was the top rated punter, that's still 5 guys. That just feels like too much weight is placed on that. I can see if there's a guy or two they are on the fence about, and then the first hand experience pushes them over the edge to draft a him, fine, that makes sense. Five guys? The feels like all their eggs are in one basket. Or two baskets, anyway. I don't know, I am no expert. I guess I would like to know if this is normal when coaching staffs get access to these bowl games.

 

[PatsFan2]

My delayed reaction to the draft:
After watching so many Patriots drafts, I have tried to learn to not get upset when Bill strays from consensus. My immediate reaction is always to be annoyed, but over time Bill's drafting record stands up pretty well against consensus. It doesn't really seem like that because when the team misses by going away from consensus it really stands out.

The Pats got a bunch of players they had first hand experience coaching at the post season bowl games, 2 from the shrine (Douglas, Mafi) and from 5 the senior bowl (White, Mapu, Jake Andrews, Baringer, Ryland). I feel like the Pats do a good job drafting players they got first hand experience coaching.

I like that the targeted the offensive line (especially if Mafi or Sow can play tackle). I think all 3 of their first picks will be near and long term contributors to the defense. I liked that they invested in receiver with a double dip, even if they waited until the 6th. I'm a firm believer that they need to invest in the WR position every single year until they get it right. I liked that they got a new kicker and a punter, in the past when Bill has drafted specialists they have been the answer at the position for a long time. I love that the Pats made 12 picks, I am here for taking as many swings of the bat as possible.

I do not like that the Pats went into the draft with long term needs at WR, TE and OT. These 3 positions will continue to be needs in the next draft. All the interior lineman drafted makes me nervous that Onwenu won't be retained, I hope they are just covering themselves because it would be a bad idea to let him walk. If Mafi or Sow make it more likely that Onwenu isn't retained then that's a big reason to dislike the draft.

I think it's every Drafted player hope is to make a squad play well and get a very good second contract. I like how the Pats covered themselves here more power to Michael Onwenu.