Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[cmasspatsfan]

I remember the Trade TB and have Cassell as the starting QB because the team started looking great the second half of the year. We could get a boat load for Brady and shore up the weak spots. I don't remember who was on what side but it went on for a while.

 

[Lavictoire]

I just worry now that Bill Obrien will be hailed by the media as the "savior" of the Patriots and defacto head coach. I wonder how BB will handle this.

 

[Steve102]

I just worry now that Bill Obrien will be hailed by the media as the "savior" of the Patriots and defacto head coach. I wonder how BB will handle this.

I could care less what the media fabricates as their story lines for ****-ass sports radio. Just win, baby.

 

[Lavictoire]

I could care less what the media fabricates as their story lines for ****-ass sports radio. Just win, baby.

I agree about the media, my point was I hope it doesnt create ego/resentment problems with Bill if we start winning again and Obrien gets the credit..

 

[Steve102]

I agree about the media, my point was I hope it doesnt create ego/resentment problems with Bill if we start winning again and Obrien gets the credit..

Oh it will here, for certain. Guys love to be keyboard cowboys. Meh. They win on Sunday's and most true fans won't care, it'll just be about the W's.

 

[Kasmir]

Tells me the guy is not a Pats fans at all, otherwise it'd be "us". It's always him, talking down to us because he thinks he is the smartest one on the forum.

Trolls vs Fans.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I remember the Trade TB and have Cassell as the starting QB because the team started looking great the second half of the year. We could get a boat load for Brady and shore up the weak spots. I don't remember who was on what side but it went on for a while.

In fairness though, Brady’s knee was destroyed and you had Carson Palmer screaming that Brady would never be the same again. He had to deal with an infection too.

 

[crawhammer]

A) It shouldn't be "you guys", although I guess "you guys" refers to those of us who had a rooting interest in the team and still actively followed that season like every other year, albeit Brady's injury forced us to lower our expectations.

I only said "you guys" because you coined it first in our interaction... I guess it's only ok for you when you can't fathom why anyone would look back on 2008 with disappointment.

I don't get how you guys dismiss an 11-5 season and not look back on that year - maybe you weren't following the team as closely - and end up impressed with what he managed to do with that team

I followed the team closely. For the entirety of the 2008 season. At no point did I think that team with Cassel at quarterback had any chance whatsoever of doing anything in the postseason. So my expectations were lowered. It went mostly as I expected, with a solid overall roster, a good coaching staff, and a softer schedule. They were competitive against equal or lesser opponents and lost to teams that were better. The season would have gone a lot differently with Brady. I guess in some forum circles that makes me a troll for holding that opinion.

B) And obviously, when Brady went down, that changed everything. But instead of a potential 6-11 season and everything unraveling, they went 11-5, which is pretty amazing considering it was Cassel that got them there. Bill deserves most of the credit for that.

They had a Super Bowl roster with Brady, correct? We can cry about tiebreakers and what not but they missed the playoffs. Good on Bill because he won 11 games with Cassel (-5 wins from a season prior). This further proves my point about the value of quarterbacks. Had they gone 11-5 with Brady, and missed the postseason, then everyone would have been greatly disappointed. And no one would be putting 2008 at the top of Bill's greatest hits. Right up there with Cam's 7 wins in 2020.

Again, you want to crap on that season because you hate Bill, I get it. But it doesn't change the fact that the season played out the way it did, and most of us ended up enjoying watching Cassel evolve and turn into - at the time - a decent player. As I said, I would have liked to have seen what he did in the playoffs, but alas, it is what it is.

Honestly I care about Bill the person about as much as I care about Tom the person. I have an opinion of each personally but it doesn't effect my commentary on their NFL careers. I don't "hate" Belichick the head coach. He's one of the greatest head coaches in the history of the NFL. But I wouldn't feature the 2008 season prominently in his bio, in fact it may only be worthy of a footnote. There are 6 championship seasons to talk about first as well as several other deep playoff runs. Ultimately Cassel will be a completely forgotten figure in Patriots history.

And I don't "want to crap" on a season just for the sake of hammering Belichick. At least I hope I'm coming across more thoughtful than that. Belichick is the HC/GM who says he's "ultimately responsible for everything" which he intends to include all of the historical winning so I think it's ok to throw a little shade at him when things go south (like in 2006, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2020 & 2022 without reiterating specifics). As long as I effort an explanation for my opinion, then I don't see why there should be a problem. Obviously not everyone shares the same opinion on most topics. Which is an essential reality for a forum like this.

 

[crawhammer]

I'm done with it. Any dope can scour Pro Football Stats, History, Scores, Standings, Playoffs, Schedule & Records | Pro-Football-Reference.com, come up with fantasy stats and do a cheap ass Felger impression just to troll ****. I'll talk to real fans all day, not this spreadsheet analyzing buffoon that knows nothing about football.

I know that's pretty harsh for me, that I usually go along to get along, but the dude just spouts **** to argue about. I'm done with his act.

No, that's harsh for anyone. Not to be a whiny baby but I don't trash talk about you. You want to be done with me (again) then fine but the rest of it is unnecessary.

1. Any Dope Can Use Stats.

Right, you should try it more often, it'll probably help your arguments. I never understand this aversion to stats. Generally you can't make them up because they're easily fact checked. And what do you think every ounce of what everyone puts into the sport amounts to? Yes, stats. Wins, losses, points, yards, turnovers, penalties, etc. In the end the only thing that matters is the box score.

2. Spreadsheet Analyzing Buffoon.

See above. And add to that, comparison, correlation, and percentages of all those stats (on charts and graphs and tables and spreadsheets) tells us how effective or not a player, or a coach, or a GM, or a team are. List for me the greatest franchises in the history of the league and then show me a list of franchises with the most championships. List for me the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league and then show me a list of quarterbacks with the most Super Bowl rings.

3. Cheap Ass Felger Impression.

Can't do one and he's not someone I hold in high enough esteem to try.

4. Trolling Just for the Sake of Arguing.

Firstly, I'd have to be making insincere arguments to be trolling. Which I'm not.
Secondly, arguing - citing reasons or evidence (stats for example) in support of an idea or theory - is sort of a major pillar of the forum.

 

[Ian]

No, that's harsh for anyone. Not to be a whiny baby but I don't trash talk about you. You want to be done with me (again) then fine but the rest of it is unnecessary.

1. Any Dope Can Use Stats.

Right, you should try it more often, it'll probably help your arguments. I never understand this aversion to stats. Generally you can't make them up because they're easily fact checked. And what do you think every ounce of what everyone puts into the sport amounts to? Yes, stats. Wins, losses, points, yards, turnovers, penalties, etc. In the end the only thing that matters is the box score.

2. Spreadsheet Analyzing Buffoon.

See above. And add to that, comparison, correlation, and percentages of all those stats (on charts and graphs and tables and spreadsheets) tells us how effective or not a player, or a coach, or a GM, or a team are. List for me the greatest franchises in the history of the league and then show me a list of franchises with the most championships. List for me the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league and then show me a list of quarterbacks with the most Super Bowl rings.

3. Cheap Ass Felger Impression.

Can't do one and he's not someone I hold in high enough esteem to try.

4. Trolling Just for the Sake of Arguing.

Firstly, I'd have to be making insincere arguments to be trolling. Which I'm not.
Secondly, arguing - citing reasons or evidence (stats for example) in support of an idea or theory - is sort of a major pillar of the forum.

His point is that it’s easy to read a stat sheet and crap on the numbers when you leave out the context. That’s like looking at the 43 touchdowns that Brady threw last season and saying that he sucked this season because despite more attempts, he only threw 25.

Context. It often means more than just the numbers.

 

[crawhammer]

His point is that it’s easy to read a stat sheet and crap on the numbers when you leave out the context.

No, his point was to take personal shots and then blame me for his unpleasantness.

That’s like looking at the 43 touchdowns that Brady threw last season and saying that he sucked this season because despite more attempts, he only threw 25.

There's at least some reasoning in that hypothetical opinion. Brady had the lowest TD% of his career. There aren't enough fingers to point for Brady to escape some blame for that. He performed below expectation. Brady was really good in two areas this season: no huddle and 4th quarter. They didn't do enough of the first thing and the second thing unfortunately is only one of four.

Brady's season wasn't a disaster, he had some vintage clutch moments, and he tacked on a few notable career records, but overall it wasn't at all what he wanted his last season to look like.

 

[Calhoun44]

Tells me the guy is not a Pats fans at all, otherwise it'd be "us". It's always him, talking down to us because he thinks he is the smartest one on the forum.

Wait a second...I thought I was the smartest guy on the forum.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I just worry now that Bill Obrien will be hailed by the media as the "savior" of the Patriots and defacto head coach. I wonder how BB will handle this.

I don't think he'll really care

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don't think he'll really care

Given this years team, BB should retire if he can't share success with his coaching staff. The team winning because they have a competent OC who gets too much credit has to be better than losing with a bad OC with all of the blame directed to him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Given the this years team, BB should retire if he can't share success with his coaching staff. The team winning because they have a competent OC who gets too much credit has to be better than losing with a bad OC with all of the blame directed to him.

I really don't think it'll be a problem.

 

[Steve102]

His point is that it’s easy to read a stat sheet and crap on the numbers when you leave out the context. That’s like looking at the 43 touchdowns that Brady threw last season and saying that he sucked this season because despite more attempts, he only threw 25.

Context. It often means more than just the numbers.

I defer my two minutes to the good senator from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts State of Confusion.

 

[Ian]

There's at least some reasoning in that hypothetical opinion. Brady had the lowest TD% of his career. There aren't enough fingers to point for Brady to escape some blame for that. He performed below expectation. Brady was really good in two areas this season: no huddle and 4th quarter. They didn't do enough of the first thing and the second thing unfortunately is only one of four.

Brady's season wasn't a disaster, he had some vintage clutch moments, and he tacked on a few notable career records, but overall it wasn't at all what he wanted his last season to look like.

Everything you just explained was the context behind looking at the stats vs watching it and really being invested, essentially making my point

 

[203Pat]

I agree about the media, my point was I hope it doesnt create ego/resentment problems with Bill if we start winning again and Obrien gets the credit..

Then adios old Bill and hello Billy O. If BB can't get his ego in check because of what talking heads are saying then he should be shown the door.

 

[sb1]

This was Malcolm Butler's reaction to Matt Patricia calling offense

Here’s how Malcolm Butler reacted when he learned Matt Patricia would be the Patriots’ offensive play-caller in 2022.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Like most, he was confused by New England’s decision to name Patricia as the team’s offensive play-caller for the 2022 season, as reported by NESN.com’s Zack Cox.

Most? More like everyone other than Bill and Patricia... wouldn't surprise me if even Patricia was confused by it.

 

[Steve102]

This was Malcolm Butler's reaction to Matt Patricia calling offense

Here’s how Malcolm Butler reacted when he learned Matt Patricia would be the Patriots’ offensive play-caller in 2022.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Most? More like everyone other than Bill and Patricia... wouldn't surprise me if even Patricia was confused by it.