Improving the left side of the line

[upstater1]

Yes, but they’ll need to upgrade at least one other position as well. LG is my guess. I think you’ll see two new starters on the line next season.

Who is doing the picking?

Here are the guards we recently drafted:

3rd Jared Wilson
3rd Caeden Wallace
4th Layden Robinson
4th Jake Andrews
4th Sidy Sow
5th Atonio Mafi
1st Cole Strange
6th Chasen Hines
6th Mike Onwenu
7th Dustin Woodward
4th Hjalte Froholdt

Some of these guys are doing really well for other teams (Andrews, Strange and Froholdt) but we've expended a whole boatload of resources to end up with only Onwenu and Wilson.

In retrospect, letting Strange go was a big mistake because he did pretty well for the Dolphins and even rose to becoming captain for them. They are going to keep him.

 

[upstater1]

Sure he's old, but he was still solid. That seems more like a position where you ideally look to draft someone who can step in for him in 2027 as opposed to a change you look to make in 2026. Unless that rookie is an immediate upgrade, but that's probably not happening where we're picking.

Not saying it isn't a position to address, but feels unlikely we have a new starter there for 2026.

You don't want to throw rookies into the mix. A lot of the top linemen in the league right now couldn't play as rookies. They need work. Strength, technique.

Now, some of them are ready from day 1, like Penei Sewell or Tristan Wirfs, but they go in the top 10.

Look at Jordan Malaita who is considered the best T in the NFL. He didn't start until his 3rd year.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Hard to judge because you still don't know how much the injury effected Campbell. But he looked like hot trash in the playoffs, a ****ing corner back beat him on one play.

@lancerman , I don't think that trash would be luke warm even....

 

[n1997y]

We went into the SB thinking we had the edge in coaching.

Looks like we didn’t, at least for that game.

Yes,
COTY HC and COTY OC were both outcoached.

 

[DaBruinz]

Who is doing the picking?

Here are the guards we recently drafted:

3rd Jared Wilson
3rd Caeden Wallace
4th Layden Robinson
4th Jake Andrews
4th Sidy Sow
5th Atonio Mafi
1st Cole Strange
6th Chasen Hines
6th Mike Onwenu
7th Dustin Woodward
4th Hjalte Froholdt

Some of these guys are doing really well for other teams (Andrews, Strange and Froholdt) but we've expended a whole boatload of resources to end up with only Onwenu and Wilson.

In retrospect, letting Strange go was a big mistake because he did pretty well for the Dolphins and even rose to becoming captain for them. They are going to keep him.

The problem I see with your analysis is that 4 of those players were drafted for other positions not for guard.

Jared Wilson was drafted as a Center. He was put at guard, in theory, because he was the best option.
Caeden Wallace was drafted as a RT.
Jake Andrews was drafted as a Center who showed enough under BB to get some snaps at guard.
Dustin Woodard was drafted as a Center. This was a miss, in general, since he retired before stepping on the field.

You're going back 7 drafts and ignoring the low success rate of players in the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds. Of the 11 you listed, only 7 were drafted to be guards. Of those 7, Mafi, Hines and Onwenu were drafted in the 5th round or later. 1 in 3 is actually far above the success rate for those 3 rounds.

Robinson, Sow, and Froholdt not working out are the bigger misses oustide of Woodard.. Froholdt took years to find success and a position move.

I think that Vrabel will ask himself what they missed in their evaluation of Jake Andrews that caused them to believe they needed to add a Center/Guard in the Draft. They'll probably self-evaluate on Strange as well since he only gave up 2 sacks, 3 hits and 16 hurries whereas Wilson gave up 8 sacks, 7 hits, and 26 hurries on the season.

Guard is one of the positions you need to be looking at yearly in the draft. Just like Corner. In my opinion, 1 OG each year for 7 years with 3 of those picks in the 5-6 rounds isn't bad. Even if you going with 1.5 picks by saying the Interior, I'm not sure that 11 picks over 7 years for 5 positions (3 starters/2 backups) is a lot..

 

[n1997y]

All good.

I was actually impressed by the OL this year and thought maybe I was misguided in my opinion, but after the playoffs made me feel validated in my initial opinion. After he was hired I went back and watched the OL groups from Bama, Saints and Boston College. I did not feel like he was able to adapt based on watching those units, but it could have also been a self serving prophecy because maybe I only saw what I wanted to support my theory.

Another point that I think is crucial is that the OL coach and the OC need to work very closely in order to match OL play to timing of routes in the passing game. So could this be a McD issue more so than Marrone. I have no idea

I wondered if there was a poor job of self scouting by offense at least. In my field (cybersecurity) we routinely run “red team” exercise to attack ourselves. I felt it seemed that Josh et al hadn’t anticipated how Seattle’s defense might attack our offense, and weren’t prepared for it. Somewhere I read that Seattle blitzed at a 20% rate as their season average, 33% in the first half and then less than 10% in the second half. Subjectively to me it seemed even higher early in Q1. Marrone had not prepared the OL for that, and didn’t have any answers during the game. Or by the time he had answers after halftime Seattle changed things up again.

 

[n1997y]

You don't want to throw rookies into the mix. A lot of the top linemen in the league right now couldn't play as rookies. They need work. Strength, technique.

Now, some of them are ready from day 1, like Penei Sewell or Tristan Wirfs, but they go in the top 10.

Look at Jordan Malaita who is considered the best T in the NFL. He didn't start until his 3rd year.

I think this is a very important point.

It’s why we shouldn’t write off players that aren’t seeing the field as rookies. Bryant may be a really good example.

It’s also why we should expect players on the roster or even the PS to improve and potentially compete for starter roles even if they haven’t been up to that level in the past. Brown, or even Lowe, might be examples.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

According to the OP, yes.

"First off, let me take one thing off the table: the Patriots are not going to trade or cut Campbell. Cutting him means taking a $26M dead money hit, and even trading him would be $11M. Given they have $42M in cap space right now, that's not happening unless Campbell robs a bank or something."

Well that's just ridiculous

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Next season the line will probably be…

LT - Campbell, Munford
LG - Brown, Wilson
C - Linderbaum, Bradbury
RG - Onwenu, Wallace
RT - Moses, Munford

on paper that's not much of change, which would be fine if:
Campbell gets healthy and develops (I'm a supporter since day 1, I think he turns out)
Wilson can develop as an OG, this I am not so sure of.
If we sign Linder, I imagine Wilson and Brown are backups, and we draft a LG.
Maybe Wilson can turn into a decent pro if Campbell develops and Linder is in the mix, but again I am concerned about Wilson at OG.
I don't know if we keep Wallace another year, he wasn't good enough to play this year, I think he's a prime cut candidate.

 

[mgteich]

Hit LG hard. Go find one in FA.

Center: I like the idea of letting Wilson sit for a year. I’d probably just stick with Bradbury for now, unless another vet looks like an upgrade.

RT: I’d stick with Moses, but spend a pick within the first two days on a potential RT of the future.

LT, stick with Campbell, hopefully can bring back Lowe or bring in another vet that can be a good reserve.

RG, stick with Onwenu. I know that pains many to say on here.

YEAR TWO (8 positions)
1) CAMPBELL is in his second year at LT. We will NOT use major resources to try to get someone better.
2) Add a top VETERAN LG (hopefully he can also be an emergency backup at LT).
3) Another year of BRADBURY
4) ONWENU for at least another year, probably extended). [Yes, it is possible that we sign a TOP free agent RG and move on]
5) MOSES for at another year, partnering with Onwenu.
6) BROWN will continue to be an IOL backup,
7) Re-sign MUNFORD as our jumbo back and backup RT.
8) Sign a free agent backup LT or backup LT/LG (could be LOWE)
============
THE REST OF THE CURRENT ROSTER (will more than one to make the roster?
9) WILSON will likely get another year, hopefully developing him as a potential starting center. He's shown very little so far)
10) BRYANT is an alternative to Munford as backup (but probably only at RT).
11) We might draft an OL or 2
12) We MIGHT find out why WALLACE was on the 53.

 

[DaBruinz]

Saw that mentioned in the GDT.

People need to find another avenue to vent their frustrations, as opposed to posting knee-jerk stupidity which is not really intended to be taken seriously.

If you recognize yourself as what I described, please find another way to vent, and save your posts for serious commentary.

Kind of you not to name names. Personally, I'd out them just so that they can be ridiculed for the next few years for saying something so ridiculous.

 

[DaBruinz]

YEAR TWO (8 positions)
1) CAMPBELL is in his second year at LT. We will NOT use major resources to try to get someone better.
2) Add a top VETERAN LG (hopefully he can also be an emergency backup at LT).
3) Another year of BRADBURY
4) ONWENU for at least another year, probably extended). [Yes, it is possible that we sign a TOP free agent RG and move on]
5) MOSES for at another year, partnering with Onwenu.
6) BROWN will continue to be an IOL backup,
7) Re-sign MUNFORD as our jumbo back and backup RT.
8) Sign a free agent backup LT or backup LT/LG (could be LOWE)
============
THE REST OF THE CURRENT ROSTER (will more than one to make the roster?
9) WILSON will likely get another year, hopefully developing him as a potential starting center. He's shown very little so far)
10) BRYANT is an alternative to Munford as backup (but probably only at RT).
11) We might draft an OL or 2
12) We MIGHT find out why WALLACE was on the 53.

The Pats carried 9 O-line most of the year and added a 10th when Munford was signed. The Pats have only carried 8 O-ine line ONE time in 25 years. Yet you keep pretending like that the norm.

 

[DaBruinz]

According to the OP, yes.

"First off, let me take one thing off the table: the Patriots are not going to trade or cut Campbell. Cutting him means taking a $26M dead money hit, and even trading him would be $11M. Given they have $42M in cap space right now, that's not happening unless Campbell robs a bank or something."

It was pointed out by @The Gr8est that someone mentioned just that in the SuperBowl GDT.

I fully agree with your take,

 

[mgteich]

Sure he's old, but he was still solid. That seems more like a position where you ideally look to draft someone who can step in for him in 2027 as opposed to a change you look to make in 2026. Unless that rookie is an immediate upgrade, but that's probably not happening where we're picking.

Not saying it isn't a position to address, but feels unlikely we have a new starter there for 2026.

We will have Munford if Moses needs to be replaced mid-season (and Bryant on the PS).

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

You don't want to throw rookies into the mix. A lot of the top linemen in the league right now couldn't play as rookies. They need work. Strength, technique.

Now, some of them are ready from day 1, like Penei Sewell or Tristan Wirfs, but they go in the top 10.

Look at Jordan Malaita who is considered the best T in the NFL. He didn't start until his 3rd year.

Malaita is not a good example.
He didn't start until his third year because he was a rugby player who never played a down of football before being drafted, of course he was going to need time to develop, he is far from your typical rookie. He was a dart throw that just happened to hit the board. They also had Peters and Johnson, they didn't need to force his development.
You can certainly throw rookie OGs in the mix, there aren't in the same boat as OTs. Plenty of rook OGs are serviceable right from the get go, and some (Mankins, an OT convert) are really good from day 1.

 

[DaBruinz]

Next season the line will probably be…

LT - Campbell, Munford
LG - Brown, Wilson
C - Linderbaum, Bradbury
RG - Onwenu, Wallace
RT - Moses, Munford

If the Pats sign Linderbaum, Bradbury is gone. That also doesn't solve the issue of LG where Wilson is not the answer.

They're better off signing McGovern from the Bills to play LG (where he played prior to playing C) and moving Wilson to be the back-up Center so that he can learn that.

I don't think that Wallace is long for the team. Which is disappointing. But I think he'll be given TC to show what he can do at G.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The GDT is like Vegas. Its ridiculous and what happens there should stay there. LMAO

Moreover, some things there should just never see the light of day, even there.

 

[dliverey44]

If you want an inside running game, we need to replace Bradbury.

I agree that Bradbury will need to be replaced to improve the run game, but would Wilson be an improvement over Bradbury? I know you are on the Linderbaum train and he would undoubtedly be an upgrade, but I would assume that move would leave Wilson at LG. My issue with that is that defenses align over the OGs more often than over the Center so I do not think it would be as impactful as adding a better run blocking LG and that is why I ride the Edwards train.

In reality I do not think Edwards makes it to FA but I think Linderbaum will.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree that Bradbury will need to be replaced to improve the run game, but would Wilson be an improvement over Bradbury? I know you are on the Linderbaum train and he would undoubtedly be an upgrade, but I would assume that move would leave Wilson at LG. My issue with that is that defenses align over the OGs more often than over the Center so I do not think it would be as impactful as adding a better run blocking LG and that is why I ride the Edwards train.

In reality I do not think Edwards makes it to FA but I think Linderbaum will.

I don't know what to do with Wilson. He might be OK in a year or two. We seem to play rookie guards for a year and then move on. Maybe Wilson can move to RG? Either way Linderbaum would open up the inside runs with the right guard combo which would keep the opposing base defenses on the field and make Drake's play action better. Hopefully we plan better and have a real FB next year. We can let Wallace go and Wilson can be a backup while he learns and gets better. Draft a LG or RG and save Onwenu's money. Marrone and crew should know what to do. I am not sure why it is heresy to suggest that Campbell might be a great LG.

 

[n1997y]

I don't know what to do with Wilson. He might be OK in a year or two. We seem to play rookie guards for a year and then move on. Maybe Wilson can move to RG? Either way Linderbaum would open up the inside runs with the right guard combo which would keep the opposing base defenses on the field and make Drake's play action better. Hopefully we plan better and have a real FB next year. We can let Wallace go and Wilson can be a backup while he learns and gets better. Draft a LG or RG and save Onwenu's money. Marrone and crew should know what to do. I am not sure why it is heresy to suggest that Campbell might be a great LG.

I’m confused.

You say Marrone and crew should know what to do,

Marrone and crew say they’re keeping Campbell at LT and won’t move him to guard.

Then you say suggesting Campbell to LG is ok, shouldn’t be heresy.

Do you really trust Marrone and crew? Seems to me you were just talking out of both sides of your mouth in those two statements. You’re really confusing me.