PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Idle thoughts - The "who are these guys" edition


Status
Not open for further replies.
Seeing the teams like the Bills and Ravens at 5-5 made me remember that in 2001 the Pats were 5-5 and coming off a loss (to the Rams), before they went on THEIR run to glory. So you never know in this league. It might seem ridiculous now, but back then no one thought of the Pats as a superbowl contender either.

I am making this a separate point just to highlight it. Please, please lets not somehow start this stupid Ravens narrative again. Their team is an unfixable pile of trash on offense. There is no midseason fix for that. Can we just skip that narrative this year ?
 
Does anybody want Baltimore in the #6 seed and then going into KC or Jax and winning? I know that offense is awful but the defense is good and Jump Ball Joey is one of those players who just seems to play better and have a horseshoe shoved up his rumper against the Pats.

Yes. The Ravens are total garbage. Unless for uncharacteristic 4-5 turnovers on offense it would be the closest thing to a BYE.
 
I don’t think we’re going to get anything from Dorsett, so having Mitchell back would not only serve as great injury insurance, but it would give us the potential to improve upon the WR3/WR4–drastically.

Dont understand the Dorsett hate going around. He seems to be an able blocker in the run game and is used mostly as a decoy (and emergency depth in case Cooks gets dinged) on routes to clear up space for others to make a play.

I think we all expected a bit more heading into week 12 of the season. Just my opinion. Having Mitchell would provide an enormous upgrade to that position, and God forbid someone else gets hurt and thrusts him into a larger role because he certainly isn’t on the same page as Brady.

Mitchell is a completely different player than Dorsett though. I dont see how he would be an upgrade when he would be responsible for completely different routes and concepts. With Marty on board personally I would rather have VV back if possible.
 
The only three issues that could be considered slightly concerning (aside from the obvious injuries):

—the continued poor play by the run defense. I believe they were already giving up 5.0 ypc coming into the game, so allowing an even worse average yesterday may be mildly concerning. They seem to still be a bit inconsistent. A bit up/down. I’d like to see that improve down the stretch. Obviously, the return of a guy like Brown or Valentine would go a long way in helping that cause. I’ve been impressed with the makeshift parts and the adaptation, but it’s still definitely something that they’ll need to improve upon.

—Butler has also been rather inconsistent, and I don’t know how confident I’d be seeing him in his usual one-on-one matchup with someone like Antonio Brown, right now. No reason for panic, but something to keep an eye on.

—Dorsett is not contributing at all as a WR3, with the understanding that they’re purposely spreading the ball around to anyone but him. Our offense is much more explosive with Hogan, but it’s great to see them preparing and executing without him, in terms of going more to the RBs and TEs. It’s great to have options with Bennett and Allen now, too. I’d have loved the ability to bring in a guy like Mitchell to add as an immediate upgrade, and he’d also have been great injury insurance.

A couple of things, I think the Patriots gave them the run a bit and focused on the receiving corps this game. I didn't see a lot of run heavy packages or run blitzes this game, but to be honest I was kind of distracted with some other things going on.

Butler has been inconsistent, but he's always been a little inconsistent, this year just more so than others. He's never been a true shut down corner, but rather a guy with great instincts, prepares well, and takes some chances based on those two factors. It seems he's rolling snake eyes a bit more this year than others.

Dorsett has been doing ok with his limited targets. He seems to draw two defenders a lot for how little he catches the ball. It seems like almost every throw I've seen to him, he's been bracketed down the field.

Yeah I agree, the world is coming to an end, Allen had another game with the ball ending up in his hands. It's SB or bust now with that monster on the field.

It's interesting, I wonder if Bennet is too hurt to block well. It seems they are sending him out more than Gronk right now. He also seems to be quite ginger on the field. But he is turning out to be a great short range target at least.
 
Cooks continues to get screwed in non-PI calls. Twice in the past two games, DBs have pinned his arm as he attempts to reach for catches....and crickets
The one yesterday was a good no-call. In the replay you can see the ref making the "uncatchable ball" signal and I agree with him. (I just wish the "must be a catchable ball" DPI criterion was paid attention to by the refs more often.)
 
I wonder if part of Butler's problems this year are because he feels the pressure to "make big plays" almost in an Assante Samuel mode. How often have we seen him get beat on double and triple moves. I'm thinking its because he is guessing in order to make that "big play" rather than play reads and knowing where his help is and using that knowledge.
I think this is spot on. MB is hurting himself and the team just a bit by sometimes being too aggressive at playing the ball rather than the man. It's a fine line and we don't want him being too cautious but the league's book on him has to say that he's susceptible to double moves early in the route.
 
Um, did you happen to leave your house or look out the window today? It was windy as hell in the early afternoon here as it was in New Jersey. That's why they lost...it's not the only reason they lost but it was a big factor.
KC beat themselves with egregiously timed penalties, too. But that's yesterday's reason (as well as the wind as you stated) but they are 1-4 since their 5-0 start....they have other issues with that offense.
 
Re: Bennett.

If Hogan is healthy, I think he sits.
 
This game was so one sided that I was trying to think of a coherent title that reflected this game, and it wasn't until about a couple of minutes ago that it occurred to me. Perhaps as I think about further an alternative title could be, "the gap between image and reality". OK let me explain.

I was looking at this team that EVERY expects to be great. A juggernaut that sweeps over their opponents like a tornado that leaves nothing standing at the end of the game. Sort of like what we saw tonight.....and last week. But as I watched L'Adrian Waddle and Ted Karras, and Reilly, and MFlowers, etc, etc playing this game and you have to wonder why anyone would ever think that way.

Think about it. I doubt anyone on the OL is getting any pro bowl votes. And that's for the starters. Today we were missing 2 of them and STILL gave Brady all the time he needed (including the one sack they did get) Do you think anyone on the on the DL or LB's is going to get a probowl vote? Even in the secondary where our best players are at, are not acknowledged stars. No superstars there. Just a lot of good players. No pass rush, below average in creating TO's and STILL giving up the most yds in the league. Yet over the last 6 games they've gone from 32nd in scoring D to 13th.....with essentially no names. :eek:

So what we have here is Brady and Gronk, with maybe Cooks getting a few votes but not enough to get in. I don't see a juggernaut here. There are probable a dozen OL's that will grade better. There are probably TWO dozen DL's other fans would take, and every one of them would have 2 or three players who are so called stars. No great RB's. I mean the local media is getting wet over Dion Lewis who ran for 60 yds tonight. :rolleyes: I love him too, but I'm a fan.

So I guess my long winded point is, what team that is above .500 that has FEWER big name players than the Pats, yet if you ask anyone outside of NE, the Pats are "loaded". But with who? Trevor Reilly? MFlowers?, JBadimosi? the donut king?, etc??????? I guess in the end. I'm kind of in awe of how the Pats keep developing players that might not be stars, yet contribute to their success and this team TRULY is at team where the sum of the group is greater than its individual parts. But enough of my rambling. Lets break it down.

1. Offense- Another great plan by Josh. My favorite stat of the night came when Brady was 9 for 9 to SIX different receivers in the first drive. Who do you cover? THAT is a great game plan. The other very interesting stat that should provoke some discussion was just how efficient the offense was. They only had the ball 58 plays (compared to Oakland's 71), and just held the ball 27 minutes. My guess if Josh had his way he wouldn't mind playing Jack Del Rio's defenses every single game (with a few Steeler games thrown in. ;) ), The only negative on offense (if you can call it that), were the 4 FG's, For an offense as good as this one, if you have 7 scoring drives, you like to have more TD's than FG's

a. QB - Brady's completion percentage topped 80%, and his movement in the pocket seems to be getting better every week. What can we say that I haven't said every other week. Brady led the team to scores on every possession they had the ball save one. THAT a damned good night.

b. OL - One of may favorite announcer quotes of the night was when someone finally mentioned the the Pats were starting their back up C, and they did some research on his history as a C.....and he had none. :eek: Karras was amazing. It was his first start EVER at C. Clearly he protected well, but what amazed me was how well he snapped the ball in his first game. Lots of shotgun stuff too, and EVERY one was on target. Dante is a GOD! Every week we see back up OLmen get crushed in games, yet the Pats lose 2 of their top OLmen, and replace them like nothing happened. Just another 6th round afterthought that contributes.

The OL grade slipped to an A- because Shaq Mason had some rare misses tonight. IIRC he's been the Pats highest rated OLmen this season, but he got beat twice that I saw in the first half. This game must be the exception that proves the rule. At any rate the OL continues its improvement with a pretty clean game. Just one coverage sack and, I'm guessing, 3 or 4 QB hits. That's a pretty clean game for a banged up OL.

c. RB's - Decent night, but nothing spectacular. Burkhead and Lewis accounted for 8 catches, but for just 49 yds, Also interesting to note, zero catches for "sweet feet" tonight. Now THAT is a rarity. As far as rushing, we only managed 89 yds between the 3 RB's and only Lewis managed more than 4ypc.

d. Receivers - Clearly Cooks' 146 yds on 6 catches was the highlight of the night. Most people think of Cooks skill set as being mostly about his speed, but I think maybe his ability to track deep balls with Jackie Bradley like ability may be equally impressive. I've felt this entire year that Josh has kind of kept Cooks under wraps early in the season. Tonight might have been his coming out party.

Kudos again to DA for doing a lot of the dirty work with 8 catches for 66 yds. He's the guy who keep moving the chains. He's not waiting this year for the playoffs to make his contribution. With Edelman and Mitchell out this entire season, he's been a life saver.

Interesting that the TE's had a very quiet night, even with the fact they caught 8 ball between them. Gronk didn't have much of an impact, and while Allen doubled his output from last week, he only amassed 24 yds. Now as for Bennett, I couldn't help but feel every time he caught the ball he was looking for a soft place to go down. Now we are better WITH him on the team, but right now he's playing hurt and a bit timid, IMHO. Am I wrong here?

2. Defense - This truly is the no name D. As good as he's played KVN isn't striking fear into any DC's heart, and neither is David Harris, MFlowers, ERobers, and TReilly. The job Matty P is doing to make this thing work they way it has the last 6 games is truly remarkable. He knows the strengths of his team and he is fitting it together pretty well. He was playing the best pass protection in the league thus far, and the Pats pass rush was at LEAST as good as Oakland's He deserves a Kudo + for his work.

I mean, it looks horrible when you see it, yet somehow through blue smoke and mirrors at the end of the game you look up at the scoreboard and the points given up is outstanding. Nice to see 2 TO's today. Those need to keep coming. It seems like when you are watching other games they are getting 4 and 5 TO's in the game.

a. Front 7 - I guess I should be thrilled to see us doing so well on defense when Trevor Reilly and MFlowers are getting a bunch of snaps in the game plan. Just another of the "ST's guys" who are coming off the bench to do decent work. MFlower's forced fumble might have been the key play in the game. It was like a 10 point swing.

Elandon Roberts has improved his pass coverage and made at least 2 nice jobs that I noticed. He was right in the pocket on that wheel route.

The run D was definitely not as good as we would have liked and we were fortunate to get that big lead, which led to Oakland pretty much abandoning a run game that was pretty effective. 110 yds on 21 attempts. (5.2 ypc) Lynch had his best game of his season averaging just of 6 ypc. But I did have to smile when Oakland went for it of 4th and 1, and Lynch was on the bench......AGAIN. ;)

b. Secondary. - Another very solid game by the secondary. Almost every pass Carr threw was closely contested. We didn't seem to have a single communication break down. Not everything was perfect, but area of the game has improved each week, and will get even better when Rowe finally gets back.

When I saw Gilmore struggling to get up the ramp, I was sure he was done for the game. He looked like he was 90. Amazing what a little hydration will do for the body.

Patrick Chung really doesn't get the kind of appreciation he should for the job he does. Another game with 9 tackles and a number of good cov werages.

Tony Romo did a very informative breakdown of Malcom Butler getting beat on the one Oakland score. He was right in pointing out that Butler clearly had inside help, yet he bit on the inside move and caught when the receiver broke back outside. Gilmore on a very similar route didn't bite on the inside move and broke up the play. Nice catch by Romo.

I wonder if part of Butler's problems this year are because he feels the pressure to "make big plays" almost in an Assante Samuel mode. How often have we seen him get beat on double and triple moves. I'm thinking its because he is guessing in order to make that "big play" rather than play reads and knowing where his help is and using that knowledge. Just a thought.

3. ST's - Another good night. Interesting that the Pats didn't test CPatterson tonight and after kicking 7 out of 8 KO's short vs Denver, they only kicked one of 7 short tonight.Game specific, right?

More important to me wasn't how far Gotskowki kicked the ball, was that it went straight. No curves, sliders, and screwballs tonight. His 62 yarder would have easily been good at 70. Ironic that if the Pats had been slightly less efficient in their 33 second drive, he'd have broken a league record for the longest FG.

4. General thoughts.

a. I watch a couple of games today before our game, and I got the impression that penalties were down. I thought the refs were relatively invisible in our game, same goes for the other games I watched. Earlier this year, it seemed you could get 3 plays in a row without a flag flying. If any of the stat geeks could cooberate or debunk this feeling, I'd appreciate.

b. The Pats were a victim of a really bad call on KVN roughing flag. Hard to run into the kicker when your back is turned to him and you are running in the opposite direction. Oscar winning performance by the Oakland punter. On the other hand they got a few marginal calls. The OPI, I thought was pretty weak, and I thought the roughing the passer call was really bad. The guy had been knocked down and WRAPPED Brady.

c. At any rate, cutting down on the penalties has been a hidden, yet important factor over the last 2 weeks.

d. How the f*ck can KC put 40+ on us, and then 2 months later lose to the Giants in the FG bowl. How is that even possible. But it should point out just how small the margin of error in an NFL game. If you don't come to play, ANYONE can beat you.

e. Seeing the teams like the Bills and Ravens at 5-5 made me remember that in 2001 the Pats were 5-5 and coming off a loss (to the Rams), before they went on THEIR run to glory. So you never know in this league. It might seem ridiculous now, but back then no one thought of the Pats as a superbowl contender either.

f. The Mexican Pats fans were very loud in this game, and as the game wore on, like the team itself, they became dominant. Brady chants were clearly heard several times during the game. Oakland might have had more fans their, but OUR's were better.

g. Eagles have a very nice team. They are going to be a VERY tough out in the NFC. They not only crushed the Cowboys, they did it on the road. Very impressive.

h. Lombardi in one of his podcasts referred to Dallas HC Jason Garrett as "the clapper", because he doesn't seem to do much but clap to encourage his team...and not much else. Dallas it seems is the opposite of the Pats. They have a LOT of "star" players, yet they don't develop their subs, or make adjustments well at all. BTW- is the league starting to catch up with Dak Prescott a bit?

i. I watch a bit of the Eagle game and came away very impressed with Carson Wentz. After seeing the final score, I was shocked to find out he only threw for 168 yds. That's not what you'd expect when the team put up 37 points. I image he's going to get a lot of love from the media this week, but I wonder if the success of the Eagles is less about Wentz and more about the talent on the team....including old friend Chris Long.

j. You'd have to go back a ways to remember as bad a coaching decision as the one to bench the QB who led you to a 5-4 record and playoff contention, and replace him with an untested 5th round pick, and THEN let him throw 5 picks in the first half of his career.

Not only do you tell the rest of the team, their playoff ambitions are dead, you might have ruined a decent prospect. What the Bills fans saw on Sunday might have the same thing Pats fans might have seen in 2000 if Brady had been thrown to the wolves before he was ready. I WEEP for Kyle Williams, who I think has had a great career playing for a bad team.

OK, I've hit the 3am time limit, and I'll end it here. Comment, complain, elucidate, and add insight to what I've written. You know I have to start writing this earlier. :D




.

Each week, best Patriots read on earth. Bar none.

.
 
Josh figured it out eventually but he was married to the screen passes in the first half. Let's not say he figured it out right out of the gate.


Oakland read that screen pass play 4 times in a row perfectly before Josh finally tossed it away. By the 4th time I was screaming at the set (although that was the only time I was ticked off yesterday).

.
 
Excellent write-up, @patfanken -- thank you. There was so much to like in that game, but you've put your finger on one of the most satisfying -- not only did the team play very well, but they got great contributions from people who, at the start of the season, wouldn't have been key players. M. Flowers's punch-out was the play of the game, for me: smart, athletic, competitive -- just first-rate in every way.

Brady was absolutely awesome (thanks to the O-line) and the Gost looks back where he should be.

The biggest negative, I thought, was the run defense. M. Lynch showed what a real power back can do, and it wasn't pretty to see him pull defenders for an extra six yards after contact. Hurry back, Malcom Brown (and Vince Valentine?)
 
I get 8 hours of sleep every single night...including last night. And I feel GREAT this morning!

And I never look at my phone after 10pm. Sleep is good....
 
WhatI noticed:

Despite the Pats practicing at the high altitude the week prior, the Patriots had 2 players (Gilmore and Amendola) go off for dehydration. I don't remember any Raiders going off for cramps or dehydration. At least, not that the announcers mentioned..

On the "Running into the Kicker" penalty, what was missed by the ref is that Van Noy was flung into the kicker by the defender. As Ken mentioned, Van Noy was actually facing away from the kicker and trying to move in the other direction when the kicker hit him..

I'm glad that the Pats didn't give up a final score to the Raiders in garbage time. I was disappointed that, offensively, they seemed to relax and take their foot off the gas and defensively, they seemed to get softer in the second half.

A more than 3 minute walk one way is absolutely ridiculous for teams to get to the locker-room.

Anyone else find it odd that Fleming got the start at RT over Waddle when Waddle had done so well the last 2 games?
 
The one yesterday was a good no-call. In the replay you can see the ref making the "uncatchable ball" signal and I agree with him. (I just wish the "must be a catchable ball" DPI criterion was paid attention to by the refs more often.)

Which time? The one in the end zone, I agree. The other one, however, it was catchable as it was just a yard away and the DB held his wrist preventing him from extending..
 
I think squib kicking at that even higher altitude would have meant adapting the mechanics yet again, so after all the problems of the last year they just decided to skip that and just go for training 70 yarders during kickoff seems to have worked.
 
Which time? The one in the end zone, I agree. The other one, however, it was catchable as it was just a yard away and the DB held his wrist preventing him from extending..
I would say more like 5 yards ahead which would make it a tough catch at least. I would say Gronk gets a lot of leeway when it comes to the definition of catchable so we can let that one slide.
 
7. Does anybody think the Pats don't go into Pitt and sew up the #1 seed?

8. Does anybody want Baltimore in the #6 seed and then going into KC or Jax and winning?

Based on history, the prospect of facing the Ravens in the playoffs is more concerning than facing the Steelers in the regular season. Hasn't Brady lost to the Steelers just once in his entire career?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top