Idle thoughts - The "cracks in the armor" edition.

[luuked]

I think you are holding on too strongly to this position, luuked. It doesn't take a football savant to notice the difference between the 2 runners. This isn't to diminish what Sony accomplished last season, BUT what we see is what we see.

I am not holding on to any position. I am just explaining reality to people who live in some fantasy land where they just copy paste players from one team onto the other and everything is magically fitting together.

The reality is that Sony Michel was ****ing amazing for the latter part of his rookie year and especially the post season. The reality is that his contributions went far beyond finishing drives and scoring TDs. His fourth down run to a TD in Kansas City is low key ignored. His run through the Rams out of our own endzone in the SB was absolutely ****ing huge.

Saying it was a mistake to draft him is absolutely silly. Whether Chubb ends up also looking like a better RB or not when we look back on it in 4-5 years doesn't change that picking Michel worked out spectacularly well for the Patriots already in his rookie season.

But then again SB titles have lost their meanings and impact to a lot of people as some threads indicate where instead they think of 2 in a row or going 19-0. The same is true with draft picks. The effing greed of more makes people just irrational.

 

[reflexblue]

I

I don’t just slap an A+ on a draft pick because they played on a Super Bowl winner. He played well in the post season last year but he just isn’t a special back. He doesn’t make many people miss, he doesn’t break off big TD runs, and now this year he is struggling in short yardage. I’m not saying he’s a bad player I’m just saying he’s not “special” like you expect from an early round RB.

Going back to the '18 draft I hadn't heard of either michel or chubb. when I started reading a out the two of them I wondered why the pats had taken michel over other ribs including chubb, because michel had knee issues. I would have rather seen the pats take chubb. But like someone posted after the drat(I think kontra) if we win the SB he would be a great pick. you need to stop dwelling on what 'we should have' done, its water over the dam.

 

[203Pat]

I am not holding on to any position. I am just explaining reality to people who live in some fantasy land where they just copy paste players from one team onto the other and everything is magically fitting together.

The reality is that Sony Michel was ****ing amazing for the latter part of his rookie year and especially the post season. The reality is that his contributions went far beyond finishing drives and scoring TDs. His fourth down run to a TD in Kansas City is low key ignored. His run through the Rams out of our own endzone in the SB was absolutely ****ing huge.

Saying it was a mistake to draft him is absolutely silly. Whether Chubb ends up also looking like a better RB or not when we look back on it in 4-5 years doesn't change that picking Michel worked out spectacularly well for the Patriots already in his rookie season.

But then again SB titles have lost their meanings and impact to a lot of people as some threads indicate where instead they think of 2 in a row or going 19-0. The same is true with draft picks. The effing greed of more makes people just irrational.

This is the same argument I get any time I don’t deem a pick a home run: “we won the super bowl with him”. The “you can’t just copy and paste a player” argument doesn’t work here either. Michel and Chubb came from the exact same program, at the exact same time. They obviously were in the same system. That’s about as close to copy and paste as you will ever get in a hypothetical.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

We didn't just "win the super bowl with him"

He was one of the main reasons WHY we won a SB, and his contributions are not easily replaceable.

NE picked Sony because he as the more explosive player. Arguably, injuries and this year's O-line issues have kept us from seeing that in the past two regular seasons, and maybe we won't. Chubb has been way better than SEC fans / followers expected, I will give him that.

 

[203Pat]

We didn't just "win the super bowl with him"

He was one of the top treasons WHY we won a SB, and his contributions are not easily replaceable.

NE picked Sony because he as the more explosive player. Arguably, injuries and this year's O-line issues have kept us from seeing that in the past two regular seasons, and maybe we won't. Chubb has been better than SEC fans / followers expected, I will give him that.

The question boiled down to “would Chubb be able to do what Sony did last year?” My answer is yes. Anyone else is free to disagree.
Sony is pretty far removed from any injury and granted this offensive line sucks he isn’t doing much to make anyone miss. At this point I think Sony is who he is. I was hoping for an Alvin Kamara type but I think Sony is more of a BenJarvus Green-Ellis type. Competent but not special.

 

[MUFC7]

I don’t just slap an A+ on a draft pick because they played on a Super Bowl winner. He played well in the post season last year but he just isn’t a special back. He doesn’t make many people miss, he doesn’t break off big TD runs, and now this year he is struggling in short yardage. I’m not saying he’s a bad player I’m just saying he’s not “special” like you expect from an early round RB.

Sony Michel just didn't play on a SB team. He was a big reason why the Patriots had a Super Bowl run and win. Without Michel I don't think that Chiefs game ends in a W. He scored the only TD in the SB. Honestly I get where you are coming from. Compared to other RB he doesn't look anything special but honestly you draft players to contribute to Super Bowl wins. He not only contributed to that but was the main player in the running game. A+ pick.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Tom Brady has 9 more TD's to throw to overtake Peyton Manning on the all-time list. I seem to remember all the pomp and circumstance when Manning was about to eclipse Favre. They're not doing that with Brady which is odd. You'd figure being so close to breaking the record that it would be bigger news.

They throw Brady (and the team) a party when he wins another (record) Super Bowl. Different standards for different QBs, I think.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I am not holding on to any position. I am just explaining reality to people who live in some fantasy land where they just copy paste players from one team onto the other and everything is magically fitting together.

The reality is that Sony Michel was ****ing amazing for the latter part of his rookie year and especially the post season. The reality is that his contributions went far beyond finishing drives and scoring TDs. His fourth down run to a TD in Kansas City is low key ignored. His run through the Rams out of our own endzone in the SB was absolutely ****ing huge.

Saying it was a mistake to draft him is absolutely silly. Whether Chubb ends up also looking like a better RB or not when we look back on it in 4-5 years doesn't change that picking Michel worked out spectacularly well for the Patriots already in his rookie season.

But then again SB titles have lost their meanings and impact to a lot of people as some threads indicate where instead they think of 2 in a row or going 19-0. The same is true with draft picks. The effing greed of more makes people just irrational.

Long term, give me Chubb. He will be one of NFLs superstars for the next 5 years. Sony is an average talent in an amazing system.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Good for her for watching and being involved. My wife is really into it after learning more and more the past decade or so.

.

After 30 years of watching football with me, my wife asked what a cornerback is the other day.

 

[luuked]

Michel and Chubb came from the exact same program, at the exact same time. They obviously were in the same system.

How does coming from the same program or playing the same position implies being similar players ?

**** Chubb is a closer comparison to Burkhead than Michel in terms of style.

 

[203Pat]

How does coming from the same program or playing the same position implies being similar players ?

**** Chubb is a closer comparison to Burkhead than Michel in terms of style.

They clearly played in the same scheme with the same supporting. Ergo if they thought Sony’s skills would translate into our system then it’s reasonable to assume they would think Chubb’s would as well. I think they just misevaluated the actual physical skill set of the players.

 

[luuked]

They clearly played in the same scheme with the same supporting. Ergo if they thought Sony’s skills would translate into our system then it’s reasonable to assume they would think Chubb’s would as well. I think they just misevaluated the actual physical skill set of the players.

This might be the most idiotic thing I have ever read in terms of substituting players' skillsets.

Hurr, Durr player A and player B played on the same team as RBs so their skillsets and characteristics must be a nice intersection.


It really is a tragedy that BB and Caserio keep their jobs every year despite mere posters clearly having a better grip on drafting than them year after year.

 

[50-yard-line]

-The team shouldn't have to go for it on every kick that is 40 yards or more. That increases the likelihood of not getting points. Against great teams that will come back to haunt them. This position needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. He's definitely a liability.

- Karras had a rough game. Noticed more floaters out there too. The OL as a whole was poor. An extra blocker may be necessary against Baltimore. Or scheming needs work.

-Choosing Michel over Chubb was definitely a mistake. Chubb is able to pick up big yards without spectacular blocking and/or holes. Not so much for Sony. The drafting/personnel decisions over the past few years is a topic for a different day.

-Unless a trade is made for a lineman before Sunday. Or a tight end is brought in (Both very unlikely), it's up to the defense to get us to 9-0. BB has had alot of success against 1st and 2nd year starters. Hope that continues.

League wide, the Colts are looking very good. And other than @New Orleans & Houston, their schedule is very favorable. Need them to drop a few more games.

1. Upgrading a kicker isn't really much of an option. And you can't go by yesterday - the field was a mess and it was pouring.

2. Cleveland's DL is much better than Baltimore's DL.

3. Cleveland's OL is much better than New England's OL at this time - the Pats were defending big plays and have an undersized line, Cleveland's OL was opening HUGE holes for Chubb. The guy is really good, I agree. Top-tier rusher. How's his pass protection? Which of the two will be better in the passing game?

The constant nattering about Michel is ridiculous. He could have been New England's playoff MVP last year.

4. Mason will be back, I hope. That would help a lot.

Finally, the only reason the Colts beat the terrible Broncos at home in a dome yesterday was because Von Miller lost his grip on Brissett for a winning safety.

 

[203Pat]

This might be the most idiotic thing I have ever read in terms of substituting players' skillsets.

Hurr, Durr player A and player B played on the same team as RBs so their skillsets and characteristics must be a nice intersection.


It really is a tragedy that BB and Caserio keep their jobs every year despite mere posters clearly having a better grip on drafting than them year after year.

“I don’t like what you have to say so you’re stupid” very mature.
In college both guys ran in-between the tackles. Both of them had seasons where they were the “bell cow” back. Both of them caught passes (funny enough Sony caught more).
Sony was thought to be more elusive (even though PFF disagreed) and also had less wear and tear with less carries.
Not sure where you get the notion that they were drastically different backs. Also the original question is would I rather have had Chubb not knowing what he could have done or had Sony knowing what he did. I would still take my chances with the better running back.

 

[Nunchucks]

Chubb looked great in pass protection on that third down play where he was run over by a LB and allowed a big sack. A RB that big should not be getting run over by LBs, I've seen Kevin Faulk stop LBs in their tracks.

 

[SBLIII]

I'm not sure what people are expecting. What are the odds you can get a better player than Michel at pick 31? They aren't very high.

He isn't a Pro Bowler but he isn't Rashaad Penny either.

It was a good pick that already paid dividends.

Chubb is the better back but he would not look good behind this OL either.

 

[Nunchucks]

I'm not sure what people are expecting. What are the odds you can get a better player than Michel at pick 31? They aren't very high.

He isn't a Pro Bowler but he isn't Rashaad Penny either.

It was a good pick that already paid dividends.

Chubb is the better back but he would not look good behind this OL either.

Would Chubb be able to even start here in NE? Harris cannot even crack the game day roster when there is a clear opening for a RB with Burkhead out. Instead, a perennial special teams player, in Bolden (who has played great in his role), gets snaps ahead of him.

Belichick would not put somebody back there who doesn't know the playbook and who cannot pass protect. We know Chubb is iffy in protection and really, the playbook is probably another area where we don't know much about.

He may be a physically gifted runner, which IMO he looks big and fast and difficult to bring down. However, there is a lot that goes into playing for the Patriots.

 

[50-yard-line]

This is the same argument I get any time I don’t deem a pick a home run: “we won the super bowl with him”. The “you can’t just copy and paste a player” argument doesn’t work here either. Michel and Chubb came from the exact same program, at the exact same time. They obviously were in the same system. That’s about as close to copy and paste as you will ever get in a hypothetical.

And in that same system, they were almost identical statistically.

Which is a better pass protector? Which fits better with what you want to do?

Has Cleveland this year used Chubb to open up play-action (making up for a depleted OL and WR corps)?

The Pats did that a lot this year. Every time Sony was back there, the LBs and safeties moved up, expecting, and getting, a run play. There was even a write-up showing Brady completing a ton of passes on play-action with Sony in the game. With Landry and OBJ, did Cleveland employ this strategy?

 

[PP2]

Would Chubb be able to even start here in NE? Harris cannot even crack the game day roster when there is a clear opening for a RB with Burkhead out. Instead, a perennial special teams player, in Bolden (who has played great in his role), gets snaps ahead of him.

Belichick would not put somebody back there who doesn't know the playbook and who cannot pass protect. We know Chubb is iffy in protection and really, the playbook is probably another area where we don't know much about.

He may be a physically gifted runner, which IMO he looks big and fast and difficult to bring down. However, there is a lot that goes into playing for the Patriots.

It's not about Harris being able to "crack" the active roster- he's being redshirted just like White and Vereen were.

 

[p8ryts]

-The team shouldn't have to go for it on every kick that is 40 yards or more. That increases the likelihood of not getting points. Against great teams that will come back to haunt them. This position needs to be upgraded as soon as possible. He's definitely a liability.

- Karras had a rough game. Noticed more floaters out there too. The OL as a whole was poor. An extra blocker may be necessary against Baltimore. Or scheming needs work.

-Choosing Michel over Chubb was definitely a mistake. Chubb is able to pick up big yards without spectacular blocking and/or holes. Not so much for Sony. The drafting/personnel decisions over the past few years is a topic for a different day.

-Unless a trade is made for a lineman before Sunday. Or a tight end is brought in (Both very unlikely), it's up to the defense to get us to 9-0. BB has had alot of success against 1st and 2nd year starters. Hope that continues.

League wide, the Colts are looking very good. And other than @New Orleans & Houston, their schedule is very favorable. Need them to drop a few more games.

"The drafting/personnel decisions over the past few years is a topic for a different day." Every time I see this post, and I see it every week from someone new, I have to shake my head. How many Super Bowls have this team been in "the past few years"? Is this team 8-0? Is the defense good? Were they remiss in not having like replacements for the injured Wynn, Gostowski and Andrews or the retired Gronkowski? Perfection is a goal but rarely attainable. Yet, with a coach that is the absolute best at building a TEAM, people constantly second guess him. I get it, New England fans! Michel vs. Chubb. Chubb wins yardage and fumbles. Michel wins TDs behind a line described as "poor" above.

I support BB unequivocally.