Idle Thoughts - the AM edition

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Chargers
Pick Results: NE: 0% at LAC: 0%

Sun
Dec 6th

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

shmessy

Northern VA/Retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
What no love for the Ghost? I am surprised that there has not been a whisper on his name this week. All three FG's were on the long side and his touchback ratio remains superlative. Converting those drives into points gave the whole team visible confidence.

Thank you for mentioning this Buchanty. It has been hard for me not to celebrate Ghost shutting up the critics here the past two weeks.

The guy missed ONE in a driving rain against the Jets,making him a lowly 5 for 6 at that time, and the calls were flying in here to cut him immediately. It is incredible how kneejerk some people are.

The other thing last night that was great to see was Ryan Allen's performance. I'm a huge Mesko fan, and his release still stings, but the Allen kid really did do a nice job last night. In particular, that beauty he hit while standing in the Pats endzone was fielded somewhere around the Falcon's 32. Nice bomb!
 
Last edited:

zydecochris

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Great, insightful post as usual with you Ken, thanks.

I have been reading PatsFan.com and watching games religiously (on TV) for at least a decade, but yesterday was my first stadium Patriots game.

At work, with my research, we occasionally solicit fresh eyes to make sure that we don't get entrenched in ways of thinking. I'm not sure if anyone is interested, but here (very briefly), is really stood out to me for my first in game Patriots experience, from my "not ever being at a Patriots game in person" fresh eyes.

* First, seeing Tom Brady at work in person is soooo much different than on TV. Admittedly this was a good game for him, but I think that many Patsfan.com posters (who talk about all of his misses, etc.) have just lost the appreciation. In person, his passing (in the context of the pass rush, etc.) is simply unbelievable, it was really hard for me to believe what I was seeing (it looks so much easier on TV). Watching him in person is an experience I will never forget. ....Along those lines, I've heard criticisms of his body language. Even from my seat far away, there was just something about his command and charisma. On the field at least, I don't think I have ever seen such command. Just a natural leader.

* I think that BB is the best coach ever, but weirdly (to me, from my distance) he was almost hard to notice. There was not the same long distance charisma oozing from him evident from a distance as with Tom Brady, I expected the same "everyone looking at him" charisma, but I didn't notice that. I think he was a little more involved in actually winning the game than how he looked. Not a criticism, just a bit of a surprise for me, I guess given his stature I expected lighting bolts playing around his head.

* From my fresh eyes (from the end zone), the person on defense that appeared to the the best person on the field was McCourtney. I have read about how others are faster, or more talented, etc. Just from my eyes, he seemed to be flying around (he looked so much faster than I have heard on this board) and always knowing where he was going. Hard to describe, but in person he was the most impressive defensive person in my eyes.

* On an OT, the other person that just looked different than the other people around him was Julio Jones. He just seemed to be at a different level with respect to speed at that size. I wish we had him. :D
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
First, seeing Tom Brady at work in person is soooo much different than on TV. Admittedly this was a good game for him, but I think that many Patsfan.com posters (who talk about all of his misses, etc.) have just lost the appreciation. In person, his passing (in the context of the pass rush, etc.) is simply unbelievable, it was really hard for me to believe what I was seeing (it looks so much easier on TV). Watching him in person is an experience I will never forget. ....Along those lines, I've heard criticisms of his body language. Even from my seat far away, there was just something about his command and charisma. On the field at least, I don't think I have ever seen such command. Just a natural leader.

we post preseason camp reports here that state the exact same view...and the next minute, some clown who watches games on his Ipod writes a thread about how Brady is losing it, his arm is weak and he can't throw downfield anymore....plus he should shut up, never show any emotion and why isn't he like Pay-Me-Tons?...*sob...snifff...whimper*...it is what it is as some famous Pats coach says from time to time. Thanks for the post, Patriot brother-in-arms...and make it up HERE for a game when you can.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
We have the cap space available for a mid sized contract - maybe that's why it's still there, unused.

We have a ton of our own within the next 18 months to try and resign, so my feelings are that we will be relatively conservative next spring in the free agent market, aside from a couple/few of the usual mid to low level signings that we've grown accustomed to seeing.

Talib, McCourty, Solder, Wilfork, Connelly, Wendell, Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Edelman, Spikes, Slater....the list goes on and on.

I'm assuming that anything is possible, but that the percentage of a trade (2 yrs in a row to boot) wouldn't be too good. The high majority of that money is likely to be used as a cap carry over, unless they would resign one of the core players during the season with a portion of it.

Just not feeling too much spent on an outsider, but that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
* On an OT, the other person that just looked different than the other people around him was Julio Jones. He just seemed to be at a different level with respect to speed at that size. I wish we had him. :D

I wish we had him too, Chris, but I don't see any scenario where Belichick would pull the trigger on something like that. The number of picks that ATL gave up was insane, and there's always a decent chance that the player targeted doesn't work out for whatever reason. It's been widely reported, as I'm sure you already know, that Belichick gave advice to Dimitroff NOT to pull the trigger on that kind of gamble. I believe that it was brought up in Holley's book "War room."

I'll be interested to see how ATL manages their cap moves when it's time to resign Jones to a monster pact, seeing as how they already pay Roddy White and Matt Ryan nice amounts. There has to be a lack of talent or some kind of problem somewhere when moves like that are made.

In the meantime, we'll have to hope that we just get lucky through the draft and a couple of free agent signings to find anything close to "our" version of a guy like Julio Jones.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Thank you for mentioning this Buchanty. It has been hard for me not to celebrate Ghost shutting up the critics here the past two weeks.

The guy missed ONE in a driving rain against the Jets,making him a lowly 5 for 6 at that time, and the calls were flying in here to cut him immediately. It is incredible how kneejerk some people are.

The other thing last night that was great to see was Ryan Allen's performance. I'm a huge Mesko fan, and his release still stings, but the Allen kid really did do a nice job last night. In particular, that beauty he hit while standing in the Pats endzone was fielded somewhere around the Falcon's 32. Nice bomb!

Allen has proven himself so far in my book, Shmessy. Both his punting and holding have been very good, as Gost himself has mentioned his ability to properly dig out a couple of FG attempts that were snapped low and in the dirt. So far to date, we have definitely gotten the better of that deal by letting Mesko walk. The word here in Pittsburgh from the fans and media are that they are not happy with Zoltan so far--although in their defense they aren't happy with much (and I am loving it more than words can describe).

It's great to see Gost finding his groove and consistency again, not that it was nearly the problem that some felt, but he looks very good so far this season in my opinion. Kickoff returns are few and far between, and he is hitting the long kicks with ease. 53 last week, and both 49 and 48 last night IIRC.
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Thank you for mentioning this Buchanty. It has been hard for me not to celebrate Ghost shutting up the critics here the past two weeks.

The guy missed ONE in a driving rain against the Jets,making him a lowly 5 for 6 at that time, and the calls were flying in here to cut him immediately. It is incredible how kneejerk some people are.

The other thing last night that was great to see was Ryan Allen's performance. I'm a huge Mesko fan, and his release still stings, but the Allen kid really did do a nice job last night. In particular, that beauty he hit while standing in the Pats endzone was fielded somewhere around the Falcon's 32. Nice bomb!

16k posts for you Shmessy. So how can the perpetual existence of the knee jerk brigade still astonish you? I would think the only thing you would find astonishing is if they didn't come out of the woodwork after every miss, or every drop, or every fumble, or every missed tackle.......every loss ;).
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Allen has proven himself so far in my book, Shmessy. Both his punting and holding have been very good, as Gost himself has mentioned his ability to properly dig out a couple of FG attempts that were snapped low and in the dirt. So far to date, we have definitely gotten the better of that deal by letting Mesko walk. The word here in Pittsburgh from the fans and media are that they are not happy with Zoltan so far--although in their defense they aren't happy with much (and I am loving it more than words can describe).

It's great to see Gost finding his groove and consistency again, not that it was nearly the problem that some felt, but he looks very good so far this season in my opinion. Kickoff returns are few and far between, and he is hitting the long kicks with ease. 53 last week, and both 49 and 48 last night IIRC.

You gotta give it up for BB, he's got balls. Lets a popular and effective punter go to save (what was it? 750k in cap savings?). It's one of those things that many here, and elsewhere, don't make the connection: these moves, the money here and there that can be saved, keeps cap hell at bay and is one of the reasons the Patriots remain competitive year in and year out.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
You gotta give it up for BB, he's got balls. Lets a popular and effective punter go to save (what was it? 750k in cap savings?). It's one of those things that many here, and elsewhere, don't make the connection: these moves, the money here and there that can be saved, keeps cap hell at bay and is one of the reasons the Patriots remain competitive year in and year out.

Absolutely.

I think that the media reported in several outlets that Allen's cap hit was approx 1/3 of Mesko's this year, and that the cap savings was about 900k--almost a million.

There's also the fact that Mesko was a free agent at the end of the year IIRC, so I think the move was made but for the present and the future.
 

Ozymandias

In the Starting Line-Up
* From my fresh eyes (from the end zone), the person on defense that appeared to the the best person on the field was McCourtney. I have read about how others are faster, or more talented, etc. Just from my eyes, he seemed to be flying around (he looked so much faster than I have heard on this board) and always knowing where he was going. Hard to describe, but in person he was the most impressive defensive person in my eyes.
Other than the Seahawks' Earl Thomas III, Devin is probably the safety with the most range in the entire NFL. He covers a ton ground in a hurry and that's why you're seeing very few big plays against them in the back-end. QBs rarely challenge in his areas, knowing that he covers like a corner, hits like a safety, and catches like a receiver. He's the total package as a ballhawking cover safety.
 

zydecochris

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Thanks Joker, I have added a game at Foxborough to my bucket list. :D

I don't think I did a good job of communicating just how impressive and "in command" Brady looked. It has occurred to me that perhaps he is making a special point of his body language for the rookie receivers, I don't know, but he had that certain "it" of utter control and confidence sometimes seen from the very powerful, e.g. governors, etc. It was just hard to take your eyes off him.

The other thing was that he seemed to be a step ahead of everyone else on the field. I've heard of sports figures with a certain sports "genius", where they see everything a heartbeat before everyone else (e.g., Bird and perhaps Nash at one point in basketball). Brady seems to me to be in that category. As with all NSF players, he is obviously a great athlete (particularly his hand eye coordination), but nevertheless I think that 95% of his success comes from between the ears, he looked like a football computer out there.

First, seeing Tom Brady at work in person is soooo much different than on TV. Admittedly this was a good game for him, but I think that many Patsfan.com posters (who talk about all of his misses, etc.) have just lost the appreciation. In person, his passing (in the context of the pass rush, etc.) is simply unbelievable, it was really hard for me to believe what I was seeing (it looks so much easier on TV). Watching him in person is an experience I will never forget. ....Along those lines, I've heard criticisms of his body language. Even from my seat far away, there was just something about his command and charisma. On the field at least, I don't think I have ever seen such command. Just a natural leader.

we post preseason camp reports here that state the exact same view...and the next minute, some clown who watches games on his Ipod writes a thread about how Brady is losing it, his arm is weak and he can't throw downfield anymore....plus he should shut up, never show any emotion and why isn't he like Pay-Me-Tons?...*sob...snifff...whimper*...it is what it is as some famous Pats coach says from time to time. Thanks for the post, Patriot brother-in-arms...and make it up HERE for a game when you can.
 

zydecochris

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I agree, his range was amazing. It was hard for me to see how he could cover so much ground so quickly. I had endzone seats, and from the back I could see how he would play center field, see something, and then swope across the entire field and clobber the receiver. :D

...As an aside, he must be in fabulous shape, he seemed to be doing way more running than anyone else on the field.

Other than the Seahawks' Earl Thomas III, Devin is probably the safety with the most range in the entire NFL. He covers a ton ground in a hurry and that's why you're seeing very few big plays against them in the back-end. QBs rarely challenge in his areas, knowing that he covers like a corner, hits like a safety, and catches like a receiver. He's the total package as a ballhawking cover safety.
 

NYCPatsFan

In the Starting Line-Up
You gotta give it up for BB, he's got balls. Lets a popular and effective punter go to save (what was it? 750k in cap savings?)....

Fully agree that BB has enough balls ;) but w.r.t that lengendary punter - did you consider that he did NOT want to sign with the Pats/BB after being tagged the previous year(s)?
 

TruthSeeker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Thought the move towards the end of the game of double teaming Tony Gonzalez was brilliant, to not allow him to get off of the line of scrimmage we brilliant.. Jamie Collins and another player were involved in that....

Polian is gonna hear about this though, and can see another rule change coming..

I haven't seen any discussion yet about this on the board so I thought I'd post a comment.

As I understand it, the rule is that each defender is allowed to hit a receiver once in the 5-yard zone after the snap. Now I can't recall the last time (if ever) I've seen a flag for continual blocking but that's the rule.

Clearly what the Patriots were doing to Gonzalez takes this lack of emphasis on calling the one block per defender rule rule to new heights. I was just praying that the refs wouldn't take that opportunity to reconsider what they'd throw a flag for.

The Patriots got away with it on Sunday; I'm not sure that the refs will allow such obvious rule breaking in the future.
 

kennyb

In the Starting Line-Up
I haven't seen any discussion yet about this on the board so I thought I'd post a comment.

As I understand it, the rule is that each defender is allowed to hit a receiver once in the 5-yard zone after the snap. Now I can't recall the last time (if ever) I've seen a flag for continual blocking but that's the rule.

Clearly what the Patriots were doing to Gonzalez takes this lack of emphasis on calling the one block per defender rule rule to new heights. I was just praying that the refs wouldn't take that opportunity to reconsider what they'd throw a flag for.

The Patriots got away with it on Sunday; I'm not sure that the refs will allow such obvious rule breaking in the future.

Each defender is allowed to hit a receiver...but does that mean ONLY one defender per receiver?
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I agree, his range was amazing. It was hard for me to see how he could cover so much ground so quickly. I had endzone seats, and from the back I could see how he would play center field, see something, and then swope across the entire field and clobber the receiver. :D

...As an aside, he must be in fabulous shape, he seemed to be doing way more running than anyone else on the field.

I am insanely impressed at the patience and hard work that it must take Brady throughout the week, both in practice and in film study to develop a rapport with these receivers.

I actually had him on my "up" list after last week's Tampa Bay game for being able to put a lousy NYJ game aside, and to come back and do so well with such limited (at this point in time) talent and knowledge of the system.

The fact that he progressed with them even more last week is just another example of his incredible leadership.

Anyone who is down on him for missing some throws etc is not taking the entire picture into play, at least in my opinion. That is now 2 solid games in a row where they have made some very nice progress, and it seems to go unnoticed by many.
 

Fencer

Pro Bowl Player
Absolutely.

I think that the media reported in several outlets that Allen's cap hit was approx 1/3 of Mesko's this year, and that the cap savings was about 900k--almost a million.

There's also the fact that Mesko was a free agent at the end of the year IIRC, so I think the move was made but for the present and the future.

I think the latter is more important, because it amounts to much more total savings.
 

ausbacker

TB12
PatsFans.com Supporter
I think the latter is more important, because it amounts to much more total savings.
After a pretty shaky start Allen has settled into the job (in retrospect it looked like a case of rookie nerves and little more). It's another one of those why bother questioning Bill moves now. I really should learn...
 

kurtinelson

In the Starting Line-Up
Each defender is allowed to hit a receiver...but does that mean ONLY one defender per receiver?

Doesn't the fact that gunners in punt formation (who I assume are also eligible receivers) are routinely double teamed disprove this?

Also what about a TE lined up next to the tackle. Is only 1 defensive player allowed to touch him within 5 yards? I think not.
 

TruthSeeker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Doesn't the fact that gunners in punt formation (who I assume are also eligible receivers) are routinely double teamed disprove this?

Also what about a TE lined up next to the tackle. Is only 1 defensive player allowed to touch him within 5 yards? I think not.

I hunted around and found this

In 1974, in response to the growing emphasis on bump-and-run coverage, a rule was installed stating that a pass receiver could only be chucked once by a defender after he had proceeded to a point 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Any number of bumps was permissible in the 3-yard zone, and a receiver could be bumped by more than one defender beyond the 3-yard zone -- but no more than once per defender. In 1977, a defender could contact an eligible receiver either in the 3-yard zone or once beyond the zone, but not both. This did not solve the problem of a receiver being bumped by multiple defenders as he tried to work his way downfield. In 1978, a defender could establish and maintain contact with an eligible receiver only within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. But beyond the 5-yard zone, no contact -- other than incidental -- by any defender was permitted. Pass-blocking rules changed so that blockers could extend their arms and open their hands in keeping a pass-rusher away from the quarterback.

So my worries were for naught.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top