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2021 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: at Jets
Pick Results: NE: 98.3% at NYJ: 1.7%

Sun
Sep 19th

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Sfpat

In the Starting Line-Up
This is more of the same, bargain bin hunting for re-threads. Last year it was Byrd and Lee. Who will it be this year? Thuney is gone. Maybe even Andrews. We now have to go get replacement caliber OL or pay them market value to stay (not happening).

One of the things that allowed the Patriots to continue their outstanding run for so long was having an elite QB willing to play for below market contracts and inspire other players to take discounts to continue playing for rings. Those days are gone. No player is going to take a discount for what? The greatest is gone. The prospects of going to a SB are not high (even if we go get Mariota, lol). The intangibles and leadership that TFB brought is gone forever.

I expect it'll be 5 years before we sniff another SB. I hope I'm wrong. It is what it is.
Pats returning to the SB within 5 years will prove BB's genius. Rare is the team that can make the SB that frequently. It took KC 50 years to get back
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
PatsFans.com Supporter
I must have missed the memo where Brady decided that a one year deal was an option without pushing another 30-40m down the line to a QB that couldn't get it done last year with pretty much the same personnel on offense. Brady would have had an > 30M price tag APY if you add up the millions of signing bonus that were still open, far away from your imaginary 25M.

Your comparison stinks and doesn't hold up. Also Gilmore didn't get any raise but an advance on this year's salary.

I can't believe people still don't get that the entire situation was centered around one thing: risk mitigation.

You're honestly making a big deal about an extra $5M on Brady's 2020 cap hit? Patrick Mahomes just signed a $503M contract; Aaron Rodgers signed a $134M extension in 2018. We are really talking about an impossible burden of fitting in $5M extra? And $30M overall for an NFL quarterback? Did the team not pay Joe Thuney and Devin McCourty $29M in 2020? This is high risk?

How much does there's a disctinct possibility we will never obtain another championship-caliber quarterback before Bill Belichick retires weigh on the risk mitigation scale, with the other side being: we might have to eat a cap hit at some point down the road during our rebuilding process when Brady is finished???

No risk it, no biscuit.

This wasn't based on the salary cap; it was based on (a) thinking he's probably done, and (b) believing in The Patriot Way over any indivdual player.

I don't see why you can't just acknolwedge that the Patriots have (a) been great for 20 years at keeping Brady happy and building championship teams around him, and (b) undervalued him, or overvalued Bill, or whatever you want to call it, in 2020. I'll take that tradeoff every time. But we're talking about what happened last year now.
 

scout

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
You're honestly making a big deal about an extra $5M on Brady's 2020 cap hit? Patrick Mahomes just signed a $503M contract; Aaron Rodgers signed a $134M extension in 2018. We are really talking about an impossible burden of fitting in $5M extra? And $30M overall for an NFL quarterback? Did the team not pay Joe Thuney and Devin McCourty $29M in 2020? This is high risk?

How much does there's a disctinct possibility we will never obtain another championship-caliber quarterback before Bill Belichick retires weigh on the risk mitigation scale, with the other side being: we might have to eat a cap hit at some point down the road during our rebuilding process when Brady is finished???

No risk it, no biscuit.

This wasn't based on the salary cap; it was based on (a) thinking he's probably done, and (b) believing in The Patriot Way over any indivdual player.

I don't see why you can't just acknolwedge that the Patriots have (a) been great for 20 years at keeping Brady happy and building championship teams around him, and (b) undervalued him, or overvalued Bill, or whatever you want to call it, in 2020. I'll take that tradeoff every time. But we're talking about what happened last year now.
Ok, let's say the Patriot's signed Brady for the extra $5M. Brady had great offensive weapons in Tampa that he would not have had here. Correct?
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
PatsFans.com Supporter
Ok, let's say the Patriot's signed Brady for the extra $5M. Brady had great offensive weapons in Tampa that he would not have had here. Correct?

You're right that Brady would be unlikely to have the same results...but the Patriots are supposed to do what's best for the Patriots. It's not like they sign other players (McCourty, Slater, Thuney) upon consideration of how much that player will put up better stats with them.

Brady would have made the Patriots much better. Absolutely. Sure, the receivers aren't good, but he would have bumped up the offense at least one level if not two. And $30M spent on Brady would have absolutely given them a better team than $30 on Thuney/McCourty. Would they have won the Super Bowl? Probably not. Did the question: will we win the Super Bowl factor into any other free agent decisions? No.

If they really said "Hey, you know what? This isnt' fair to Tom. We are rebuilding." then that would have been one thing. But they didn't. Because they weren't. That's just revisionism. Same with salary cap excuse. They're in it for themselves as they should be. The Patriots moved on because they felt they were better off without him.
 

Thelonious

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Bill decided it was time to move on from Tom., He was wrong, obviously and damagingly wrong. He then burdened us with Cam and stayed with him well beyond the point where it was obvious Cam is now a useless stumblebum. Bill is a third-rate GM when it comes to drafting skill position players. There is absolutely no denying this on a factual basis.

This is not a "media feeding frenzy": it is a justified reaction to a GM's demonstrated incompetence. Whether he has always been a lousy GM is irrelevant. That's what he is now. I have no beef with Bill the Coach, but if it's a coach/GM package deal, no thanks. The Krafts should fire the GM, so we can move on.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
If they really said "Hey, you know what? This isnt' fair to Tom. We are rebuilding." then that would have been one thing. But they didn't. Because they weren't. That's just revisionism. Same with salary cap excuse. They're in it for themselves as they should be. The Patriots moved on because they felt they were better off without him.
As of June 1 Jarrett Stidham was the Patriots starting QB. If they really thought they were better with Stidham than Brady then all I have to say is yikes.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Bill decided it was time to move on from Tom., He was wrong, obviously and damagingly wrong. He then burdened us with Cam and stayed with him well beyond the point where it was obvious Cam is now a useless stumblebum. Bill is a third-rate GM when it comes to drafting skill position players. There is absolutely no denying this on a factual basis.

This is not a "media feeding frenzy": it is a justified reaction to a GM's demonstrated incompetence. Whether he has always been a lousy GM is irrelevant. That's what he is now. I have no beef with Bill the Coach, but if it's a coach/GM package deal, no thanks. The Krafts should fire the GM, so we can move on.

Hearing voices in your head telling you this doesn't make you a football analyst or quite frankly an analyst on anything worth analyzing.

Completely lacking the requisite mental and analytical tools required means listening to posters not actually posting.
 

Thelonious

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Hearing voices in your head telling you this doesn't make you a football analyst or quite frankly an analyst on anything worth analyzing.

Completely lacking the requisite mental and analytical tools required means listening to posters not actually posting.
Well. well. A fanboy with a thesaurus.

Maybe just take that well-fingered pic of Bill into the boys' room for a while: take the edge off.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
Bill decided it was time to move on from Tom., He was wrong, obviously and damagingly wrong. He then burdened us with Cam and stayed with him well beyond the point where it was obvious Cam is now a useless stumblebum. Bill is a third-rate GM when it comes to drafting skill position players. There is absolutely no denying this on a factual basis.

This is not a "media feeding frenzy": it is a justified reaction to a GM's demonstrated incompetence. Whether he has always been a lousy GM is irrelevant. That's what he is now. I have no beef with Bill the Coach, but if it's a coach/GM package deal, no thanks. The Krafts should fire the GM, so we can move on.

Just because Brady won with an absolutely loaded roster in an ideal situation doesn't mean that Belichick was "obviously and damagingly wrong" to move on from Brady. It is highly unlikely that Brady would have gone very far with the 2020 Patriots' roster. Would they have been better than 9-7? Almost certainly. Might have even made the playoffs. But this team was going nowhere. It's time for a rebuild.

Belichick letting Brady go to another team doesn't mean that Belichick didn't think Brady had become a subpar player or anything. He just realized it was time to rebuild and rebuilding with a 43-44 year old Brady at $25+ million, given what he saw at the end of 2019, made no sense.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Well. well. A fanboy with a thesaurus.

Maybe just take that well-fingered pic of Bill into the boys' room for a while: take the edge off.

There is the Belichick criticism mega thread. That's where all the other dummies are hanging out.

Bet it will feel like family to you.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Just because Brady won with an absolutely loaded roster in an ideal situation doesn't mean that Belichick was "obviously and damagingly wrong" to move on from Brady. It is highly unlikely that Brady would have gone very far with the 2020 Patriots' roster. Would they have been better than 9-7? Almost certainly. Might have even made the playoffs. But this team was going nowhere. It's time for a rebuild.

Belichick letting Brady go to another team doesn't mean that Belichick didn't think Brady had become a subpar player or anything. He just realized it was time to rebuild and rebuilding with a 43-44 year old Brady at $25+ million, given what he saw at the end of 2019, made no sense.

I can't agree that BB was looking at a rebuild. I think he erred in his assessment of Brady. He thought Brady was losing it.

If anything, Belichick erred also in his estimation of how much Brady or Scarnecchia helped with the OL in previous years. BB thought you could throw practically anyone out there and you could coach them up. Last year taught us that Korey Cunningham, Marshall Newhouse and Ted Karras were not as capable as those they were replacing. For many years, Dante and Brady fooled us into thinking you can get by with Mike Compton, Russ Hochstein, Donald Thomas, Trent Brown, etc.

My thought is that with an in-tact OL Brady and the team would have been better than they were the prior year.

Brady's salary was largely irrelevant in all this because we really gained nothing by not having him here. It's not like we used up the cap space with new FAs due to his absence (I'm not criticizing BB for that, BTW).
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Just because Brady won with an absolutely loaded roster in an ideal situation doesn't mean that Belichick was "obviously and damagingly wrong" to move on from Brady. It is highly unlikely that Brady would have gone very far with the 2020 Patriots' roster. Would they have been better than 9-7? Almost certainly. Might have even made the playoffs. But this team was going nowhere. It's time for a rebuild.

Belichick letting Brady go to another team doesn't mean that Belichick didn't think Brady had become a subpar player or anything. He just realized it was time to rebuild and rebuilding with a 43-44 year old Brady at $25+ million, given what he saw at the end of 2019, made no sense.

Excellent analysis and straight to the point at hand. Great way to sum it up.

The problem is many people don't understand what are the requirements for success and how to achieve it nor do they understand the dynamics associated franchise direction vs individual direction.

In the first year of WW2, the Germans were in Paris and bombing London but the book wasn't written.

Of course, many of these goofballs would surrender once the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
Excellent analysis and straight to the point at hand. Great way to sum it up.

The problem is many people don't understand what are the requirements for success and how to achieve it nor do they understand the dynamics associated franchise direction vs individual direction.

In the first year of WW2, the Germans were in Paris and bombing London but the book wasn't written.

Of course, many of these goofballs would surrender once the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!
If the Germans bombed Pearl harbor, we would have been in very, very bad shape.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I can't agree that BB was looking at a rebuild. I think he erred in his assessment of Brady. He thought Brady was losing it.

If anything, Belichick erred also in his estimation of how much Brady or Scarnecchia helped with the OL in previous years. BB thought you could throw practically anyone out there and you could coach them up. Last year taught us that Korey Cunningham, Marshall Newhouse and Ted Karras were not as capable as those they were replacing. For many years, Dante and Brady fooled us into thinking you can get by with Mike Compton, Russ Hochstein, Donald Thomas, Trent Brown, etc.

My thought is that with an in-tact OL Brady and the team would have been better than they were the prior year.

Brady's salary was largely irrelevant in all this because we really gained nothing by not having him here. It's not like we used up the cap space with new FAs due to his absence (I'm not criticizing BB for that, BTW).

He's re-building and going in a different direction.

Don't fool yourself into thinking beyond that.

Also, once the locker room turned into Desperate Housewives; it's impossible to un-ring the bell
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
Excellent analysis and straight to the point at hand. Great way to sum it up.

The problem is many people don't understand what are the requirements for success and how to achieve it nor do they understand the dynamics associated franchise direction vs individual direction.

In the first year of WW2, the Germans were in Paris and bombing London but the book wasn't written.

Of course, many of these goofballs would surrender once the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!
1613425387052.jpeg
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
I can't agree that BB was looking at a rebuild. I think he erred in his assessment of Brady. He thought Brady was losing it.

If anything, Belichick erred also in his estimation of how much Brady or Scarnecchia helped with the OL in previous years. BB thought you could throw practically anyone out there and you could coach them up. Last year taught us that Korey Cunningham, Marshall Newhouse and Ted Karras were not as capable as those they were replacing. For many years, Dante and Brady fooled us into thinking you can get by with Mike Compton, Russ Hochstein, Donald Thomas, Trent Brown, etc.

My thought is that with an in-tact OL Brady and the team would have been better than they were the prior year.

Brady's salary was largely irrelevant in all this because we really gained nothing by not having him here. It's not like we used up the cap space with new FAs due to his absence (I'm not criticizing BB for that, BTW).

How do you know that Belichick "thought Brady was losing it"? What evidence is there of that?

The OL, by the way, was intact the second half of last year. It's one reason why the running game got rolling. The defense slipped from their otherworldly play from the first half of the season, but the D wasn't the main problem in the divisional game against Tennessee (the D only gave up 14 points in that game).
 

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