Idle Thoughts - Observations

[luuked]

How can you say Bill reset the cap situation, that has the team in a strong position to compete, but then say we don't need an elite QB that'll wreck the salary cap; so we'll rely on "coaching" to make us competitive? WTF.

If Bill reset the cap situation why would you be concerned with wrecking the salary cap? The price for this reset was losing the GOAT QB! Relying on coaching to make a mediocre QB competitive didn't work with Cam or Stidham, so what makes you think it'll work now?

Teams are spending multiple #1 picks for a #12-15 QB to have a chance to win, but you don't think an elite QB is needed?

This team is far from being in a strong position having to find talent at WR, TE, DL, LB, and yes QB. There's 26 free agents, though some walk, there's about 6 or 7 key guys needed to stop the drain of talent even further.

No I don't think an elite QB is needed to be competitive. The Titans are more than competitive with Tannehill. What you need is someone who can run your script and make minimal mistakes like we have seen against us by lesser QBs like Flacco, Eli or Foles. This is also why I am entirely not interested in QBs that tend to go off script like Wentz or Fitzpatrick. I'd rather have a above average-to-good consistent QB than someone who is varying between elite and meltdown.

The price of going all in on a market rate QB and getting it wrong is much more problematic for the window of the next 2-3 years than you are making it out to be. That is why Mariota (i.e. limited financial risk) is such an enticing option if Jimmy G (i.e. familiarity reduces risk he won't work out) won't become available.

 

[luuked]

At some point you’d think people would just accept their revisionist explanations make zero sense, but that would require acknowledging they don’t follow an actual god and therefore their own understanding of the game isn’t perfect either. Heck, I’ve said numerous times I got it wrong last year thinking Brady might be done physically, and I’ve been wrong many times. But we’re dealing with a cult-ish group who have never been able to concede a point if it challenges their unchallengeable big brains.

I must have missed the memo where Brady decided that a one year deal was an option without pushing another 30-40m down the line to a QB that couldn't get it done last year with pretty much the same personnel on offense. Brady would have had an > 30M price tag APY if you add up the millions of signing bonus that were still open, far away from your imaginary 25M.

Your comparison stinks and doesn't hold up. Also Gilmore didn't get any raise but an advance on this year's salary.

I can't believe people still don't get that the entire situation was centered around one thing: risk mitigation.

 

[NormZauchin]

Hey, I liked MacPherson!

MacPherson was certainly more approachable than Belichick, but I can't help thinking that his hiring was somehow related to his being a New Englander - born in Maine, played football at Springfield College, and coached winning UMass teams during the 70s. It was bit like the first editions of the Pats which stayed close to home when picking talent. MacPherson's overall record at Syracuse was good, but not great, 66 wins, 44 losses, and 4 ties. He did have outstanding seasons in 1987 and 1988 followed by good seasons in 1989 and 1990. But he was hardly the hottest coaching prospect from the college ranks, no Nick Saban or Urban Meyer - or Chuck Fairbanks.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

a

No I don't think an elite QB is needed to be competitive. The Titans are more than competitive with Tannehill. What you need is someone who can run your script and make minimal mistakes like we have seen against us by lesser QBs like Flacco, Eli or Foles. This is also why I am entirely not interested in QBs that tend to go off script like Wentz or Fitzpatrick. I'd rather have a above average-to-good consistent QB than someone who is varying between elite and meltdown.

The price of going all in on a market rate QB and getting it wrong is much more problematic for the window of the next 2-3 years than you are making it out to be. That is why Mariota (i.e. limited financial risk) is such an enticing option if Jimmy G (i.e. familiarity reduces risk he won't work out) won't become available.

Those are three outlier quarterbacks (SB MVPs who weren’t great) who were far from consistent. Your perception of that is shaped by a few games/postseasons where they got hot, had loaded supporting casts and going off of a couple games against the Patriots. In reality, Eli and Flacco were just as boom-or-bust as anyone else. Ravens and Giants fans would say they were far from consistent; if Foles were able to be anything close to consistent at that level, he’d be a starter.

Flacco and Eli both got monster contracts, too. So did Tannehill.

 

[venecol]

No I don't think an elite QB is needed to be competitive. The Titans are more than competitive with Tannehill. What you need is someone who can run your script and make minimal mistakes like we have seen against us by lesser QBs like Flacco, Eli or Foles. This is also why I am entirely not interested in QBs that tend to go off script like Wentz or Fitzpatrick. I'd rather have a above average-to-good consistent QB than someone who is varying between elite and meltdown.

The price of going all in on a market rate QB and getting it wrong is much more problematic for the window of the next 2-3 years than you are making it out to be. That is why Mariota (i.e. limited financial risk) is such an enticing option if Jimmy G (i.e. familiarity reduces risk he won't work out) won't become available.

So you think that BB should get Mariota at QB and that would make the team competitive. Then use what's left of the cap to get talent at WR, TE, DL, & LBs, after we re-sign some or our own free agents or no?

Wow, you have a lot more faith in the immediate future than I have. Mariota? Aloha dude.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You think a team will give up a 2 for Jackson? Can't say I see that.

A GM with a deficiency at corner should be fired if they didn't trade their 2nd for Jackson a PROVEN quality NFL starter.

 

[venecol]

This is more of the same, bargain bin hunting for re-threads. Last year it was Byrd and Lee. Who will it be this year? Thuney is gone. Maybe even Andrews. We now have to go get replacement caliber OL or pay them market value to stay (not happening).

One of the things that allowed the Patriots to continue their outstanding run for so long was having an elite QB willing to play for below market contracts and inspire other players to take discounts to continue playing for rings. Those days are gone. No player is going to take a discount for what? The greatest is gone. The prospects of going to a SB are not high (even if we go get Mariota, lol). The intangibles and leadership that TFB brought is gone forever.

I expect it'll be 5 years before we sniff another SB. I hope I'm wrong. It is what it is.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

A couple of thoughts

1. I can understand the media jumping on the "Let's get Bill" bandwagon. The rapacious media in this town had been forced to kowtow to Bill for close to TWO decades, and this was FINALLY their chance to dig their teeth into a guy who has literally been untouchable for so damned long. Think about it. How good must it feel for those guys after having to say nice things about a major sports figure all this time Let us not forget that the ONE thing that the media loves more than building someone up.....is tearing that same person DOWN.

2. What I don't understand is the seeming vitriol that is coming from what one would think would be a smarter fan base as represented here on this site. Bill's leadership and vision has given we fans 20 years of, not just good results, but EXCELLENT results. No not just excellent results but UNPRECEDENTED results in the face of a system that essentially rewards failure and penalizes success. Are we THAT spoiled that we can forget the last 20 years after just one 7-9 season.

3. And about the pseudo-drama (in my opinion) of Tom leaving. Lets look at the facts. As Bill watched Tom reach his late 30's, he had a succession plan. a very good one. He found a guy whom he could develop that fit his system. UNFORTUNATELY, no one could have foreseen that Tom would NOT go quietly into that goodnight like 100% of the QB's that had proceeded him. So when JG's contract was about to expire, Tom was in the process of leading the Pats to 4 Superbowls in 5 years. It was a simple decision. Bill let go of the 2nd best QB on the team.

Now we come to the end of the 2019 season. A season where Tom largely struggled over the last half of the year. A year that found him playing with a bad elbow among other injuries. I find it interesting that Bill is now being criticized for not offering his ailing 42 year old QB a multi-year contract. Especially in a year which found the Pats as cap strapped as they have been for the last 2 decades.

For Brady the decision was easy. Go live in the warmth of Florida. Go play with the most offensive talent he'd ever played with (by far) Go keep your wife happy and by a big yacht.....AND get that multi year contract from a team desperate for any success.

I have never felt any betrayal from Tom and his decision. It was the right one for him, even if it didn't lead to a superbowl. I was sad to see him go, but I understood and was happy to see his success. And NO, Tom's success is NOT an indictment of Bill's failure. It just is what it is.

4. So now we come to the REAL issue is how we move forward this offseason. We will have relatively a lot of cap space. We have a strong OL, a strong RB group, and an even stronger secondary, as well as an excellent kicking game. We are weak at TE and WR. We are decent but not strong on the DL and LB. We will have JUST our 3rd pick above the 20's since Richard Seymour was Bill's first 1st round selection in 2001.

We will also (as it's been reported) get back all of the opt outs from last year, most importantly, Dante Hightower to immediately improve a depleted LB group. So the final issue will be to determine just WHO will end up being the QB of the team. Given we have narrowed the list down to about twenty possibilities (lol) between FA's and draft picks, we still have no real idea who will fill the most important position on the offensive side of the ball. But it seems to me that between FA and the draft we SHOULD vastly improve at least 3 of the 4 major weaknesses given above. And assuming we add even a mediocre QB, I believe we should be a potential playoff contender for the coming year Not that I think we could become a superbowl contender next year, but it will be interesting to see how the season progresses given that I can confidently predict that most of the prognosticators will have the Pats finishing last in the AFCE (something that will make Rodney Harrison's inner underdog VERY happy.

BTW- I would remind people that prior to the 2001 season, the Pats were selected by ProFootball Weekly to be the team LEAST likely to get to a superbowl in the next 5 years

Agreed on all counts.

 

[BTTA]

A GM with a deficiency at corner should be fired if they didn't trade their 2nd for Jackson a PROVEN quality NFL starter.

Agree. Unless you are picking a CB in the top 10, Jackson is a far better risk than drafting and coaching up a rookie, because of the high % of draft picks that have mediocre careers.

 

[Twentytothree]

Literally nobody on this board is saying it's all Brady

Yeah, it's not like we have a 500 post Belichik criticism mega-thread or something

 

[luuked]

So you think that BB should get Mariota at QB and that would make the team competitive. Then use what's left of the cap to get talent at WR, TE, DL, & LBs, after we re-sign some or our own free agents or no?

Wow, you have a lot more faith in the immediate future than I have. Mariota? Aloha dude.

I am just not buying in this narrative that elite QBs is what you absolutely need to be competitive. They give you a bigger margin for error -- which is very nice to have -- but that's about it. And to make sure we understand each other I am talking about elite vs. good/above-average QBs and not elite vs. trash. You gotta have a functional offense either way, without there is no comparison.

The vaunted KC offense got silenced by run of the mill 2 safety split coverages in the SB and their elite QB couldn't do jack **** to compensate because Reid and Bienema for whatever reason didn't want to go dink & dunk. A functional offense doesn't live or die with an elite passer but with the sum of its parts working well together.

I think you have a chance of getting good performances out of Mariota under McDaniels/BB. And if not they can walk away in a year without a gigantic dead money hit and try again. It is all about risk mitigation and not looking for someone with the highest upside.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I love your write ups but I do disagree with your take on why Brady’s gone.

It wasn’t just 2020 when Bill didn’t offer him the 2 year deal, it was 2018 and 2019 as well. For 2 years Brady played on 1 year incentive deals. He wanted the Brees deal and Bill wouldn’t give it.

From the Pats point I don’t see why they wouldn’t. They didn’t have a succession plan anyways. So what would be the difference if Brady slipped in his 2nd year of the deal? It would still be much better then what we saw from Cam this year. That’s why it makes no sense at all, you’re worried Brady slips but then the alternative is one of the worst offences we’ve ever seen? Brady should have retired a Patriot and that’s on Bill, and that’s something he deserves to take heat on.

BB had a succession plan. He got traded away in 2017 because Brady insisted on it. How exactly he's suppose to have a plan with Brady still on the team is confusing since there already was one that can't happen because Brady is still on the team?

What people need to remember that the "year early vs year late" concept is all about the most important commodity everyone has- TIME.

Giving away multi-year deals runs the risk of losing years to build the next decade of domination.

Besides, for all the accolades in 2020, there is zero evidence that Brady could have carried this team to be in contention. This year was a function of great Tampa defense and historic opponent meltdowns than superior play.

 

[venecol]

BB had a succession plan. He got traded away in 2017 because Brady insisted on it. How exactly he's suppose to have a plan with Brady still on the team is confusing since there already was one that can't happen because Brady is still on the team?

What people need to remember that the "year early vs year late" concept is all about the most important commodity everyone has- TIME.

Giving away multi-year deals runs the risk of losing years to build the next decade of domination.

Besides, for all the accolades in 2020, there is zero evidence that Brady could have carried this team to be in contention. This year was a function of great Tampa defense and historic opponent meltdowns than superior play.

BB could've and should've reloaded at QB upon trading JG if he foresaw the end of Brady's career at NE. He didn't. He traded away Brissett. He traded down a 1st. He didn't pick a QB in the draft until the 4th round. Poor planning, period.

You obviously didn't watch all the Bucs games if you think the year was only because of great D and historic opponent meltdowns. Brady was clutch as always and did things in his 1st year for Tampa that had never been done in the entire history of that franchise.

 

[jimnance]

This is more of the same, bargain bin hunting for re-threads. Last year it was Byrd and Lee. Who will it be this year? Thuney is gone. Maybe even Andrews. We now have to go get replacement caliber OL or pay them market value to stay (not happening).

One of the things that allowed the Patriots to continue their outstanding run for so long was having an elite QB willing to play for below market contracts and inspire other players to take discounts to continue playing for rings. Those days are gone. No player is going to take a discount for what? The greatest is gone. The prospects of going to a SB are not high (even if we go get Mariota, lol). The intangibles and leadership that TFB brought is gone forever.

I expect it'll be 5 years before we sniff another SB. I hope I'm wrong. It is what it is.

Unfortunately, I agree with this. Theres enough overall talent, assuming they pick up a decent qb, to go 9-7 or 10-6 over the next few years. But even if they make the playoffs,itll be as a wild card. Not going far.

 

[jal]

BB had a succession plan. He got traded away in 2017 because Brady insisted on it. How exactly he's suppose to have a plan with Brady still on the team is confusing since there already was one that can't happen because Brady is still on the team?

What people need to remember that the "year early vs year late" concept is all about the most important commodity everyone has- TIME.

Giving away multi-year deals runs the risk of losing years to build the next decade of domination.

Besides, for all the accolades in 2020, there is zero evidence that Brady could have carried this team to be in contention. This year was a function of great Tampa defense and historic opponent meltdowns than superior play.

You are sounding more like the twenty years of Brady haters

 

[patsfanincleveland]

BB could've and should've reloaded at QB upon trading JG if he foresaw the end of Brady's career at NE. He didn't. He traded away Brissett. He traded down a 1st. He didn't pick a QB in the draft until the 4th round. Poor planning, period.

You obviously didn't watch all the Bucs games if you think the year was only because of great D and historic opponent meltdowns. Brady was clutch as always and did things in his 1st year for Tampa that had never been done in the entire history of that franchise.

Not really........but keep dreaming.

Yeah this is some intelligence- "He should have reloaded but had already loaded but had to unload because of the QB being there but still should have reloaded despite the guy being there that made him unload"

It hurts just thinking you believe you make sense.

Before posting again, you need to figure out why your logic circuits keeping shorting out.

Actually watch a game

Dude threw three picks in the second half of the NFCCG.

Only a team dumb enough to leave single coverage on the fastest guy 50 yards out with a few seconds remaining before half is dumb enough to not take advantage.

I'll save Super Bowl shanked punts, BAD roughing calls, bad interference calls, drive extending offsides, and really,really bad interference calls right before half for another day.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

You are sounding more like the twenty years of Brady haters

I don't hate Brady or Gronk....far from it.

I have two Brady jerseys and spent an absurd amount of money to buy a Gronk Fathead out of one of his old man's stores.

We won a Super Bowl in 2018 so I zero problem how it worked out.

On the other hand, I want to follow a football team not have everyday be another episode of Desperate Housewives. 2017/8/9 were not enjoyable from this fan's perspective.

Likewise, the idiotic idea that the replacement should have been on the roster when the original one was exiled is simply idiotic.

 

[venecol]

Not really........but keep dreaming.

Yeah this is some intelligence- "He should have reloaded but had already loaded but had to unload because of the QB being there but still should have reloaded despite the guy being there that made him unload"

It hurts just thinking you believe you make sense.

Before posting again, you need to figure out why your logic circuits keeping shorting out.

Actually watch a game

Dude threw three picks in the second half of the NFCCG.

Only a team dumb enough to leave single coverage on the fastest guy 50 yards out with a few seconds remaining before half is dumb enough to not take advantage.

I'll save Super Bowl shanked punts, BAD roughing calls, bad interference calls, drive extending offsides, and really,really bad interference calls right before half for another day.

Lmao, you didn't say anything.

Dude beat 3 SB MVP's (2 on the road as a Dog) in playoffs on way to 7th ring. 1st time in entire history of NFL. Dude had 80% completion + 3 TDs in one half, 1st time in entire history of SBs.

I'll give you a pass only because you live in Cleveland. That's gotta be rough enough.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

BB had bad luck on 2 fronts:

- Brady way outperformed what a 43 yr old should be doing. Among BB's responsibilities is to be risk manager, like an insurance actuary. It would not have been responsible to commit $75m for 3 years to a 41 year old QB. Plus BB wanted to set up the team for the next 10 years, not live on the edge of the cliff each year. When Brady was 39-40, everyone including all of us expected a new Patriots QB within a couple of years, with no controversy involved.

- the WR hunt has gone wrong at every turn, from Sanu to Harry to AB. If these weapons had worked out, then Brady might still be here. Him leaving was more about him looking at the weapons and concluding he can't succeed in his precious last few years.

 

[Boomer B]

BB had a succession plan. He got traded away in 2017 because Brady insisted on it. How exactly he's suppose to have a plan with Brady still on the team is confusing since there already was one that can't happen because Brady is still on the team?

What people need to remember that the "year early vs year late" concept is all about the most important commodity everyone has- TIME.

Giving away multi-year deals runs the risk of losing years to build the next decade of domination.

Besides, for all the accolades in 2020, there is zero evidence that Brady could have carried this team to be in contention. This year was a function of great Tampa defense and historic opponent meltdowns than superior play.