Idle Thoughts - Observations

[RobertWeathers]

A couple of thoughts

1. I can understand the media jumping on the "Let's get Bill" bandwagon. The rapacious media in this town had been forced to kowtow to Bill for close to TWO decades, and this was FINALLY their chance to dig their teeth into a guy who has literally been untouchable for so damned long. Think about it. How good must it feel for those guys after having to say nice things about a major sports figure all this time Let us not forget that the ONE thing that the media loves more than building someone up.....is tearing that same person DOWN.

2. What I don't understand is the seeming vitriol that is coming from what one would think would be a smarter fan base as represented here on this site. Bill's leadership and vision has given we fans 20 years of, not just good results, but EXCELLENT results. No not just excellent results but UNPRECEDENTED results in the face of a system that essentially rewards failure and penalizes success. Are we THAT spoiled that we can forget the last 20 years after just one 7-9 season.

3. And about the pseudo-drama (in my opinion) of Tom leaving. Lets look at the facts. As Bill watched Tom reach his late 30's, he had a succession plan. a very good one. He found a guy whom he could develop that fit his system. UNFORTUNATELY, no one could have foreseen that Tom would NOT go quietly into that goodnight like 100% of the QB's that had proceeded him. So when JG's contract was about to expire, Tom was in the process of leading the Pats to 4 Superbowls in 5 years. It was a simple decision. Bill let go of the 2nd best QB on the team.

Now we come to the end of the 2019 season. A season where Tom largely struggled over the last half of the year. A year that found him playing with a bad elbow among other injuries. I find it interesting that Bill is now being criticized for not offering his ailing 42 year old QB a multi-year contract. Especially in a year which found the Pats as cap strapped as they have been for the last 2 decades.

For Brady the decision was easy. Go live in the warmth of Florida. Go play with the most offensive talent he'd ever played with (by far) Go keep your wife happy and by a big yacht.....AND get that multi year contract from a team desperate for any success.

I have never felt any betrayal from Tom and his decision. It was the right one for him, even if it didn't lead to a superbowl. I was sad to see him go, but I understood and was happy to see his success. And NO, Tom's success is NOT an indictment of Bill's failure. It just is what it is.

4. So now we come to the REAL issue is how we move forward this offseason. We will have relatively a lot of cap space. We have a strong OL, a strong RB group, and an even stronger secondary, as well as an excellent kicking game. We are weak at TE and WR. We are decent but not strong on the DL and LB. We will have JUST our 3rd pick above the 20's since Richard Seymour was Bill's first 1st round selection in 2001.

We will also (as it's been reported) get back all of the opt outs from last year, most importantly, Dante Hightower to immediately improve a depleted LB group. So the final issue will be to determine just WHO will end up being the QB of the team. Given we have narrowed the list down to about twenty possibilities (lol) between FA's and draft picks, we still have no real idea who will fill the most important position on the offensive side of the ball. But it seems to me that between FA and the draft we SHOULD vastly improve at least 3 of the 4 major weaknesses given above. And assuming we add even a mediocre QB, I believe we should be a potential playoff contender for the coming year Not that I think we could become a superbowl contender next year, but it will be interesting to see how the season progresses given that I can confidently predict that most of the prognosticators will have the Pats finishing last in the AFCE (something that will make Rodney Harrison's inner underdog VERY happy.

BTW- I would remind people that prior to the 2001 season, the Pats were selected by ProFootball Weekly to be the team LEAST likely to get to a superbowl in the next 5 years

Truth

 

[Rob0729]

I still can't believe how fast some people on this board have rewritten history to make Belichick into some kind of mediocre coach who just road the tails of Brady year one and Brady was elite right away and carried the team to Super Bowl victories.

People forget already how this team was built on defense first and only asking the offense to be efficient and not make mistakes and win low scoring slugfests. People forget how if it wasn't for Belichick's and Crennel's defensive game plan, there would be no way the Pats would have won Super Bowl 36 and Brady would never had been in the position to have that final drive. People forget that the Pats had a historic defense in 2003 where they won a lot of games without the offense scoring a single TD. People forget that when he had hole at CB due to injuries in 2004, he plugged in Troy Brown and a host of other players to help keep the defense together to win a Super Bowl. Now it is all Brady.

Yes, Belichick as a GM has made a lot of mistakes throughout the last twenty years especially in drafting in recent years, but Belichick the coach has bailed Belichick the GM out of it.

 

[jal]

I fully believe both Tom and Bill are the respective GOAT player and coach. One’s success should NOT be an indictment of the other.

But it’s a fallacy to say Bill handled the Brady situation sensibly. After JG was shipped out, your choices are either (1) work on another succession plan or (2) go all in with Tom. Bill instead went with option (3), neither committing to Tom fully nor dedicating real resources to finding a credible successor.

I can’t understand why he would do this unless he was acting out of emotion (spite?) due to how the resolution to the JG situation was seemingly forced on him or he completely misunderstood the likelihood Tom would actually leave the team and therefore Bill overplayed his hand.

Regardless, it’s left a gaping hole at the most critical position that will make it hard to attract external talent until it’s filled. It also happens to be the hardest position to fill. So that’s why a lot of fans are legitimately angry at Bill for how this has played out. The Patriots may be out of true contention for a long time until we manage to land a superstar at QB (most likely via draft luck). That could be decades looking at other teams. It may never happen again.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

A couple of thoughts

1. I can understand the media jumping on the "Let's get Bill" bandwagon. The rapacious media in this town had been forced to kowtow to Bill for close to TWO decades, and this was FINALLY their chance to dig their teeth into a guy who has literally been untouchable for so damned long. Think about it. How good must it feel for those guys after having to say nice things about a major sports figure all this time Let us not forget that the ONE thing that the media loves more than building someone up.....is tearing that same person DOWN.

2. What I don't understand is the seeming vitriol that is coming from what one would think would be a smarter fan base as represented here on this site. Bill's leadership and vision has given we fans 20 years of, not just good results, but EXCELLENT results. No not just excellent results but UNPRECEDENTED results in the face of a system that essentially rewards failure and penalizes success. Are we THAT spoiled that we can forget the last 20 years after just one 7-9 season.

3. And about the pseudo-drama (in my opinion) of Tom leaving. Lets look at the facts. As Bill watched Tom reach his late 30's, he had a succession plan. a very good one. He found a guy whom he could develop that fit his system. UNFORTUNATELY, no one could have foreseen that Tom would NOT go quietly into that goodnight like 100% of the QB's that had proceeded him. So when JG's contract was about to expire, Tom was in the process of leading the Pats to 4 Superbowls in 5 years. It was a simple decision. Bill let go of the 2nd best QB on the team.

Now we come to the end of the 2019 season. A season where Tom largely struggled over the last half of the year. A year that found him playing with a bad elbow among other injuries. I find it interesting that Bill is now being criticized for not offering his ailing 42 year old QB a multi-year contract. Especially in a year which found the Pats as cap strapped as they have been for the last 2 decades.

For Brady the decision was easy. Go live in the warmth of Florida. Go play with the most offensive talent he'd ever played with (by far) Go keep your wife happy and by a big yacht.....AND get that multi year contract from a team desperate for any success.

I have never felt any betrayal from Tom and his decision. It was the right one for him, even if it didn't lead to a superbowl. I was sad to see him go, but I understood and was happy to see his success. And NO, Tom's success is NOT an indictment of Bill's failure. It just is what it is.

4. So now we come to the REAL issue is how we move forward this offseason. We will have relatively a lot of cap space. We have a strong OL, a strong RB group, and an even stronger secondary, as well as an excellent kicking game. We are weak at TE and WR. We are decent but not strong on the DL and LB. We will have JUST our 3rd pick above the 20's since Richard Seymour was Bill's first 1st round selection in 2001.

We will also (as it's been reported) get back all of the opt outs from last year, most importantly, Dante Hightower to immediately improve a depleted LB group. So the final issue will be to determine just WHO will end up being the QB of the team. Given we have narrowed the list down to about twenty possibilities (lol) between FA's and draft picks, we still have no real idea who will fill the most important position on the offensive side of the ball. But it seems to me that between FA and the draft we SHOULD vastly improve at least 3 of the 4 major weaknesses given above. And assuming we add even a mediocre QB, I believe we should be a potential playoff contender for the coming year Not that I think we could become a superbowl contender next year, but it will be interesting to see how the season progresses given that I can confidently predict that most of the prognosticators will have the Pats finishing last in the AFCE (something that will make Rodney Harrison's inner underdog VERY happy.

BTW- I would remind people that prior to the 2001 season, the Pats were selected by ProFootball Weekly to be the team LEAST likely to get to a superbowl in the next 5 years

Ian

It's time to take the Brady fanboi's to the woodshed and have then read ken's post....do a book report and present before any more posting.

Anyone who doesn't 100% understand and agree with this post needs their posting credentials removed.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Now it is all Brady.

Literally nobody on this board is saying it's all Brady

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Been saying it for a while, the idea that this is a smart fanbase is silly. 20 years of success breeds entitlement and arrogance. While the Bills celebrate their players after they come up short against the Chiefs our "fans" were booing the team at half time of games where we were ahead. Whenever someone starts an argument with "six SBs are nice but could have had more" you know exactly what kind of bozo you are talking to.

The bold is so true. The amazing part is that they somehow convince themselves they are right. Amazing how the human brain works.

 

[Chevy]

There's 20 years of data showing, beyond a doubt, that the BB way works. Find versatile players that will buy in, make sure your 2nd tier is better than everyone else's, patience on both offense and defense, no one player is above the team.

What we're seeing today is the result of BB going a bit AWAY from this. Cap issues, 1st tier players that shouldn't be 2nd (or even 3rd) tier, missing depth where it used to be a given. Add to that the Covid opt-outs and you follow up a disappointing 1-and-done playoff run with a mediocre 7-9 season. Hell, our starting QB was picked up on the I95 off-ramp for a season pass to the museum at 1 Patriot Way and a book of Duncan's coupons.

Now the cap issue is gone, a solid core is still there to build on, and a lot of talent is going to floating around FA - in a year when the cap (and I would assume salaries) are going to drop. BB will revisit his 2000 and 2002 notes, and very possibly build the 3rd edition of the Patriot Dynasty.

Is it all 'Unicorns and Show Ponies"? No - not even close. However, anyone who discounts 20 years of success is just trying to pad their resume so they, too, can work for the Boston area sports media.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Delete

 

[PatsFanInVa]

1. Props for using "rapacious"

2. Your thoughts on both Tom and Bill are same as mine. Major respect and appreciation for both.
Both the "pro-brady anti- belichick" and "pro-belichick anti-brady" factions are whiny snivelers who should be banished forever and probably shot 1st. Like you and the large contingent here who have common sense, I'm "pro-brady and pro- belichick".

3. I agree pretty much with outlook for 2021. Still a lot of talent on the team esp. with Hightower returning. Lot of good young improving talent on D. Very good ol. Excellent rb corps incl a good fb.
Obviously need help at wr and te.

I second the props for "rapacious." On any other BBS, it would only be used -- nonsensically at that -- in relation to Ben Roethlisberger... the quarterback, mind you, not the nonexistent official from Georgia.

Good thoughts as usual Ken. Bill hasn't proven his flip side proposition -- that, player's game or not, he can win a ring as a HC without the GOAT QB. TFB has established his end -- that, given a loaded supporting cast, he can win you a ring without the (previously proclaimed) GOAT coach.

Tom wasn't exactly forced out, but the Pats only had so much to offer in a variety of ways and he knew it. Interests aligned, and were made to align, for two solid decade. As I've said before -- and I was not the first to say it -- Tom Brady had already been his own Steve Young - that is, he'd given us all the magic of both Montana and Young by the time he left. One day the decision to move on from Brady will be the right one moving forward... although in any given year he sure can make you look stupid to make that call.

But all that agreed to, fan wars over da dynasty (dynasties plural, if ya ax me) will now, ironically, come down to "big deal you won the Tom Brady sweepstakes, and you lucked into that." (This is after he was an "overrated system quarterback" through 2004... Peyton was the real GOAT candidate...) Well, that's true of every other dynasty, really; Bradshaw = 70s steelers; Aikman = Cowboys; Montana = 9ers, with a Steve Young chaser. Has BB accomplished more that Walsh? Yes. Did both have a QB to point to to say "it all went through that guy"? Also yes.

But what BB can achieve by getting back to the pinnacle without Brady would be to solidify his place at the top, much as TFB did in Tampa.

And when you're sitting in a bar in a stoopit football argument 10 years from now, that'll be the big talking point: "But no ring without Brady" vs. "And he did it without Brady after Brady left." Two, count 'em, two, variables LOL.

And if BB gave a crap, he'd go find himself a loaded roster with a HC opening, right? I don't think he does. I think he'd rather build a roster from the groceries he shops himself (OMG, Bill the GM).

Whatever the media haters and vulture patriots say (you know, the ones who show up after Brady's gone to explain that the way back to greatness is not to have made a decision in the past)... I definitely think it'll still be a minute before we demote BB to the JAG coach of overreacting fanbase legend.

QB is still the big question mark, IMHO. Agree, we probably get the COVID sit-outs back, but -- and I hate to even say it, for reasons bigger than football -- that's assuming no bad COVID news in the interim (e.g., variants getting ahead of/staying ahead of vaccine tech). So as I have done for the last year I'll cross my fingers.

I'm truly looking forward to seeing how the pieces come together by next season. In today's NFL you do seem to need that top tier (or close) QB... but we'll never have that again like we had it in the Brady era. I can see Bill building a dominant D and bruising running game, with just a good-not-great passing attack. We just can't go with bad-but-not-great, as we learned in 2020.

 

[mgteich]

I suggest a Brady sub-board. Brady is a former player, the GOAT, that folks want to discuss. For many of us, it would be great to discuss the present and the future without discussing Brady in almost every thread.

 

[mgteich]

A couple of thoughts

.forward this offseason. We will have relatively a lot of cap space. We have a strong OL, a strong RB group, and an even stronger secondary, as well as an excellent kicking game. We are weak at TE and WR. We are decent but not strong on the DL and LB. We will have JUST our 3rd pick above the 20's since Richard Seymour was Bill's first 1st round selection in 2001.

Are you presuming that we are re-signing all of our free agents? If so, I agree with your assessments. Are you presuming the return of Jackson and Gilmore?

 

[UGAPatsfan]

People underestimate these two factors greatly.

4. If I'm Brady, I don't want to spend my last years with Bill "get off my lawn" Belichick. Yes, we were historic together, and he taught me how to win and what to focus on. But life is to be experienced and if I'm TFB I want to try something else. Belichick's style wears on me, and I've never even met the guy. Having him as a boss for 20 years is a lot already.

5. In addition to gaining 6 months of pool time, he and Giselle made passive $$millions just by changing zip codes (state taxes).

When people here use language like "the Pats let Brady leave" it just sounds like a colonial plantation mindset, where the players are property, and to me the rest of the argument is immediately disqualified as valid or interesting. If anybody had earned his right to choose his employer, it was Brady.

Nailed it. Add to that there was NO WAY the Pats could come anywhere near the skill position talent that Tampa could offer and I hate to say it but...Tommy made the right move. Can't really argue he should have stayed given the results. It blows but it's what it is.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Are you presuming that we are re-signing all of our free agents? If so, I agree with your assessments. Are you presuming the return of Jackson and Gilmore?

Jackson def comes back...Gilmore 60% to return IMO. Not as hard as I thought to just give him a bump. Tricky thing will be if he wants multiple years. No chance I do that.

Jackson should get the 2nd round tender and I don't see anyone coughing that up.

 

[1960Pats]

Hey, I liked MacPherson!

Me too

 

[mgteich]

Jackson def comes back...Gilmore 60% to return IMO. Not as hard as I thought to just give him a bump. Tricky thing will be if he wants multiple years. No chance I do that.

Jackson should get the 2nd round tender and I don't see anyone coughing that up.

If Jackson is given a 2nd round tender, there is little chance of him coming back. Surely, we are willing to pay him the first round tender i we can't reach a deal

 

[1960Pats]

I still can't believe how fast some people on this board have rewritten history to make Belichick into some kind of mediocre coach who just road the tails of Brady year one and Brady was elite right away and carried the team to Super Bowl victories.

People forget already how this team was built on defense first and only asking the offense to be efficient and not make mistakes and win low scoring slugfests. People forget how if it wasn't for Belichick's and Crennel's defensive game plan, there would be no way the Pats would have won Super Bowl 36 and Brady would never had been in the position to have that final drive. People forget that the Pats had a historic defense in 2003 where they won a lot of games without the offense scoring a single TD. People forget that when he had hole at CB due to injuries in 2004, he plugged in Troy Brown and a host of other players to help keep the defense together to win a Super Bowl. Now it is all Brady.

Yes, Belichick as a GM has made a lot of mistakes throughout the last twenty years especially in drafting in recent years, but Belichick the coach has bailed Belichick the GM out of it.

I've used this analogy quite often but here it goes again. This post reminds me of playing golf behind a slow group and having it made worse by hearing a player in my group do nothing but complain about it on every tee.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

If Jackson is given a 2nd round tender, there is little chance of him coming back. Surely, we are willing to pay him the first round tender i we can't reach a deal

You think a team will give up a 2 for Jackson? Can't say I see that.

 

[venecol]

Bill got to reset the cap situation during a year that was anyway filled with uncertainty thanks to COVID and has the team now in a strong position heading into an unprecedented FA period where a lot of teams will have to cut some players because of declining revenue. It all is a win/win situation from my point of view with Brady winning another title being the cherry on top.

However, I'd like to point out that we don't need some kind of elite QB to be competitive. There are many ways to go at that and I have full faith into the coaching staff to find a solution that gives us good odds to compete while not completely wrecking the salary cap for the next few years if things go sideways. Exciting times.

How can you say Bill reset the cap situation, that has the team in a strong position to compete, but then say we don't need an elite QB that'll wreck the salary cap; so we'll rely on "coaching" to make us competitive? WTF.

If Bill reset the cap situation why would you be concerned with wrecking the salary cap? The price for this reset was losing the GOAT QB! Relying on coaching to make a mediocre QB competitive didn't work with Cam or Stidham, so what makes you think it'll work now?

Teams are spending multiple #1 picks for a #12-15 QB to have a chance to win, but you don't think an elite QB is needed?

This team is far from being in a strong position having to find talent at WR, TE, DL, LB, and yes QB. There's 26 free agents, though some walk, there's about 6 or 7 key guys needed to stop the drain of talent even further.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Idle Thoughts: Those Pro-Brady Guys Who Were Right All Along (I Dismissed Them Then) Are Asking For Acknowledgement, So Let Me Call Them Spoiled And Unintelligent, Then Pretend I Wasn’t Claiming Brady Was A Big Part Of The Problem Edition

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How can you say Bill reset the cap situation, that has the team in a strong position to compete, but then say we don't need an elite QB that'll wreck the salary cap; so we'll rely on "coaching" to make us competitive? WTF.

If Bill reset the cap situation why would you be concerned with wrecking the salary cap? The price for this reset was losing the GOAT QB! Relying on coaching to make a mediocre QB competitive didn't work with Cam or Stidham, so what makes you think it'll work now?

Teams are spending multiple #1 picks for a #12-15 QB to have a chance to win, but you don't think an elite QB is needed?

This team is far from being in a strong position having to find talent at WR, TE, DL, LB, and yes QB. There's 26 free agents, though some walk, there's about 6 or 7 key guys needed to stop the drain of talent even further.

Signing McCourty, Slater, and increasing Gilmore’s salary: over $20M

Rationale: We still need to make the best football decisions to field a competitive roster. Let’s win as many games as we can. These guys are key to 2020.

Not signing Brady for $25M

Rationale: It was impossible to sign him with our cap situation. Besides, this team was not going to win a championship, so it would have been pointless. He’s 43! Not worth it. We needed that cap space and to reset the cap.

At some point you’d think people would just accept their revisionist explanations make zero sense, but that would require acknowledging they don’t follow an actual god and therefore their own understanding of the game isn’t perfect either. Heck, I’ve said numerous times I got it wrong last year thinking Brady might be done physically, and I’ve been wrong many times. But we’re dealing with a cult-ish group who have never been able to concede a point if it challenges their unchallengeable big brains.