idle thoughts - Happy Thanksgiving......

[PP2]

Never ceases to amaze me although it's getting pretty old and tired that there always has to be a caveat or criticism where Brady's performance is concerned, even when it's not remotely true. I truly believe a lot of you simply don't watch enough football played by QB's not named Brady.

Are you kidding? He was atrocious, period. The fact that we scored 49 despite that is scary to me.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

3. Am I the only one who noticed that Brady had a rather inaccurate game for him.(56%) He missed a LOT of open guys last night. If he'd actually been hot, it could have been much worse for the Jets. Isn't that freighting. I mean he barely used Hernandez (2 catches). He missed 6 open guys that I can think of off the top of my head, so it could be more. Plus all the Jet turnovers for TD's and the safety gave the Jets 3 extra possessions, limiting the number of time he would have to move the ball.

Agreed; Brady was great, but a number of balls sailed on him or got driven too low. The fact that a handful of off target passes stands out more speaks for how good Brady is than anything. However this is the type of game that the Pats would've struggled with over the past few years; it's nice that at least in this case the game wasn't resting solely on Brady.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Great read as usual.

a couple of my own thoughts:

A couple weeks ago when Belichick called Vereen a "faulk clone", to say the least my ears perked up. Last week we had a couple viewings of it, but it really started to take shape last night. The touchdown catch was obviously the highlight (especially how he caught it and ran in one motion), but the play that solidified it for me was the 3rd and 8 where he busted through a Landry arm tackle. It doesnt seem like much in hindsight, but it was a 16pt game, after the Jets just put 9 straight on the board. The ensuing touchdown put the game away, but that doesnt happen without that after-thought firstdown. Very impressive, and very Faulk-like.

Everyone keeps loving or hating the defense and comparing it to our past teams, but really I see a closer resemblance to the 2009 Saints. Big chunks of yards, only one or two qb pressuring threats, and a ton of timely turnovers. When you have an incredibly efficient offense, the D just has to win the turnovers, which we are doing at an incredibly high rate (26 takeaways, 12 for 2nd place).

On the same note, for those looking for comparable games, last night was like the monday night game we got trampled on by the Saints. You could almost hear Rex saying the same things that Belickick was saying that night, about no buy in and inability to get anything going.

Edelman has been touched on, but I cant go by without saying how impressive hes been. To have the ability to change the complexion of the game in so many different ways is exactly what the coaching staff always values to the highest degree. I loved seeing him and Brady jawing sweet nothings at each other after the touchdown, almost fighting to see who the most intense player is. If he can find himself on the field on a more consistent basis, you could easily see him slide into a more important role a year from now.

I seem to always forget about Lloyd, but for a player who is only in his first year on the team, his connection with Brady seems years in the making. He fought for extra yards last night, made the important catches when needed, and was just where he was supposed to be. Hes effectively become the new Branch, but without 10 years of playing experience with brady. I know everyone was expecting a deep threat, but what Lloyd is doing is something we would have missed dearly with Branch taking a step back.

I love that Landry thought it wise to jaw at our guys down 30, makes it easier knowing they made the right decision not to sign him.

 

[patfanken]

Great post as always Ken. Hard not to be excited about that performance especially from the defensive end.

I too hope Edelman can be back out there next week, with Gronk out and Ahern still clearly hobbled he could amazingly be a key to the offense in upcoming weeks. Welker, Lloyd, him, and now Vereen as legit components in the pass game would ease the effect of the injuries.

With Talib no news is good news, totally agree. Like I said in the other thread he doesn't need to be a shutdown corner or be a Ty Law/Asante Samuel type playmaker to have a huge impact on this D. We just need a reliable corner on his side of the field, same with Dennard to allow Arrington to play strictly in the slot and DMC at safety. That seems to me puts each player where he is best suited at the time and we're likely to see a major improvement in the secondary. Still early and yes it was the Jets, but hard to not be excited over that performance, can't wait for the Houston/SF games to see exactly where this team stands.

Patsy, what this defense needs more than anything, is CONTINUITY. Its the 2nd youngest defense in the league, and above all hey need time playing together.

I think this defense will continue to progress, but they can't reach their potential THIS year. Just not enough time. But its coming guys. A top 10 defense is coming.

 

[ausbacker]

The pleasing thing for me from yesterday's performance is Dont'a Hightower is beginning to look like the impact player I had hoped he would be at the time of drafting.

The Patriots D would be scary had they been able to acquire Red Bryant and Dashon Goldson given the improvement of the rookies. There's still a heap of work to do and despite the yards, it's pleasing to see that unit get some TD reward for their effort.

 

[PP2]

The pleasing thing for me from yesterday's performance is Dont'a Hightower is beginning to look like the impact player I had hoped he would be at the time of drafting.

The Patriots D would be scary had they been able to acquire Red Bryant and Dashon Goldson given the improvement of the rookies. There's still a heap of work to do and despite the yards, it's pleasing to see that unit get some TD reward for their effort.

Except for when he chased that seam route! :bricks:

 

[supafly]

Except for when he chased that seam route! :bricks:

Yeah, I would like to see more out of his coverage skills to be honest. I may be wrong, but I felt like there was a lot of hype regarding Hightower and his ability to be one of our better coverage LBs--amongst many other things that he could possibly do here.

It's good to see him progressing, but if I had to pick a side I may lean a little more towards Ken's (OP) opinion that Hightower has been somewhat of a disappointment to this date in ways.

That said, obviously a rookie often takes some time in this kind of system more often than not, and I would imagine that his roles will have some variance to them as time moves on.

He has a few sacks on the year IIRC, and has started to look better at times in the last few games. One great thing is that he is yet another younger player who is a nice piece to the continued building of a potentially great defense in another year or so.

 

[Mike the Brit]

G

What's really impressive to me about this team is it's mental toughness. Tons of distractions and excuses to have a flat game, but they didn't let any of it affect them. The missed FG by Gost just got the team fired up. They are very, very focused and mentally tough, and I get the sense that they have the mental makeup to handle any adversity.

YES

It's also impressive how physically tough this team is. Even Pat-hater Chris Collinsworth commented that the level of physical hitting that was going on was some of the best he's seen all year, and most of it was on defense and special teams. Every play was contested, the defense swarmed. The OL did a great job, too.

YES


The Pats lost Light and Gallery to retirement and Waters was a no-show (I can't remember seeing a Brian Waters thread in a while).




Edelman is emerging as a tremendous weapon - he reminds me more of Randall Cobb of Green Bay in terms of his open field and breakaway capability than of Welker.

YES

[/QUOTE]

Mmm ... I agree with pretty much everything. Thanks!

Edelman vs. Welker -- well, they're being used in different roles. Welker is the catch-everything-when-the-pressure-is-on-make-it-to-the-sticks-when-you-really-have-to guy. I doubt there has ever been anyone who did that better. Edelman has become Mr YAC. I'm so impressed with how much more imaginative and ambitious he's become with his punt returns and it seems to me it's paying off in his receiver play. The long TD was extraordinary. It will be interesting to see how he develops as a pressure pass-catcher. But I pray NOT because he has to take on the role from WW ...

 

[mayoclinic]

Edelman vs. Welker -- well, they're being used in different roles. Welker is the catch-everything-when-the-pressure-is-on-make-it-to-the-sticks-when-you-really-have-to guy. I doubt there has ever been anyone who did that better. Edelman has become Mr YAC. I'm so impressed with how much more imaginative and ambitious he's become with his punt returns and it seems to me it's paying off in his receiver play. The long TD was extraordinary. It will be interesting to see how he develops as a pressure pass-catcher. But I pray NOT because he has to take on the role from WW ...

I agree. I want them both, and I like how you defined their roles.

The other guy who I see as being a "Mr YAC" kind of weapon is Vereen. He's a nightmare in space for opposing defenses, and he needs to be involved more in the offense, as I and several others have been hoping for since he was drafted. He's finally showing signs of being the player we thought he was.

Greg Bedard wrote earlier this year about the "Oregonization" of the Pats offense with the extreme up tempo approach. Part of making that really devastating includes having guys like Edelman and Vereen who can create separation and turn small plays into big gains. Push the tempo and find those guys with a step or two in space, and let them turn the play into a big gain, perhaps more. If you add that dimension on top of the ball control intermediate passing game using the TEs and Welker and the power running game, there is really too much for any defense to be able to handle, especially under the pressure of an up tempo approach. You can get gashed by Ridley, sliced and diced by Welker and Hernandez, overpowered by Gronk, or if you let your guard down guys like Edelman and Vereen can burn you. Danny Woodhead fits into that model, and Jeff Demps will too once he develops.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Ha, I see! Multiple smurf-attack!

The teams that seem more Oregon-like to me have mobile, sling-it quarterbacks and multiple fast, elastic pass catchers -- Washington, for example. But I see where you're going with Vereen. Me, I've yet to be convinced that he has something special. But I was like that last year with Ridley (now: wow!) Happy to drink the Koolaid!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He was 18/28 which is 64.3% which is only slightly off his average of 65.1%.

Highest QB rating of the season at 139.4. On the season #1 in QBR and DVOA. With an offense that came out of the gate in flux and since grappling consistently with injuries across the offense...among other things.

 

[jsull87]

Just watching the game again and I think Fells needs to be given some credit for his blocking last night he really opened some holes especially for Ridley.

I think Solder's pass blocking has been exemplary and while he is also a tremendous run blocker he does need to be more consistant (if i were to be hyper critical) it was solder who missed the block where Ridley got hammered in the Hole.

Other than that i am really happy with the improvement this team has shown. Lets hope we can continue to get better and a real gauge of where this team's SB credentials lie will be the games against SF and Houston coming up.

 

[patfanken]

I just came back from a meeting and was going to post that also.

Ken, your football knowledge IS great, you may want to invest in a calculator, though!

Mea Culpa Mea Culpa But to my defense mine is a error of omission for not checking what I had read some where on the internet (so it must be true ) However despite the clear mistake in my numbers, one can't deny that Brady missed a half dozen open receivers last night, and that is NOT the usual case with him. I think what stood out was that these weren't the "off the finger tip" kind of misses, or just barely incompletions These were throws that were off by more than usual degrees.

BTW- as usual too much has been made of what I originally had thought was a back handed compliment to Brady. That on a "bad night" for him, he could still put up numbers that would be a career day for a mere mortal NFL QB.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

The pleasing thing for me from yesterday's performance is Dont'a Hightower is beginning to look like the impact player I had hoped he would be at the time of drafting.

That was nice, wasn't it?

Hightower is such a unique player. He's more of an edge player than most 4-3 outside linebackers are, and can even play defensive end a little, yet he played middle linebacker through college. Each game we see him used in a way he hasn't been yet.

Excuse my OTG moment, but the end result will be a front seven player who can be moved around all day to disguise schemes and exploit weaknesses.:rocker:

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I agree. I want them both, and I like how you defined their roles.

The other guy who I see as being a "Mr YAC" kind of weapon is Vereen. He's a nightmare in space for opposing defenses, and he needs to be involved more in the offense, as I and several others have been hoping for since he was drafted. He's finally showing signs of being the player we thought he was.

Greg Bedard wrote earlier this year about the "Oregonization" of the Pats offense with the extreme up tempo approach. Part of making that really devastating includes having guys like Edelman and Vereen who can create separation and turn small plays into big gains. Push the tempo and find those guys with a step or two in space, and let them turn the play into a big gain, perhaps more. If you add that dimension on top of the ball control intermediate passing game using the TEs and Welker and the power running game, there is really too much for any defense to be able to handle, especially under the pressure of an up tempo approach. You can get gashed by Ridley, sliced and diced by Welker and Hernandez, overpowered by Gronk, or if you let your guard down guys like Edelman and Vereen can burn you. Danny Woodhead fits into that model, and Jeff Demps will too once he develops.

Glad to see you mentioned Jeff Demps, though I wonder how much he'll slow down once he puts some weight on his frame (at 175 pounds his visit on the IR list might become a habit if he stays that way, but he has Olympic sprinter speed -- so he has to be fast).

Still, if Demps stays, who would go. I kinda like the group we have now and Bolden needs to back up Ridley (similar size)

 

[nabwong]

Glad to see you mentioned Jeff Demps, though I wonder how much he'll slow down once he puts some weight on his frame (at 175 pounds his visit on the IR list might become a habit if he stays that way, but he has Olympic sprinter speed -- so he has to be fast).

Still, if Demps stays, who would go. I kinda like the group we have now and Bolden needs to back up Ridley (similar size)

We're giving up on WRs. 5rbs + 5tes + 3wrs. Lol.

 

[mayoclinic]

We're giving up on WRs. 5rbs + 5tes + 3wrs. Lol.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of crossover between the RB and WR positions. Guys like Vereen and even Demps and Woodhead can be put in motion at times, and guys like Edelman and Hernandez can be moved into the backfield at times. So it wouldn't shock me to see the Pats carry 5 RBs + 5 WRs next year. Guys like Tavon Austin and DeAnthony Thomas in college would fit that kind of approach perfectly.

 

[shmessy]

Glad to see you mentioned Jeff Demps, though I wonder how much he'll slow down once he puts some weight on his frame (at 175 pounds his visit on the IR list might become a habit if he stays that way, but he has Olympic sprinter speed -- so he has to be fast).

Still, if Demps stays, who would go. I kinda like the group we have now and Bolden needs to back up Ridley (similar size)

Easy.

5 RB's - 4TE's, instead of the current 4RB's - 5TE's.

Let Hoomanawanui, Fells, Ballard and Shiancoe battle it out next summer to be the two behind Gronknandez.

 

[mayoclinic]

Excuse my OTG moment, but the end result will be a front seven player who can be moved around all day to disguise schemes and exploit weaknesses.:rocker:

Bwaahaahaa! And once that happens, the results will be BIBLICAL, to quote Brother Grid.

 

[everlong]

Highest QB rating of the season at 139.4. On the season #1 in QBR and DVOA. With an offense that came out of the gate in flux and since grappling consistently with injuries across the offense...among other things.

Agreed I was merely pointing out the numbers didn't backup the perception. I do agree with the original poster that Brady made a few throws in the dirt that he normally doesn't but if you watch a game of Rogers, Peyton or Brees you'll see one or two of those as well. Nobody is perfect. One good thing the Patriots didn't have as many drops as usual. There's been a few game where Brady would have had another 50-100 yards of passing if not for the drops. Some of them were huge gainers that he put right on the numbers and they ended up killing drives. Also a lot of the inaccuracies were early and I think you have to credit Rex. He had a good game plan. He just didn't have the players to implement it for 60 minutes. Also credit Brady and the coaching staff for figuring it out.