Idle thoughts - an abbreviated edition.

[patfanken]

Apologies in advance, since a family emergency is forcing me to be up at 5am. Hopefully it will work out. (I'm good, btw). So I won't go into the position by position breakdown like I usually do, instead just a few general observations from a clearly disturbing game all around.

1. Bad offensive game planning - Not so much the original game plan. We'd have been all over them if they HADN'T featured the run game since the Lions were last in the league in rushing. But where I had the problem was that they continually kept going to it on key downs, even when it was clear that it wasn't working.

b. Both the Jags and the Lions use bunch formations to great success the last two weeks. How come I never saw the Pats use them when their other crossing routes didn't seem to be open. CREATING space by design has been a hallmark of the Pats passing attack for the last decade. Where was that creativity now?

c. Same thing on the DL where NOTHING went right in either the run or passing games. Again without great individual pass rushers, the Pats have consistently been in the top 5-10 in the league in sacks, because they schemed their way into them. Where was that creative scheming this evening. Every time the Pats brought pressure Detroit had it figured out before the snap and seemed to block it flawlessly

d. Given the success of the Lions running game, I tried to figure out what they were doing. Granted it's hard on TV, but basically I think the Lions were doubling the onside DT and doing a good job of getting about a yard or two push back. I don't necessarily blame the DT because unless you are Vince, 600lbs SHOULD beat 300lbs every time. Then they pulled the opposite OG thru the hole while the TE or OT sealed the DE inside out. Where the problem came, IMHO, was with the LB's.

The Pats were consistently in a 4-2 alignment. When the LB's key blocked down on the double, everything I know about the position would demand that the LB step UP into the hole to seal the inside. Secondly, you would think that the offside LB would key the pulling G to the run side so he would be there clean up and handle any bounce outs.

So you have the onside LB stepping up to fill the hole, meeting the pulling G AT the LOS creating a pile forcing the RB to either run into that pile OR bounce it out. Two options that favor the defense. Instead it looked to me that the onside LB wasn't stepping up creating a soft spot between the DT and TE that was exploited all night by the Lions.

e. I what to know what allowed the Lions safeties to be an integral part of their run defense while at the same time, I want to know what KEPT our safeties from seeming to have any part of our run defense except to make tackles 7 yds downfield.

f. This will be a tough week to listen to the media's narrative. These guys have waited almost 2 decades to rain on our parade. They will NOT miss this chance to do so now. I will boycott them all, even the reasonable guys, except for the rewatch thread of course.

g. As I mentioned in the game thread, it was clear to me that the issue here was more about the OL and DL than the WR's and RB, though this week the media's narrative will make it ALL about the WR's and RB's

g. On a positive note, this is the NFL, I have said it time and time again, they are ALL great players. Outside of QB, the athletic differences between players is very narrow. You can see it clearly in the Bills stunning demolition of the highly touted Vikes ON THE ROAD, and the turnaround of the Lions. The Pats can turn it around JUST as fast against the 3-0 Dolphins next week.

f. But for that to happen (and its hard to believe I'm saying this), the coaching and game planning needs to improve. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see a big improvement along the O and D lines, and when that happens the passing attack and defense will see marked improvement.

OK that's it for me. I should be back on Tuesday, though I'll try to stop by tomorrow if I can find an 11 year old who can find this site on my phone.

 

[Joker]

The genius STB today, PFK. Have no idea what led Mcdaniels to think THIS was the way to attack the Detroit defense

 

[raduray]

I'm not as much into the X and O's as patsfansken's excellent analysis, but what I saw was
1. The D line consistently being pushed backwards
2. LB's that could not contain the outside
3. Receivers that could not gain separation
4. McD reverting to type and falling in love with a running game that was not working.

 

[catent]

One thing I've noticed re: the Pats inability to get open against man coverage, I think boils down to the types of routes the receivers run.

It seems much of New England's offense is predicated on read-and-react, option routes. Meaning the receiver adjusts his route as per the coverage. This can be incredibly effective against zone coverage since it allows the quarterback and receiver to read-and-react on the fly.

Against man coverage I think it's a hindrance. Decisive, sharp routes are required to beat man coverage, and if the receiver and quarterback are 'feeling their way' through a given route/pass that does not bode well, as it leads to indecisiveness and hesitation, giving the DBs an advantage.

 

[DarrylS]

The lack of talent on Offense reared its ugly head last night, then to compound the situation McDaniels created and called an absolutely crappy offensive game...

Defensively the Pats could not stop the Lions, come on now.. gotta do better than that.

 

[Brewskies]

I think everyone that has posted in this thread so far has hit the nail on the head. Pats need to improve both players and coaches. It was a bad game.

As BB says on to Miami

Go Pats

 

[PP2]

The genius STB today, PFK. Have no idea what led Mcdaniels to think THIS was the way to attack the Detroit defense

I think it was more about Patricia knowing McD like the back of his own hand, as far as knowing tendencies.

That being said, McD should have anticipated this and come up with a gameplan that was out of left field, so I concur that this one is on him.

 

[everlong]

1. I hate to give Collinsworth credit because so much of what he says is just babble filler but their LB core is just flipping slow.

2. The DL was just getting blown off the ball again this week. That unit just doesn't have the talent.

3. There's two issues with Bill on the defensive side. He still wants to construct the defense like it's the 80's or 90's. Choose size over speed. Second he underrates having top end athletic talent. Be it Willie, Seymour, VW, Vrabel, Bruschi in version 1.0 or Jones, Collins, Hightower, Sheard, Long, Hicks, Branch and others in version 2.0 the front seven has had some serious athletic talent. This team minus Flowers right now has Wise. Hightower looks to be a shell of himself.

4. On both sides they look complacent. The game plans are conservative. The players look like they are unenthused. Wise last night with his show of emotion seemed so out of place.

5. Getting back Edelman the offense will improve. If Gordon can stay out of trouble, stay healthy and play like he once does maybe they can be elite. I'm sure they'll fix the defense but only in the way they did last year. They'll beat the clueless teams but when the playoffs come and a team that can exploit them comes around I think they'll be exposed. That DL in particular. People will forget this fatal flaw when they scheme it up to play better against those lesser teams but some team that can simply dominate them physically is going to come along and no scheme is going to get it done.

6. Miami a must win? If they go 1-3 they could certainly still recover, or Miami could implode, but that's a hill to climb. BTW the last time the Pats had a losing record that wasn't 0-1 was 2001 when they were also 1-2 and then they lost to Miami to go 1-3.

7. On those last plays on offense when they still had a puncher's chance Detroit is double blocking Gronk 10 yards down the field. WTF?

8. The two third down runs to the right with Michel I was calling out the play from the couch. I'm pretty sure MP knew them too. That was so uninspired.

9. I felt bad for Jimmy G but at least he got paid. That's always been the risk with him.

10. I got the sense for the first time that Brady thought, I came back for this crap? They traded Cooks (which I get they weren't paying him that) and don't really replace him. They have a defense that is allowing time of possession to be 3:1. They apparently tried to trade Gronk. He's not blameless with that Bledsoe-esque interception but I get his frustration.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

Tough game to watch.

Defensively, our tackling has been woeful.

Offensively, Sony missing most of training camp seems evident. Not McDaniel's best game calling either. We started 9 and out, out, out. It seemed like the Lions were prepared and inspired!

Just miserable.

On to Miami. Let's wake up!

 

[Kontradiction]

One thing I've noticed re: the Pats inability to get open against man coverage, I think boils down to the types of routes the receivers run.

It seems much of New England's offense is predicated on read-and-react, option routes. Meaning the receiver adjusts his route as per the coverage. This can be incredibly effective against zone coverage since it allows the quarterback and receiver to read-and-react on the fly.

Against man coverage I think it's a hindrance. Decisive, sharp routes are required to beat man coverage, and if the receiver and quarterback are 'feeling their way' through a given route/pass that does not bode well, as it leads to indecisiveness and hesitation, giving the DBs an advantage.

Nah, I just think it boils down to the fact that the WRs are not very good.

 

[maineman209]

They have a defense that is allowing time of possession to be 3:1.

Actually, ToP was about 1:1 in the first two games.

The Lions ToP last night was 2:1, but it certainly wasn't all on the defense. The Pats offense managed to convert only 2 of 10 3rd/4th down plays and gained only 12 1st-downs total.

 

[maineman209]

Bottom line for me is that:
1) This Lions team is actually much better than people think.
2) The Pats played like it was pre-season.

 

[Dagg]

Our defense hasnt gotten off the field all year. Lions didnt punt until 4th quarter. Lack of quickness at skilled position is killing us with key loses Edelman , Dola and Dion Lewis.

We can only hope Gordon comes along enough and Edleman comes back to losen up some of the coverage so we actually get a few guys open for once.

 

[SEA_Pat]

I don't know enough about football to understand why, but it seemed to me that this may well have been a case where Patricia knew something about our line philosophy on both sides of the ball that he could exploit. They were so badly out-played on the OL and DL by a team that hasn't done a thing right all year, it's just very odd how lop-sided the battle was.

On the other hand, I recall watching Ricky-Jean Francois knock Shaq Mason three yards backwards into Sony Michel on third and one so maybe the Lions were just jacked up by their cadre of ex-Patriots and decided they were going to kick azz.

Either way, two terrible games in a row which is quite uncharacteristic. I expect them to circle the wagons and come out with fire against the Dolphins. If that doesn't happen, then I'll be concerned.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I agree that the defense looks visibly slow. Part of that is the players and another part of that is the Time of Possession differential. But, the players/LB specifically do seem slow. We've seen more than a few speedy RBs be able to urn the corner and zip upfield with a LB wiffing on an attempted arm tackle (assuming they were that close).

Still, I always tell everyone that the first 4 weeks for the Patriots are always head scratchers and to wait until week 6 to see what we have before jumping off the boat. With Edlemen coming back, the offense will start clicking and who knows what happens with Josh Gordon. But teams can't double both Edlemen and Gronk (and Edlemen looked conceptional for a guy coming off his injury - not quite Adrian Petersen recovery, but pretty darn close).

They can figure out scheme. If there's a locker room issue, that could be the one thing that takes the team down. But, I haven't really felt that, just echoes from last years drama.

 

[borg]

Nice job PFK

A few disconnected thoughts...

Detroit's left guard was a man among boys ....aka.....Pats DL.
Was that rookie Frank Ragnow.....destroying the Pats' right side? Impressive.
Malcom Brown got destroyed play after play....worrisome.

I have been saying for years NE's D is vulnerable to releasing RBs out of the backfield and runners with speed who can turn the corner. Unfortunately...now .....a team just gutted the Pats front 7 up the middle as well. Yikes

Detroit safeties had zero concern regarding Pats WR personnel and played run support with their free time.
Pats WRs caught 4 balls (Dorsett zero catches, several drops)
Patriots WR corp should experience a very positive domino effect once Edelman returns....with each WR assuming the role the coordinators intended.
I am clinging to this belief..... chanting...IT WILL GET BETTER, IT WILL GET BETTER

Sony looked more comfortable in his game #2.....a NE positive....YEAH

In games NE's offense struggles, Brady can be counted on to under throw a 35 yd pass down the middle into thick coverage to his slow WRs and get picked off. Almost a given.

In 2017 training camp, Pats had/brought in......Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Cooks....4 quality NFL WRs
In 2018......Edelman ,Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson....2 quality, 1 depth required now to be a starter, 1 square peg
Huge step backwards.
With the news that Gronk was almost jettisoned and looking at the weak WR corp BB assembled......my first thought is/was REBUILD.
No TE target, limited WR corp....what was the plan...throw to RBs all game?

My fear vs Miami........NE will lose the LOS battle again....on both sides of the ball.
NE's secondary will not be ready to handle Miami's gadget plays or cover that little speedster that emerged yesterday.
Hopefully, Miami will experience shrinkage playing in Foxborough. Unfortunately, NE has demonstrated 2 straight weeks of shrinkage....and beatings....... while Miami has risen to its challenges. The Pats could lose the crowd early.
My 10-6 prediction may be too ambitious.
Last night's loss was not to a league power or a high octane offense. The wretched Detroit Lions just manhandled NE.
Come on Pats....show us something!!!!

 

[mgteich]

Nah, I just think it boils down to the fact that the WRs are not very good.

We are a passing team that has won with many poor sets of WR's over the years. With Gronk being double-teamed on every play, the lack of talent showed up. Dorsett, Hogan and Patterson are simply not enough. Michel will get better and we will be OK with him and White as a complementary run game, but we need receivers that win one on one battles.

That being said, adding a #1 receiver may make all the difference. If not, we'll wait for Edelman.

TRADE DEADLINE
As of now, we need a LB and a WR (hopefully Gordon is that player). We may also need a corner if Rowe is really toast. Gilmore and J Jones are playing well enough; but one more is needed, plus a backup.

 

[patriot1136]

So between the O-line and D line issues, how much of it is coachable? How much is just a talent issue? I am not as much of an Xs and Os guy as you all but I'm wondering where the improvement needs to come from.

 

[Vindicate]

I think it was more about Patricia knowing McD like the back of his own hand, as far as knowing tendencies.

That being said, McD should have anticipated this and come up with a gameplan that was out of left field, so I concur that this one is on him.

The man's job was masking the deficiency of this defense. As a result, he's gonna know how to attack them perfectly. I think that had a lot to do with last night.

 

[sean10mm]

The defense just suffers from a talent deficit in the front 7. I expect some improvement in play because either Brian Flores will learn on the job, or Belichick will take away whatever autonomy he has and manage the defense more himself. But fundamentally there is neither pass rushing talent nor run stuffing thumpers on display there.

On offense they just lack receiver talent. Had Edelman not been suspended they probably would have been at least OK on that front, but in the first 3 games they had literally nobody that any defense would have to care about at all except Gronk. When Edelman comes back they should be passable, and if the Gordon gamble pays off at all I expect the offense to do a complete 180.

McDaniels no doubt saw this and decided the answer was to party like it was 2004, but uh nobody on this team is a good downhill runner and the run blocking has been suspect at best. So we get to a situation where the Patriots are #20 in passing attempts so far this year (!!!) as we throw mediocre running backs straight into the fat rolls of the opposing DL to kill drives over and over.