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Idle thoughts - an abbreviated edition.


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The man's job was masking the deficiency of this defense. As a result, he's gonna know how to attack them perfectly. I think that had a lot to do with last night.
KC knew how to attack them.
Philly knew how to attack them.
And when NE adjusted, Philly attacked the next weak spot successfully
Atlanta did the same....until they went into shrinkage mode.
Plug one hole, two more leaks appear
Smart coaching recognizes the holes and attacks them. Teams with talent exploit them. And the Lions too :)
Back in the early days....2001-04, Patriots D personnel were talented enough to morph/adapt/adjust on the fly. This group....not so much.
 
Cripes that was ugly. I even forgot to enter my "predict the score" score. An all around bad day. The worst perhaps was the way the team looked like it had given up.
 
The man's job was masking the deficiency of this defense. As a result, he's gonna know how to attack them perfectly. I think that had a lot to do with last night.

Exactly. They alerted to outside zone on every third and short. Slanted right into it every time, killed it most of the time.
 
McDaniels no doubt saw this and decided the answer was to party like it was 2004, but uh nobody on this team is a good downhill runner and the run blocking has been suspect at best. So we get to a situation where the Patriots are #20 in passing attempts so far this year (!!!) as we throw mediocre running backs straight into the fat rolls of the opposing DL to kill drives over and over.

The loss of big back Hill was a major set back for NE's running game this year IMO. I expected him to carve out a significant role as the season progressed. And with Burkhead dealing with multiple issues, NE must lean on a smallish rookie for interior yards. Not ideal. Sony does hit the hole fast. May he stay in one piece!
 
Apologies in advance, since a family emergency is forcing me to be up at 5am. Hopefully it will work out. (I'm good, btw). So I won't go into the position by position breakdown like I usually do, instead just a few general observations from a clearly disturbing game all around.

1. Bad offensive game planning - Not so much the original game plan. We'd have been all over them if they HADN'T featured the run game since the Lions were last in the league in rushing. But where I had the problem was that they continually kept going to it on key downs, even when it was clear that it wasn't working.

b. Both the Jags and the Lions use bunch formations to great success the last two weeks. How come I never saw the Pats use them when their other crossing routes didn't seem to be open. CREATING space by design has been a hallmark of the Pats passing attack for the last decade. Where was that creativity now?

c. Same thing on the DL where NOTHING went right in either the run or passing games. Again without great individual pass rushers, the Pats have consistently been in the top 5-10 in the league in sacks, because they schemed their way into them. Where was that creative scheming this evening. Every time the Pats brought pressure Detroit had it figured out before the snap and seemed to block it flawlessly

d. Given the success of the Lions running game, I tried to figure out what they were doing. Granted it's hard on TV, but basically I think the Lions were doubling the onside DT and doing a good job of getting about a yard or two push back. I don't necessarily blame the DT because unless you are Vince, 600lbs SHOULD beat 300lbs every time. Then they pulled the opposite OG thru the hole while the TE or OT sealed the DE inside out. Where the problem came, IMHO, was with the LB's.

The Pats were consistently in a 4-2 alignment. When the LB's key blocked down on the double, everything I know about the position would demand that the LB step UP into the hole to seal the inside. Secondly, you would think that the offside LB would key the pulling G to the run side so he would be there clean up and handle any bounce outs.

So you have the onside LB stepping up to fill the hole, meeting the pulling G AT the LOS creating a pile forcing the RB to either run into that pile OR bounce it out. Two options that favor the defense. Instead it looked to me that the onside LB wasn't stepping up creating a soft spot between the DT and TE that was exploited all night by the Lions.

e. I what to know what allowed the Lions safeties to be an integral part of their run defense while at the same time, I want to know what KEPT our safeties from seeming to have any part of our run defense except to make tackles 7 yds downfield.

f. This will be a tough week to listen to the media's narrative. These guys have waited almost 2 decades to rain on our parade. They will NOT miss this chance to do so now. I will boycott them all, even the reasonable guys, except for the rewatch thread of course. ;)

g. As I mentioned in the game thread, it was clear to me that the issue here was more about the OL and DL than the WR's and RB, though this week the media's narrative will make it ALL about the WR's and RB's :rolleyes:

g. On a positive note, this is the NFL, I have said it time and time again, they are ALL great players. Outside of QB, the athletic differences between players is very narrow. You can see it clearly in the Bills stunning demolition of the highly touted Vikes ON THE ROAD, and the turnaround of the Lions. The Pats can turn it around JUST as fast against the 3-0 Dolphins next week.

f. But for that to happen (and its hard to believe I'm saying this), the coaching and game planning needs to improve. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see a big improvement along the O and D lines, and when that happens the passing attack and defense will see marked improvement.

OK that's it for me. I should be back on Tuesday, though I'll try to stop by tomorrow if I can find an 11 year old who can find this site on my phone. ;)
 
For me, the bottom line is that our top 5 in the defensive backfield are just NOT ENOUGH.
We had Gilmore, J Jones, McCourty, Harmon, and McCourty. It was extremely difficult to game plan and to adjust. Obviously, this is even more the case when none of the LB's are of any help against the pass.

Obviously, we need Chung back. McCourty needs to continue to improve in his ability to function in this defense. Maybe Rowe will be demoted to the #7 DB. That's OK if Jason is doing OK.

I don't expect anything from the bottom 3 corners. However, one of them may need to eb the #7 DB if Rowe needs to go.
 
f. This will be a tough week to listen to the media's narrative. These guys have waited almost 2 decades to rain on our parade. They will NOT miss this chance to do so now. I will boycott them all, even the reasonable guys, except for the rewatch thread of course. ;)

g. As I mentioned in the game thread, it was clear to me that the issue here was more about the OL and DL than the WR's and RB, though this week the media's narrative will make it ALL about the WR's and RB's :rolleyes:
Its not just the media.
 
Cripes that was ugly. I even forgot to enter my "predict the score" score. An all around bad day. The worst perhaps was the way the team looked like it had given up.
I didn't see them giving up, they looked they were fighting and still had a chance entering the 4th. They're never as bad as they look in a bad loss and are never as good as they look in a blow out win.
 
Give Brady healthy guys that can get open and catch the ball and Pats win games 35-24....with this teams bundle of crap at receiver they can't score more than 10 vs Detroit....
 
When I watched them throw to Michel twice to no avail and manage to gain almost no yards on key down conversions running the ball, I thought game over. This was an absolute putrid display by Josh McDaniels and the other offensive coaches. They stuck with a run game on key 3rd downs that hadn't been able to convert all day. They gave away a key set of downs with 2 failed swing passes in a row to Michel, the same swing pass he has botched in other games. The only time the Pats moved the ball is when they put the ball in Brady's hands and let him sling it, aside from 2 good runs from Michel. If they really wanted to screw with the Lions, they should have put White and Michel in the backfield, Gronk out wide, and Dorsett/Hogan on the crossing routes. They would have had a run/wheel route option, created space in the middle, and had Gronk in the event of a botched coverage/causing the defensive players to pick themselves.

The Defense was equally as gnarly, slow to get to the ball, no real pass rush, and did not communicate well.

Hats off the Patricia, he had his guys prepared for us and we were unimaginitive and didn't adjust really all game.
 
Actually, ToP was about 1:1 in the first two games.

The Lions ToP last night was 2:1, but it certainly wasn't all on the defense. The Pats offense managed to convert only 2 of 10 3rd/4th down plays and gained only 12 1st-downs total.

I should have been more specific. I was only referring to TOP for last night. I didn't check the end of the game numbers but remembered at one point in the first half it was crazy skewed towards the Lions.
 
can't see them turning the defense around any time soon..you can't coach up slowness.
 
For me, the bottom line is that our top 5 in the defensive backfield are just NOT ENOUGH.
We had Gilmore, J Jones, McCourty, Harmon, and McCourty. It was extremely difficult to game plan and to adjust. Obviously, this is even more the case when none of the LB's are of any help against the pass.

Obviously, we need Chung back. McCourty needs to continue to improve in his ability to function in this defense. Maybe Rowe will be demoted to the #7 DB. That's OK if Jason is doing OK.

I don't expect anything from the bottom 3 corners. However, one of them may need to eb the #7 DB if Rowe needs to go.

Rowe is a matchup guy, JJ can play and JCJ and Crossen are getting some reps. As you said getting Chung back is huge, he’s at least competitive at all times.

The secondary is not where I’m worried about, we have to add a piece in the LB and DT core, and then hope Wise keeps rising, Flowers stays healthy and Rivers can contribute something. I’d be willing to give up more than we should if there is DT and OLB option out there.

Hightower is likely done. I think KVN and Bentley could be serviceable as your strong or MLB but they need some speed and athleticism infused around them
 
can't see them turning the defense around any time soon..you can't coach up slowness.

We’re probably not that slow outside of LB, it’s just that they are so abysmal it stands out.

Gilmore
Rowe - matchup guy
JJ
JCJ/Crossen
DMac not impactful but still pretty fast

LB - Slowest most unathletic group ever

Wise/Flowers
Butler
Rivers in theory

There’s some speed in this defense, but you’re missing one entire level.

We need DTs stopping the run and pushing the pocket to help our DEs, I wouldn’t try to find a pass rusher when you have crap at DT and LB to fix first
 
Comments:

a.) I am gonna drop my post-game comments/thoughts here. This thread is as good of a place as any on this board.

b.) When it rains, it pours.

c.) The good:

- Cyrus Jones didn't muff a punt that he fair catch called very late (hey, I am grasping for straws here).
- Hogan was getting open late in the game on short routes over the middle.
- Patterson had a good sideline grab.
- Michel showed something when the OL blocked and gave him a little opening.
- The OL gave Brady enough time to make plays.
- Gilmore is playing at a high level despite allowing two TD's (on one I thought he had a good tackle at the goal line and on the second it looked like the safety did not roll over in time).
- Adam Butler is getting pressure from the interior at least.
- Wise Jr. looked pretty good yesterday, but need to watch film for his run D.
- J.Jones is competitive out there.
- Patterson had 3 KOR's...reached the 40, the 30, and then the 20...not bad.

d.) The bad:

- Hightower is not an impact player like he should be. I hope it is just him working back into shape.
- D.McCourty is not an impact player like he should be. For what we are paying him, he needs to be blowing up plays and not being a hair late.
- Shelton and Malcom Brown are getting their shoulder pads turned at the LOS. These two need to be immovable.
- Clayborn needs to get better. He isn't an all pro, but come on...we brought him in to get pressure.
- Harmon struggled last night, IMO. I saw #21 out of the play too often...or late.
- OL's run blocking on 3rd and short. Seriously, I can't believe Shaq Mason blew a block...c'mon kid...
- Doresett's drops and it seems that we need to incorporate different routes as Dorsett was running into double coverage.
- Michel's drops.
- Brady....that intentional grounding call was terrible and that throw deep to Dorsett in double coverage was terrible. It is almost as if he is frustrated.
- OK, I think I'll stop here before I drive myself crazy.

e.) The best news of all, IMO...is that we are in a definitive slump. Last week, I was thinking that it was possible that we did not have the talent needed on defense to make a difference...this week I am convinced that the D has its head up its ass...plain and simple. Come on...the Titans simply contained Blake Bortles and won 9-6. The Jaguars scored 6 points the week after dropping 31 and 400+ yards on us! The Bills dropped 27 on the Vikings in Minnesota! Is anyone gonna write off the Vikes D yet? Yes, our line backers are slow...but we were facing Matty P who probably of all people on planet earth...knows the best how to attack our defense...and we had some good red zone stops (could have been worse). The Lions brought out those damned bunch formations and threw to guys running shallow routes horizontally across the field and kept running for easy 4-5 yard chunks which makes it harder for the D to make 3rd down stops.
 
I have some hope that the O can become competent this year with some work but I don't think the D is fixable. The bigger issue is that the entire team needs a rebuild and Bill didn't seem to do anything to address 0bvious weaknesses, particularly on D, from last year.

Now we need to strip out some overpaid players that are past it and find playmakers at all three levels of the D, all the while trying to find a successor for a 41 year old QB whose career could end at any time. Add in the fact we also need to invest at WR and probably TE and the long term health of this team is worrying.

The last time Bill rebuilt the team was after 2009. But back then he had a all pro QB in his prime. Now we will need to use significant draft capital in his successor as well as trying to find some young athletic playmakers.

Not an easy task.
 
I should have been more specific. I was only referring to TOP for last night. I didn't check the end of the game numbers but remembered at one point in the first half it was crazy skewed towards the Lions.

Yeah. It was something like 3:1 at the end of the first half. Obviously improved in the 2nd half to get the total down to 2:1.
 
Detroit had this game under control from start to finish. Worst problem is that our defense is allowing the opposing offenses to have much better than average games statistically for 2 weeks in a row now. Second worst problem is that we have no bruiser running back and no security blanket WR (until Edelman returns).
This is the closest I've been to giving up on this team (expectations wise, I'll still watch). For the infamous "on to cincy" game I thought people were crazy and got 50 yd line tickets since they were cheaper than they had been in a long time. This time I'm kind of in that group and hoping I end up looking just as foolish.
 
I have some hope that the O can become competent this year with some work but I don't think the D is fixable. The bigger issue is that the entire team needs a rebuild and Bill didn't seem to do anything to address 0bvious weaknesses, particularly on D, from last year.

Now we need to strip out some overpaid players that are past it and find playmakers at all three levels of the D, all the while trying to find a successor for a 41 year old QB whose career could end at any time. Add in the fact we also need to invest at WR and probably TE and the long term health of this team is worrying.

The last time Bill rebuilt the team was after 2009. But back then he had a all pro QB in his prime. Now we will need to use significant draft capital in his successor as well as trying to find some young athletic playmakers.

Not an easy task.

I'm inclined to agree. I expect the offense to get it together. Not sure there's any reason to believe the defense will. A year ago, the defensive struggles were all execution and mental mistakes. Now, while there's still a whole lot of mental errors, it's just clear that the linebackers are prohibitively slow.
 
Lions beat the Patriots
Jets beat the Lions
Browns beat the Jets.

We're doomed!
 
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