Howe: Cap room is mainly gone

[patfanken]

Cutting Mankins, which is the only threat the Patriots can use in this situation, would cost the team $2.5m in extra cap, so Mankins is in the catbird seat here. I'm not sure that "Logan, can we please, pretty please, restructure your contract?" is really a demand.

Next year is the first year that the Patriots can cut Mankins for a net positive cap move. Restructuring him now would likely push that possibility off for at least another year, because Mankins doesn't need to take an actual dollar loss at this point.

I think you are thinking of a restructure that lowers the money he's due in the coming years. If that's the purpose than you are correct, the Pats would be negotiating with a weak hand, but I think just to shift his salary to bonus money can decrease his number this year while it increases it the following years.

If the only purpose of the renegotiation is to lower is current cap number, there would be NO reason for him to baulk. When teams do that, they are essentially paying 90% of the expected income in March instead of having them wait to get in their weekly checks. Why would anyone complain about that;

I was under the impression that the Pats, if they do nothing to change his current contract, release him with minimal cap damage after the 2014 season. I think that would make the best sense, because, they will have ot pay Solder that year. One big contract in, one big contract out. After 2014 is the time to get Mankins ot renegotiate downard, because then you actually have a hand to play

Keeping the need to pay Solder in mind, I'd rather not add to his cap number beyond 2014

 

[Deus Irae]

95% of the time (well prior to this offseason) when a player restructures their contract, it means converting salary to bonus. What leverage do the Pats need to convince Mankins to take most of his base salary in one lump sum right now than in increments over the course of the season?

There's no leverage needed, if they're going to offer a restructure that favors Mankins, or at least doesn't harm him. However, the poster I responded to was talking about "demanding" Mankins take a restructure. The Patriots are in no position to do such a thing, at least in terms of dealing with the cap results.

 

[Miguel]

Jeff tweeted today:
"Cap update: Contracts for Talib, Arrington and Wilson still haven't been filed with NFLPA, so still a guess on Pats' cap space.

 

[patfanken]

And as to the OP, this is a complete whiff by Howe. I'm surprised he hasn't been on the social media to recant, or whatever it is they do, when they've put their foot in their mouth's. It IS unconscionable when they make mistakes like these. It's just lazy. Bad on him. Bad on his editor.

BTW- has anyone else in the media tried to use Howe's number in discussing the Pats current cap situation....other to wince in embarrassment. I love it when the mediots compound errors.

 

[supafly]

they probably have 3x the money he portrays them to have ---- it's not almost gone.

if you are going to write an article, why just make numbers up to do it?
if you aren't aware of the actual numbers, don't bother writing an article filling people in on the numbers

I agree with your general point. He could have just chosen to write about another topic altogether. That is where I feel he dropped the ball.

The amount of money left is obviously debatable, but as of yesterday there was about 16 million before the signings of Arrington, Wilson, and Koutivedes, so there really can't be more than 11-12-13 million left. The fact that he claims it's "9 million" isn't as much the problem as the fact that he's deciding to write about it in a somewhat negative tone. I can understand that he may be off by a few million, but I just didn't like his choice of topics and felt that it was a somewhat negative portrayal of our current situation.

 

[Lamanai]

According to a Bedard tweet, A. Wilson's contract was 3-yr/$5m with a $1m signing bonus. The 2013 salary is $1m.

Less than I expected.

 

[Rob0729]

According to a Bedard tweet, A. Wilson's contract was 3-yr/$5m with a $1m signing bonus. The 2013 salary is $1m.

Less than I expected.

That means if Miguel's adjusted number is correct, the Pats have something like $13 million of cap space. His number doesn't include Arrington's ($2.65 million), Wilson's ($1.3 million) and Koutuvides (probably $630k). So Howe is about $4 million off his estimates.

 

[yopats]

That means if Miguel's adjusted number is correct, the Pats have something like $13 million of cap space. His number doesn't include Arrington's ($2.65 million), Wilson's ($1.3 million) and Koutuvides (probably $630k). So Howe is about $4 million off his estimates.

Yup and we could get back anywhere from $2.5-$3.8mill for the Fanene appeal.

So that puts them back in the $15+ range.. not to shabby.

 

[Rob0729]

Also, I forgot that Wilson, Arrington, and Koutuvides will knock three players off the 51 man cap roster. That means $1.44 million should be added to cap to offset those players being taken off. Which means that the Pats could be closer to $14-14.5 million under the cap.

 

[eom]

I agree with your general point. He could have just chosen to write about another topic altogether. That is where I feel he dropped the ball.

The amount of money left is obviously debatable, but as of yesterday there was about 16 million before the signings of Arrington, Wilson, and Koutivedes, so there really can't be more than 11-12-13 million left. The fact that he claims it's "9 million" isn't as much the problem as the fact that he's deciding to write about it in a somewhat negative tone. I can understand that he may be off by a few million, but I just didn't like his choice of topics and felt that it was a somewhat negative portrayal of our current situation.

I don't caew one way or the other about howe's article, I'm mainly commenting on the thread.
I'll take it on faith that miguel has accurate figs and howe doesn't, but I really have no way of knowing.

howe apparently thinks we have ~9m left, with half that earmarked for rookies, leaving 4-5m --- almost gone.

the reality, if we trust miguel, and I do, is that we are at 17m - (3 guys) + fanene.
the 3 guys in question add to 5m - 1.5m = 3.5m
I suppose you could peg fanene at ~3.5m, as well, leaving us at the 17m figure.

rookies account for basically nothing, so we have ~17m to spend, if we really needed it, compared with howe's figure of 4-5m.

I'd say substantially different.
I don't know when it was last updated, but overthecap.com has maybe only a half dozen teams with more cap space.
(because the pats are CHEEEEAAAP!)

 

[supafly]

the reality, if we trust miguel, and I do, is that we are at 17m - (3 guys) + fanene.
the 3 guys in question add to 5m - 1.5m = 3.5m
I suppose you could peg fanene at ~3.5m, as well, leaving us at the 17m figure.

Assuming that we win the hearing for Fanane, yes. I'm not sure when that would take place and when that money would go back on the books though.

I'm not sure about the total compensation that the team could potentially recover. I have heard several posters throwing the 3 million mark around, but I'm not sure. Either way, good point in bringing it up. Hopefully they will have the hearing sooner rather than later. I'm not sure when that would take place though.

rookies account for basically nothing, so we have ~17m to spend, if we really needed it, compared with howe's figure of 4-5m.

I believe Jason243 (the capologist from the NYJ boards/overthecap.com who posts here) has the rookie space needed between 3.75--4 million.

I will assume 3.75 at the moment, but I'd expect the possibility of Belichick adding another pick at some point by trading down, which could bring it around 4 million.

I can't see how it would be as high as Howe's guess of "4-5" million though, but he isn't far off.

 

[supafly]

That means if Miguel's adjusted number is correct, the Pats have something like $13 million of cap space.

His number doesn't include Arrington's ($2.65 million), Wilson's ($1.3 million) and Koutuvides (probably $630k).

So Howe is about $4 million off his estimates.

That's good news to hear. I would expect that to be enough to sign a halfway decent WR, and potentially add another through the draft.

We should also have enough to sign at least one pass rushing specialist, and to make some other smaller moves such as vet signings in the trenches/possibly Edelman.

I think the secondary is addressed just about the best it can be at the moment, besides some addition(s) through the draft--unless they'd choose to add a smaller vet signing like an Antoine Winfield or Sheldon Brown etc simply for extra depth purposes.

 

[Brady2Moss]

How many times has Howe tweeted something and then retracted it 3 hours later because it was totally wrong?

 

[supafly]

How many times has Howe tweeted something and then retracted it 3 hours later because it was totally wrong?

Yeah, he should've just turned in his work pertaining to a different subject and waited for the contract numbers before coming to this conclusion.

Like I said, it isn't the 4 million difference that necessarily bothers me, but the whole premise of the article which kind of hints at a lot of needs still, with no way to fill them.

It was an overly negative piece at least in my opinion, even if it wasn't really intended to be that way.

 

[mgteich]

The latest from Miguel. All that is out is the insignificant effect of the contract of Koutouvides.
=================================
Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $13.2 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $14.1 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Nick Koutuvides signing.

=============================================================================
BOTTOM LINE AS OF NOW (without restructures or Fanene money)

Miguel's best estimate is $14M or a bit less. We need a couple of million for JAG signings over the next few months. We need $5M for later costs (Player 52, Player 53, Practice Squad, replacments of those injured in camp, and an injury fund for the season.

The net spendable is $7M. We can spend more now if we are sure of restructures or the Fanene money.

 

[mgteich]

A) Jason's number is the gross number. We need to subtract $2.5M for the 5 players replaced. The net is under $2M

B) HOWEVER, we also need money for several other items: Player 52, Player 53, Practice Squads, replacements for players put on IR in camp, and an in-season insjury reserve. These could reasonably add up to $5M. A couple of restructures can handle this (Mankins and Gostkowski). Some folks talk about $5M for rookies. That's unreasonable. But we do need the $5M.

C) We also need a couple of million for players who wll cost a total of $1M or less, our usual dozen JAGs.

Assuming that we win the hearing for Fanane, yes. I'm not sure when that would take place and when that money would go back on the books though.

I'm not sure about the total compensation that the team could potentially recover. I have heard several posters throwing the 3 million mark around, but I'm not sure. Either way, good point in bringing it up. Hopefully they will have the hearing sooner rather than later. I'm not sure when that would take place though.

=======================================================


I believe Jason243 (the capologist from the NYJ boards/overthecap.com who posts here) has the rookie space needed between 3.75--4 million.

I will assume 3.75 at the moment, but I'd expect the possibility of Belichick adding another pick at some point by trading down, which could bring it around 4 million.

I can't see how it would be as high as Howe's guess of "4-5" million though, but he isn't far off.

 

[Fencer]

The latest from Miguel. All that is out is the insignificant effect of the contract of Koutouvides.
=================================
Therefore, I have the Patriots under their adjusted cap limit by about $13.2 million. When Tom Pelissero reported that the Patriots are under their adjusted cap number by $26.4 million my numbers were off by 900K so I believe that the Patriots are actually under their adjusted cap figure by around $14.1 million. My numbers do NOT include the cap effects of the Nick Koutuvides signing.

=============================================================================
BOTTOM LINE AS OF NOW (without restructures or Fanene money)

Miguel's best estimate is $14M or a bit less. We need a couple of million for JAG signings over the next few months. We need $5M for later costs (Player 52, Player 53, Practice Squad, replacments of those injured in camp, and an injury fund for the season.

The net spendable is $7M. We can spend more now if we are sure of restructures or the Fanene money.

Apologies; I didn't see Miguel was back in the saddle at Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2013 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

 

[Miguel]

Yesterday Jeff Howe guesses that the Patriots have about $9 million in cap space. Today Greg Bedard says that the Patriots have about $15.3 million in cap space.

 

[Rob0729]

Yesterday Jeff Howe guesses that the Patriots have about $9 million in cap space. Today Greg Bedard says that the Patriots have about $15.3 million in cap space.

What's $6.3 million between friends anyway?

I will go with Bedard's number just because his goes down to the last dollar (according to Bedard the Pats have $15,283,462). So I assume he has the official number.

 

[Miguel]

Now Howe is saying $11 million.