How worried are you about not having Mankins?

[IcyPatriot]

I'll pull a Belichick here ...


I cheer for the players that are here ...

 

[crowell33]

Nope. He plays for the Dolphins and was constantly in our backfield in the second game in Miami when going up against Connolly and Koppen. The fact that he didn't get a sack is a testament to Brady and his quickness in releasing the ball. Connolly is fine for depth but, like I said, I absolutely do not want him starting for any period of time. If Kaczur's injury looks to affect his season, I would hope BB starts looking at what's left on the market, especially after cuts take place.

I think Connolly will be solid at left guard. Go to Pro Football Focus. Connolly graded out well last year with both the run and the pass. Koppen does scare me a little. The pocket seems to collapse right through him as he so often gets pushed into Brady's lap.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think Connolly will be solid at left guard. Go to Pro Football Focus. Connolly graded out well last year with both the run and the pass. Koppen does scare me a little. The pocket seems to collapse right through him as he so often gets pushed into Brady's lap.

First of all, PFF has been debunked many a time here. Secondly, if BB and Dante thought Connolly looked promising as a starting LG, he would probably start him there instead of moving a guy who has primarily played RT throughout his professional career over to LG. Connolly is what he is - a back-up who should not be relied on for any extended length of time.

As for Koppen, I kind of agree. He's certainly a serviceable center, but it isn't like he couldn't be upgraded.

 

[Nunchucks]

It hasn't been encouraging for the O-line that the reports from camp that they have been struggling to run the ball on the O-line, Kazur has been banged up and Neal struggles to last 16 games.

So Guard depth at the moment would be:

Neal
Kazur

Connelly
Larsen/Bussey/Ohrnberger/Wendell/Ghiaciuc

There seems to be a big drop off in line play when Connelly comes in. The Depth on the interior line is paper thin and a few injuries would be a big problem. If Mankins doesn't come back, we better hope one (or more) of the young guys steps up to become an NFL caliber player.

Is the Offense or is it the defense?

 

[Bostonian1962]

I'm not even remotely worried. He won't be missed. He's crying about being offered between $35M and $40M so he can eff himself. I doubt he plays this year.

 

[patsfan-1982]

12 8:30 PM EST November 30, 2009 New Orleans Saints L 17–38
13 1:00 PM EST December 6, 2009 Miami Dolphins† L 21–22

thats what i was trying to say they lost 2 in a row and brady lost he's first home game

 

[Ring 6]

Nope. He plays for the Dolphins and was constantly in our backfield in the second game in Miami when going up against Connolly and Koppen. The fact that he didn't get a sack is a testament to Brady and his quickness in releasing the ball. Connolly is fine for depth but, like I said, I absolutely do not want him starting for any period of time. If Kaczur's injury looks to affect his season, I would hope BB starts looking at what's left on the market, especially after cuts take place.

Now that you have the team right, lets work on position. He is a 34 DE, lined up on the T. Oh, and the his listed as RDE which means he is over the tackle on the OTHER SIDE OF THE FIELD.
Strike 3 would be 4 tackles, no sacks, no QB pressures, and 2 hits on the QB. Oh and Brady was under such duress he threw for 352 yards that day too/
Aside from naming a guy who was on our schedule, you didnt make much of a point.
At this point it appears that your argument is that Connollys season was terrible because in one game a guy who you dont even know what team he plays for was lined up on the T on the opposite side of the ball from Connnolly and he touched Brady twice.
I'm not exactly sold on your argument.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm not even remotely worried. He won't be missed. He's crying about being offered between $35M and $40M so he can eff himself. I doubt he plays this year.

yup....the pats OL bench is littered with talent

funny

 

[Deus Irae]

yup....the pats OL bench is littered with talent

funny

Indeed. And, if Reiss' info about Kaczur's back is correct, that litter could very well be playing LG to start the season.

 

[Kontradiction]

Now that you have the team right, lets work on position. He is a 34 DE, lined up on the T. Oh, and the his listed as RDE which means he is over the tackle on the OTHER SIDE OF THE FIELD.
Strike 3 would be 4 tackles, no sacks, no QB pressures, and 2 hits on the QB. Oh and Brady was under such duress he threw for 352 yards that day too/
Aside from naming a guy who was on our schedule, you didnt make much of a point.
At this point it appears that your argument is that Connollys season was terrible because in one game a guy who you dont even know what team he plays for was lined up on the T on the opposite side of the ball from Connnolly and he touched Brady twice.
I'm not exactly sold on your argument.

Starks was playing NT in that game. :bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

Starks was playing NT in that game. :bricks:

Nope. Paul Soliai was.
AND the RG is not responsible for the NT,
AND ZERO of the QB hits were charged to Connolly
Seriously, if you can't admit you are wrong about this, you hve issues.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nope. Paul Soliai was.
AND the RG is not responsible for the NT,
AND ZERO of the QB hits were charged to Connolly
Seriously, if you can't admit you are wrong about this, you hve issues.

Really? Connolly was blocking Starks on the play that cracked Brady's ribs. Andy, I'm going to strongly suggest that you place on ignore. For your own sake. You obviously don't like me and it's making you take stances that really don't make any stance. Starks lined up as DT early in the game then at NT later on in the game. Connolly's failure to block him effectively was one half of the reason why Brady's ribs ended up cracked. On top of that, the second Jets game should prove as a second example on top of the second half of the Colts game. He's a back-up, not a starter. If he was a true starter, Connolly (a true guard) would have beaten out a guy who is a career RT for the LG position. As it stands, he's only seeing time due to a back injury to that said RT.

 

[Ring 6]

Actual break down:
Player Participation

Starks played 48 plays
24 DRE
5 DRT
That about 60% of his snaps on the opposite side of the ball.
12 NT
7 DLT


He lined up on Connolly 7 snaps all game, none of which were the 2 times that he was credited with a QB hit.
You might as well have said he sucks because he did a bad job blocking Reggie White last year.

 

[Kontradiction]

Actual break down:
Player Participation

Starks played 48 plays
24 DRE
5 DRT
That about 60% of his snaps on the opposite side of the ball.
12 NT
7 DLT


He lined up on Connolly 7 snaps all game, none of which were the 2 times that he was credited with a QB hit.
You might as well have said he sucks because he did a bad job blocking Reggie White last year.

One of which forced the franchise to jog off the field to have his cracked ribs examined. Andy, you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that Connolly is nothing more than a back-up. Are you now going to reverse course on that conclusion?

 

[Ring 6]

Really? Connolly was blocking Starks on the play that cracked Brady's ribs. Andy, I'm going to strongly suggest that you place on ignore. For your own sake. You obviously don't like me and it's making you take stances that really don't make any stance. Starks lined up as DT early in the game then at NT later on in the game. Connolly's failure to block him effectively was one half of the reason why Brady's ribs ended up cracked. On top of that, the second Jets game should prove as a second example on top of the second half of the Colts game. He's a back-up, not a starter. If he was a true starter, Connolly (a true guard) would have beaten out a guy who is a career RT for the LG position. As it stands, he's only seeing time due to a back injury to that said RT.

Its my fault that you said he played for the Colts?
That you got his position wrong?
That YOU responded to my post and want me to ignore you?

I have not said he is a starter, I said when he was in the game, the offense barely missed a beat.

I just posted the participation for Starks and he lined up on Connolly7 times and none of his 2 QB hits were against Connolly. You saying it over and over doesnt change it.

Here are te stats for all of our Gs last year.
Player-Snaps-Qb sacks-QB hits-QB pressures
Mankins 1209-3-3-13
Neal 879-2-1-9
Connolly 420-2-1-4

Lets make it easy, since Neal played about twice as many snaps, and Mankins 3 times, and divide Neal by 2, Mankinsby 3

Mankins 403-1-1-4.33
Neal 439-1-0.5-3
Connolly 420-2-1-4

Remarkably similar and less than the dropoff you would expect going to a backup.

You obviously don't like me and it's making you take stances that really don't make any stance. Starks lined up as DT early in the game then at NT later on in the game.

I have nothing against you but you have a habit of actin very arrogantly about things you are wrong about, and you've brought weak arguments to the table lately. That I do have a problem with.

There are facts that show Starks played half his snaps at RDE in that game and only 7 over Connolly. How you can argue that fact after getting the team wrong and after I showed you the source that says your facts are wrong boggles my mind.

 

[Ring 6]

One of which forced the franchise to jog off the field to have his cracked ribs examined. Andy, you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that Connolly is nothing more than a back-up. Are you now going to reverse course on that conclusion?

No. He was not blocking Bray on any of the hits he sustained in that game.
The stats list 5 hits, 2 each allowed by Koppen and Kaczur and 1 by Light.
It isn't Connollys fault that the guy next to him missed a block.

As far as your last sentence, what are you talking about??????????Read post 81 again.
I said I am fine with Connolly as a backup, and so is BB. Thats when you started with how well Starks played for the Colts.

I said he did a good job filling in last season, and am discussing how he played. How is that me reversing course. I like him as a backup, which means if he has to play I'm OK with that.
I swear you argue with yourself by creating arguments in your head and sayng I am arguing them.
Where have I changed my point?
I said he did a goo job filling in, you said he didn't, I discuss how he played in those games, and I've changed course???That just makes no sense.

 

[Ring 6]

One of which forced the franchise to jog off the field to have his cracked ribs examined. Andy, you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that Connolly is nothing more than a back-up. Are you now going to reverse course on that conclusion?

Besides, that isnt the point.
I said he was RDE, you said he played NT that game.
Can you admit you were wrong about that? Can you admit you implied that Connolly was responsible for him at least all of the 2nd half, and that was wrong because it was 7 plays all day (out of 58 plays).

 

[Kontradiction]

Its my fault that you said he played for the Colts?

Perhaps a reading comprehension class is in order. I said that Randy Starks, the Colts, and Tom Brady's injury say hi. Perhaps I should have made it clearer that they ALL say hi? I live about 100 miles north of Miami. I saw just as many Dolphins games as Pats games last year. I know which team Randy Starks plays for. I can't help the fact that you're so sour over what happened in that other thread a week ago that you're now not even reading my posts fully because you're in such a hurry to respond to them.

That you got his position wrong?

At the time of the injury, Starks was lined up as a DT and was Connolly's man. He was in the backfield during that play and was one of two guys that crushed our quarterback and cracked his ribs. The fact that he was able to do that when he was only lined up against Connolly 7 times is even worse.

That YOU responded to my post and want me to ignore you?

It's not just this post. It's been other posts over a period of time. You obviously don't like me for whatever reason so I just threw it out there as a suggestion. You might save yourself a lot of agony because, in the end, we all know where this one is going as well.

I have not said he is a starter, I said when he was in the game, the offense barely missed a beat.

So why wasn't he able to beat out a guy who has played his professional career with us at a different position on the other side of the line? What about the second half of the Colts game in which the interior pressure suddenly went up after Neal left and Connolly stepped in? The second half of the Jets game? Sure the first half looked good, but, by Ryan's own admission, the Jets did not blitz much at all in the first half. In the second half, the interior pressure on the right side of the line slowed our offense down to a much slower pace. Should I go on?

You admitted yourself that he's a back-up and now that he's starting, you're trying to convince me and convince yourself that he's a starter when the fact is that Mankins' position just got a lot sunnier.

I just posted the participation for Starks and he lined up on Connolly7 times and none of his 2 QB hits were against Connolly. You saying it over and over doesnt change it.

I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from, but it's flawed. You can clearly go see that the hit in question should have been charged to Connolly. The only reason that I can think of for why it wasn't is that perhaps someone else may have chipped him. But I didn't see it. Even then, though, the fact that you're stuck on this one little nitpick and are ignoring: 1) What you said earlier, and, 2) Connolly's other body of work, tells me all I need to know here.

I have nothing against you but you have a habit of actin very arrogantly about things you are wrong about, and you've brought weak arguments to the table lately. That I do have a problem with.

I'm not acting arrogantly. You only think that because you've performed very poorly in recent weeks in regards to your stances. But that's irrelevant right now. Right now, I'm looking at a guy who just earlier today admitted that Connolly was a back-up and now that Kaczur looks to have sustained a significant back injury which could threaten his season, is now trying to convince himself that the very same guy he labeled second string earlier in the day is now a capable starter. Oh wait, you aren't doing that? Then why are you spending so much time and typing out so many words in this thread?

There are facts that show Starks played half his snaps at RDE in that game and only 7 over Connolly. How you can argue that fact after getting the team wrong and after I showed you the source that says your facts are wrong boggles my mind.

Starks was playing right over Connolly when he and one of his teammates forced the franchise to the locker room. The fact that he only had seven attempts against Connolly and, in one of those attempts, managed to crack Brady's ribs should speak volumes about the guy. Now, once you're ready to accept that and want to start looking at Connolly's other body of work in the 2009 season, let me know.

 

[Ring 6]

Really? Connolly was blocking Starks on the play that cracked Brady's ribs. Andy, I'm going to strongly suggest that you place on ignore. For your own sake. You obviously don't like me and it's making you take stances that really don't make any stance. Starks lined up as DT early in the game then at NT later on in the game. Connolly's failure to block him effectively was one half of the reason why Brady's ribs ended up cracked. On top of that, the second Jets game should prove as a second example on top of the second half of the Colts game. He's a back-up, not a starter. If he was a true starter, Connolly (a true guard) would have beaten out a guy who is a career RT for the LG position. As it stands, he's only seeing time due to a back injury to that said RT.

I am trying to find film of that hit. If you are right and it was Connollys missed block I will admit that. I am not posturing to be correct, I am presenting my side 100% honestly and as accurately as I can. You are not coming off as doing the same, you are coming off as trying to win an argument rather than discuss a point to conclusion.

Here is what I found so far:

From ESPN via Google search

In Sunday's 22-21 loss to the Miami Dolphins, Brady retreated to the locker room after taking a big hit on a 58-yard touchdown pass to Randy Moss in the first quarter. Brady, who didn't miss any snaps, did not say what he had been treated for in the locker room.

That says first quarter, and we can decipher that it happened on the play at 11:58 from the player participation I listed (gae book shows 11:48, he end of the 58 yd TD) and the chart clearly shows Starks at RDE in the 34, 4 spots away from Connolly on Matt Light.
Can that be wrong? Do you have a clip of it? I am still looking.

 

[crowell33]

First of all, PFF has been debunked many a time here. Secondly, if BB and Dante thought Connolly looked promising as a starting LG, he would probably start him there instead of moving a guy who has primarily played RT throughout his professional career over to LG. Connolly is what he is - a back-up who should not be relied on for any extended length of time.

As for Koppen, I kind of agree. He's certainly a serviceable center, but it isn't like he couldn't be upgraded.

Yes I agree, there are message board posters here who do not like Pro Football Focus. The Boston Globe SMY once again mentioned the site by name in her Patriots article today. She is a big supporter, of the site.