How Much Should We Pay For Starting Inside Offensive Linemen

[Real fan 02]

We don't know who will be "on the market" in a couple of weeks. Lots of top players will (reasonably) re-sign with their current teams.

True. But those are the top guys at the position.. unless we sign a C I Wilson ending up there...

 

[mgteich]

True. But those are the top guys at the position.. unless we sign a C I Wilson ending up there...

Wilson, our rookie LG, won't just end up starting at center. I just work that way. We have Bradbury and zero reason to believe that Wilson would be a better starter for 2026.

We DO have reason to want to sign an upgrade for Bradbury, or even a veteran to compete with him for a roster spot.

 

[Real fan 02]

Wilson, our rookie LG, won't just end up starting at center. I just work that way. We have Bradbury and zero reason to believe that Wilson would be a better starter for 2026.

We DO have reason to want to sign an upgrade for Bradbury, or even a veteran to compete with him for a roster spot.

Yes.. I'm saying ultimately should we not sign a C.. Bradbury is solid and good solid veteran.. however do you think we shouldn't upgrade at C?

 

[Real fan 02]

McGovern is a good player. Linderbaum solidifies the position for the next half-decade at close to all-pro level.

Agreed 100%.. plus the likelihood of McGovern leaving the best QB in the league is probably not happening... what's a contract for Linderbaum look like??

 

[mgteich]

Agreed 100%.. plus the likelihood of McGovern leaving the best QB in the league is probably not happening... what's a contract for Linderbaum look like??

whatever contract terms he and BAL agree to

 

[Joey007]

I know Mike wants to get young..

But there’s nothing wrong with getting old man strength on the OL.

 

[Zuma]

Wilson, our rookie LG, won't just end up starting at center. I just work that way. We have Bradbury and zero reason to believe that Wilson would be a better starter for 2026.

Their is quite a few people including Evan Lazar / Alex Barth who have far more knowledge then you that believe Wilson will be a better C 2026 then LG in 2025. It’s an ugly look…get informed.

 

[dliverey44]

Yes, it would be good karma to offer Onwenu a 3-year deal that does nothing but add 2 void years plus converting his salary to a signing bonus.

That would give him what was contracted plus give us the 2026 cap room.

The team and Onwenu could make decisions after the season.
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As an aside, there is no need to do this anytime soon. The cap savings could be use after the draft.

Most of the higher end players sign well before the draft

 

[pazrul72]

I have to disagree. Onwenu was a top 7 guard last season. Claiming it needs to be cut in half is ridiculous. Go look at all the OTHER RIGHT guards out there who are making more than Onwenu.

Trey Smith, Chris Lindstrom, Robert Hunt. Those are the 3 RGs who's AAV are higher than Onwenu.
Sam Cosmi, Quinn Meinerz, and Will Fries are within 1.5M AAV.

Trey Smith - 1 sack, 2 QB hits, 13 Hurries on 459 pass blocking snaps
Chris Lindstrom - 1 sack, 8 QB Hits, 35 hurries on 623 pass blocking snaps
Robert Hunt - only played 2 games due to injury.
Sam Cosmi - 2 sacks, 0 QB hits, 9 Hurries on 323 pass blocking snaps (missed 8 games)
Quinn Meinerz - 2 sacks, 5 QB hits, 18 hurries on 709 pass blocking snaps
Will Fries - 3 sacks, 4 QB hits, 30 hurries on 612 pass blocking snaps

Mike Onwenu - 2 sacks 1 QB hit, 18 hurries on 648 pass blocking snaps.

Right guards ahead of Onwenu in terms of pressures allowed on pure totals :
Austin Corbett - 3 sacks, 1 QB hit, 10 hurries - 405 passing snaps (missed 4 games)
Kevin Zietler - 4 sacks, 2 QB hits, 10 hurries - 590 passing snaps
Cesar Ruiz - 3 sacks, 2 QB hits, 14 hurries - 546 passing snaps
Kevin Dotson - 3 QB sacks, 4 QB hits, 13 hurries - 521 passing snaps.

When I look at how few pass blocking snaps that Trey Smith and Austin Corbett were asked to take, I see that their numbers are somewhat misleading.

Corbett - 1 pressure allowed per 28.9 snaps
Smith - 1 pressure allowed per 28.7 snaps
Onwenu - 1 pressure 30.9 snaps.

Zeitler - 1 pressure every 36.5 snaps
Ruiz - 1 pressure every 28.7 snaps
Meinerz - 1 pressure every 28.4 snaps.
Cosmi - 1 pressure every 29.4 snaps

EDIT: (added)
Lindstrom - 1 pressure every 14.2 snaps
Fries - 1 pressure every 16.5 snaps.
Onwenu is well worth his salary as a RG. I said above he's one of the top 7 RGs in the league. He's 4th highest AAV. He's worth the money and people only need to look at the stats to see this.

I appreciate the numbers and having a fact based discussion, by those you are absolutely right he is paid in line with what he's worth. Well done! That said I rate OL play on something far more subjective, especially guards. Do they push the pile and are the reason we have a running game? My answer for the 2025 Patriots was no. Again statistics say we had a top 10 running game but how much of that was boom or bust, Henderson breaking a 50 yarder, Drake scrambling for 15 on 3rd and 10? On 3rd and 1 I want my 18 mil a year guard to be able push the line forward and the pats couldn't pick up a first down running up the middle to save their lives.

Now I will admit I'm going off of memory having watched the games live once. Film study usually does illuminate more on who was actually responsible for that. I have no idea how well or poorly Owenu did in those situations. My impression is the issue was far more Wilson and Bradbury, neither one of them got any push what so ever. Wilson is at least a little understandable being more of an athlete and a rookie. He makes up for it by in theory being able to get to the 2nd level and out on screens. Owenu isnt that guy right or wrong I judge him more on his ability to use power cuz that's all he brings. Harder thing to stat, do you have anything that shows how good he was?

 

[mgteich]

Most of the higher end players sign well before the draft

Let us review the potential timing of decision points

BY MAR 11
Did Onwenu extend?

BY MAR 25
Did we sign a top- level replacement?

BY APR 22
Did we sign a mid-level replacement?

BY APR 24
Did we draft a current or future replacement?

BY AUG 15
Do we have a replacement for Onwenu?
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The choice to keep, trade, or cur Onwenu can be made at any of these choice points. Note that even in mid-August, the $17M of cap savings will be needed. There is no advantage is making an early decision.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Depends on the OL. I would give Lindebaum the highest contract a center has ever gotten.

 

[dliverey44]

Let us review the potential timing of decision points

BY MAR 11
Did Onwenu extend?

BY MAR 25
Did we sign a top- level replacement?

BY APR 22
Did we sign a mid-level replacement?

BY APR 24
Did we draft a current or future replacement?

BY AUG 15
Do we have a replacement for Onwenu?
=========
The choice to keep, trade, or cur Onwenu can be made at any of these choice points. Note that even in mid-August, the $17M of cap savings will be needed. There is no advantage is making an early decision.

Very fair point especially since we would not be relying on Owenu savings to sign another OL

 

[gobesmug]

Owenu was the only one on the Oline who did their job in the superbowl. He deserves his money.

Cutting him would be about as dumb as letting Gonzo walk.

 

[Ring 6]

Let's remember a few things... your likely not going to see the " cheap " patriots organization anymore.. going 4-13, last in cash spending the survey reports.. on the facilities ect,ect.. all had a glaring effect on the organization's cap spending... that matters...

They have to spend to comply with NFL and CBA rules.. sure spend wisely but don't try and disrespect a quality player with a take it or leave it deal.. I'm of the opinion good Players command good pay.. simply put.. drafting and making sound FA signings is the way.. on every position on the team.. especially OL..

They spent because they had 100 mill in cap space and pushed 40 of it forward. They had 100 mill of cap space because they didn’t spend in previous years. This isn’t a philosophical change.

They do not have to spend to comply. They haven’t spend CASH at 89%(?) or something like that if the cap over 3 years. With the cash spent last year they could probably not sign a single free agent for the next 2 years and still comply with the cap floor. I haven’t look at it since last year but that’s either right or very close. I’ll check again when I have time.

You can’t pay everyone. You can’t have a top tier player at every position and a starting caliber backup like people expect.
You need highly paid players, you need JAGS, you need guys on rookie contracts to contribute, you need guys at the minimum. People tend to look at every position and want the best guy out there. It’s not possible.

For example we have Bradbury at 5.7 mill. He had a solid season. He’s not the best C and he’s not the worst.
Do we dump him
And pay 25 mill for Lindenbaum? Is that the best use of 20 mill? Can we upgrade 2-3 different positions with it, netting a bigger gain?

Right now we have really no one at edge. We need to improve the OL. We need depth in the secondary. We need upgrade or at least depth at LB.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

 

[DaBruinz]

I know Mike wants to get young..

But there’s nothing wrong with getting old man strength on the OL.

Teller's pass protection has gotten steadily worse over the last 2 seasons. No thanks.

 

[Real fan 02]

They spent because they had 100 mill in cap space and pushed 40 of it forward. They had 100 mill of cap space because they didn’t spend in previous years. This isn’t a philosophical change.

They do not have to spend to comply. They haven’t spend CASH at 89%(?) or something like that if the cap over 3 years. With the cash spent last year they could probably not sign a single free agent for the next 2 years and still comply with the cap floor. I haven’t look at it since last year but that’s either right or very close. I’ll check again when I have time.

You can’t pay everyone. You can’t have a top tier player at every position and a starting caliber backup like people expect.
You need highly paid players, you need JAGS, you need guys on rookie contracts to contribute, you need guys at the minimum. People tend to look at every position and want the best guy out there. It’s not possible.

For example we have Bradbury at 5.7 mill. He had a solid season. He’s not the best C and he’s not the worst.
Do we dump him
And pay 25 mill for Lindenbaum? Is that the best use of 20 mill? Can we upgrade 2-3 different positions with it, netting a bigger gain?

Right now we have really no one at edge. We need to improve the OL. We need depth in the secondary. We need upgrade or at least depth at LB.

Very fair point. We actually do have to spend a certain amount of cap per nfl rules and the cba.. But your points were well taken and on the money

 

[TommyD4207]

Depends on the OL. I would give Lindebaum the highest contract a center has ever gotten.

This, he's that good, and solves a lot of problems.

We went from the worst offensive line in 2024, to a representative NFL offensive line in 2025. I'm expecting a year 2 leap from Campbell (and recovery from injury), so add Linderbaum to that, and now you're actually cooking.

 

[Ring 6]

Very fair point. We actually do have to spend a certain amount of cap per nfl rules and the cba.. But your points were well taken and on the money

We have to spend something like 89% of the 3 year cap in CASH. Not in CAP but in cash.
Last year we spend 317 mill. This year we already are committed to 232 and 2027 we are committed to 192. That’s 741 mill. The 3 year cap is 900 mill. We have already spent 82+%. Over the next 2 years we only must spend 60 mill in cash. We would spend that much just on draft picks and filling the roster with minimum salary guys or UDFAS
We could sign zero free agents, including our own and we would still meet the cap floor.

 

[mgteich]

This, he's that good, and solves a lot of problems.

We went from the worst offensive line in 2024, to a representative NFL offensive line in 2025. I'm expecting a year 2 leap from Campbell (and recovery from injury), so add Linderbaum to that, and now you're actually cooking.

I strongly agree. BAL will have an all-pro center. And we would be much better if we could sign Lindenbaum.

I would note that our 2025 was NOT awful. It was "reprehensive", as you say. Also, there should be a Year 2 lead by a healthy Campbell and a healthy Wilson. I would expect them to be better, even with no additions other the re-signing or replacement of Lowe.