How much longer will you drink the BB kool-aid?

[Zuma]

You might not be aware of this, but most fans of the NFL recognize the cyclical nature of team success. That the Patriots have been able to largely avoid that for the past 24 years is significant and due in no small part to BB's performance both as coach and GM. Yes, of course, Brady's role was indispensable. But the program/team-building philosophy established by BB and enabled by owner Bob Kraft's stewardship are factors you have shown little appreciation for. Misplaced disdain is more accurate.

The Patriots roster bottomed out in 2020 due to cap constraints. Sure, Brady might've helped get that team over .500 but it likely wasn't going anywhere. They bounced back in 2021 with a promising rookie QB and infusion of free agent talent. Where things REALLY went wrong -- and BB deserves most of the blame -- was last season with the Patricia/Judge fiasco.

IMO, BB also deserves an opportunity to right the ship in 2023. If the team suffers another losing season it might be time for him to move on AT LEAST AS GM. And I would assume altogether, as he unlikely would want to continue in a diminished role.

You need to be careful what you wish for, as BB remains a top game-day coach and still prepares his team to be competitive. Replacing him with whomever offers no sure bet things would improve with the Patriots at any level. In that respect, all of your whining and moaning about things since the departure of Brady (who you also routinely trashed when he was here) is very shortsighted and indicates how embarrassingly ignorant you are of how things work with NFL football teams.

Nobody WANTS losing seasons. Those who understand why they sometimes happen, even to top franchises, are capable of taking a broader view. That is, vs. calling for the head of a Hall of Fame coach who has delivered New England 20 winning seasons out of 23. But go ahead and carry on calling him "pond scum," dumping on "Krafty Bob" and generally clowning yourself with anti-Patriots vitriol -- it's who you are and what you do.

Bro...he was arguing with BobJensen in 97 on KFFL.

 

[FCB02062]

You might not be aware of this, but most fans of the NFL recognize the cyclical nature of team success. That the Patriots have been able to largely avoid that for the past 24 years is significant and due in no small part to BB's performance both as coach and GM. Yes, of course, Brady's role was indispensable. But the program/team-building philosophy established by BB and enabled by owner Bob Kraft's stewardship are factors you have shown little appreciation for. Misplaced disdain is more accurate.

The Patriots roster bottomed out in 2020 due to cap constraints. Sure, Brady might've helped get that team over .500 but it likely wasn't going anywhere. They bounced back in 2021 with a promising rookie QB and infusion of free agent talent. Where things REALLY went wrong -- and BB deserves most of the blame -- was last season with the Patricia/Judge fiasco.

IMO, BB also deserves an opportunity to right the ship in 2023. If the team suffers another losing season it might be time for him to move on AT LEAST AS GM. And I would assume altogether, as he unlikely would want to continue in a diminished role.

You need to be careful what you wish for, as BB remains a top game-day coach and still prepares his team to be competitive. Replacing him with whomever offers no sure bet things would improve with the Patriots at any level. In that respect, all of your whining and moaning about things since the departure of Brady (who you also routinely trashed when he was here) is very shortsighted and indicates how embarrassingly ignorant you are of how things work with NFL football teams.

Nobody WANTS losing seasons. Those who understand why they sometimes happen, even to top franchises, are capable of taking a broader view. That is, vs. calling for the head of a Hall of Fame coach who has delivered New England 20 winning seasons out of 23. But go ahead and carry on calling him "pond scum," dumping on "Krafty Bob" and generally clowning yourself with anti-Patriots vitriol -- it's who you are and what you do.

Did you go back through 4, 7, 9 year old posts to see if I "trashed" Brady? sad.
many on here, yourself included, are all too content with 3 years of mediocrity and failure...there is no reason to think Bill Duplicitous Pond Scum will be successful without Brady - there's no case for it and there's no history for it. Bill the Coach has won ONE, that's ONE playoff game in NINE seasons without Brady. yes, ONE playoff win and only TWO winning seasons. why is that? He is not a good coach minus Tom Brady. In Cleveland and 2000 and 2020-2022 w the Pats, 67-72 (incl 1-2 playoffs). is that a good record? throw in the year Brady got hurt and Coach Coconuts is 78-77, an incredibly Wade Phillips/Dave Wannstedt-like one game over .500. you're ok with that? Im not't, real fans get pissed off when their team loses; they don't sit around and say, oh well, they were good for 20 years....these last 3 years of losing by 50 in the playoffs, getting knocked out of prime time games, getting eliminated from the playoffs in mid December, getting destroyed by everyone in your division but the jets should not sit well with real fans. you and the passive (and I'm guessing many bandwagon fans) folks are ok with 3 years of garbage, well, some of us aren't. it's called passion.
Are you happy w the red Sox? won the WS in 2018, lost in ALCS 2 seasons ago, look like dog achitt this season...but missed playoffs 4/5 last year's and finished last twice? you happy w that? or are you one of those who only likes the Patriots and isn't a real Boston sports fan?

 

[Tunescribe]

Did you go back through 4, 7, 9 year old posts to see if I "trashed" Brady? sad.
many on here, yourself included, are all too content with 3 years of mediocrity and failure...there is no reason to think Bill Duplicitous Pond Scum will be successful without Brady - there's no case for it and there's no history for it. Bill the Coach has won ONE, that's ONE playoff game in NINE seasons without Brady. yes, ONE playoff win and only TWO winning seasons. why is that? He is not a good coach minus Tom Brady. In Cleveland and 2000 and 2020-2022 w the Pats, 67-72 (incl 1-2 playoffs). is that a good record? throw in the year Brady got hurt and Coach Coconuts is 78-77, an incredibly Wade Phillips/Dave Wannstedt-like one game over .500. you're ok with that? Im not't, real fans get pissed off when their team loses; they don't sit around and say, oh well, they were good for 20 years....these last 3 years of losing by 50 in the playoffs, getting knocked out of prime time games, getting eliminated from the playoffs in mid December, getting destroyed by everyone in your division but the jets should not sit well with real fans. you and the passive (and I'm guessing many bandwagon fans) folks are ok with 3 years of garbage, well, some of us aren't. it's called passion.

This clownish nonsense barely merits a response. You regularly crapped on Brady in 2019 and often prior to that. I recall it well even if you don't because you were one of the few who did.

You're just a hater constantly running everyone/everything Patriots into the ground. That is not "passion." A passionate fan doesn't go all negative when his team inevitably falters but that is your M.O., even when times are good. This doesn't imply the rest of us WHO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON are happy with losing, not by a long shot. Yes, it's possible to balance well-reasoned criticism with rooting for the team to do well during rough spells.

From what you describe you are, at best, a fair weather fan and at worst a hater who compulsively lashes out at what he doesn't understand.

Are you happy w the red Sox? won the WS in 2018, lost in ALCS 2 seasons ago, look like dog achitt this season...but missed playoffs 4/5 last year's and finished last twice? you happy w that? or are you one of those who only likes the Patriots and isn't a real Boston sports fan?

This is patsfans.com.

 

[Brotherblues]

Nobody evaluates Andy Reid based on the years he didn't have a top 10 QB. Nobody evaluates Lombardi based on his record without Starr. Nobody blames Kyle Shannahan for losing a playoff game with a scarecrow at QB. I don't get this obsession to treat BB differently. You wanna trash a coach, look at the ones who had their HoF QB and still managed to put up losing seasons, like Sean Payton.

 

[p8ryts]

LOL, I was going to say, I remember that frustrating afternoon that January ... losing that game definitely stung

If I remember correctly, we were lucky to be in the game. Playing the Giants down about 20-0, refs gave us a first down when everyone else thought it was a yard short.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Overall, Bill's an amazing coach. But even with Brady still around, some issues were starting to become apparent. Ask yourself if the old Bill, not old Bill, would ever do some of these things he's done lately.

 

[RIpats88]

What frustrates me is we are supposed to give Bill this leeway because of the "last 25 years" to make horrible decisions but we were okay with kicking Brady out the door. Where was his leeway?

I'm not sure people realize how bad the decision to hire Patricia/judge is. The media was all over it in March of that year how it wouldn't work. All bill had to do was hire someone with offensive playcalling experience.

 

[All3Phases]

I think it’s time to just reset the franchise and start new. If Bill was evaluating himself, he most likely would have been cut. Last year was a fireable offense if it was pretty much anybody else. All that added in with his lack of success without Brady, it’s just time. He’s the best coach ever, had an incredible run, but I don’t love the idea of a 71 year old coach rebooting my franchise

 

[Tunescribe]

I think it’s time to just reset the franchise and start new. If Bill was evaluating himself, he most likely would have been cut. Last year was a fireable offense if it was pretty much anybody else. All that added in with his lack of success without Brady, it’s just time. He’s the best coach ever, had an incredible run, but I don’t love the idea of a 71 year old coach rebooting my franchise

His age is irrelevant and the franchise is not in process of being rebooted. Look at it this way: BB is the GOAT and has this coming season to redeem himself from last year's fiasco. It's highly doubtful anything beyond that is guaranteed.

 

[PatsfanTN]

His age is irrelevant and the franchise is not in process of being rebooted. Look at it this way: BB is the GOAT and has this coming season to redeem himself from last year's fiasco. It's highly doubtful anything beyond that is guaranteed.

Ok, I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said in the past but, what if this season is also a disaster? What then? He IS the GM too.

 

[All3Phases]

His age is irrelevant and the franchise is not in process of being rebooted. Look at it this way: BB is the GOAT and has this coming season to redeem himself from last year's fiasco. It's highly doubtful anything beyond that is guaranteed.

I don’t think his age is irrelevant at all. Do you think he had the work ethic and energy that he did 20 years ago?

He probably won’t be let go, ever, but if it was my choice I’d see what Mayo has. To me, it’s just time

 

[Tunescribe]

I don’t think his age is irrelevant at all. Do you think he had the work ethic and energy that he did 20 years ago?

He probably won’t be let go, ever, but if it was my choice I’d see what Mayo has. To me, it’s just time

I'm sure his work ethic is solid. Experience/accumulated wisdom compensates for energy. If you know any working people of that age and beyond you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Tunescribe]

Ok, I’ve agreed with a lot of what you have said in the past but, what if this season is also a disaster? What then? He IS the GM too.

I've said it before: nothing should be promised to BB past this season. If 2023 also is a disaster, a change might be justifiable.

 

[All3Phases]

I'm sure his work ethic is solid. Experience/accumulated wisdom compensates for energy. If you know any working people of that age and beyond you know what I'm talking about.

You can’t believe that if you want. You kind of slid by the fact that he’s been a mediocre coach the last 3 years and basically committed a fireable offense last season. The older he gets the further away he gets from the current trends of the league.

In think if we all are honest without ourselves, if he was evaluating himself like he evaluated his players, his time here would be coming to an end

 

[Ian]

You can’t believe that if you want. You kind of slid by the fact that he’s been a mediocre coach the last 3 years and basically committed a fireable offense last season. The older he gets the further away he gets from the current trends of the league.

In think if we all are honest without ourselves, if he was evaluating himself like he evaluated his players, his time here would be coming to an end

The mediocre thing is a little unfair. When you look at it week-by-week in terms of preparation, game-planning, etc., he hasn't lost his fastball at all. They were in each game, had a solid plan to shut down the other team or at least keep things within reach but obviously couldn't score enough points. Granted, the special teams letdowns will go down as the biggest black mark (again, offense aside) against this squad, but the overall body of work was such where a handful of those games could have been flipped.

They were never grossly outcoached by anybody, and that's usually a better sign of a coach really losing it. Guys are still buying in, and that's obviously the biggest key since they clearly believe they're prepared well enough to win. Doesn't change the fact that the circumstances for coming up short this season would need to be drastically different given that many of their issues last year were self-inflicted, but I don't think it's Bill being "mediocre" - there were clearly other issues involved with why last year went the way it did.

 

[Tunescribe]

You can’t believe that if you want. You kind of slid by the fact that he’s been a mediocre coach the last 3 years and basically committed a fireable offense last season. The older he gets the further away he gets from the current trends of the league.

In think if we all are honest without ourselves, if he was evaluating himself like he evaluated his players, his time here would be coming to an end

Last season was inexcusable, I agree there. 2021 was a good re-set after the cap-induced roster bottoming out all teams eventually go through. Transitioning from a longtime head coach isn't as easy as it might seem. In this case it would also involve finding a GM and restructuring the entire football program -- that's a lot of institutional upheaval. I'm hoping BB has a good upcoming season after which they can begin work on a succession plan, assuming he's ready to retire after breaking Shula's record.

 

[gobesmug]

You might not be aware of this, but most fans of the NFL recognize the cyclical nature of team success. That the Patriots have been able to largely avoid that for the past 24 years is significant and due in no small part to BB's performance both as coach and GM. Yes, of course, Brady's role was indispensable. But the program/team-building philosophy established by BB and enabled by owner Bob Kraft's stewardship are factors you have shown little appreciation for. Misplaced disdain is more accurate.

The Patriots roster bottomed out in 2020 due to cap constraints. Sure, Brady might've helped get that team over .500 but it likely wasn't going anywhere. They bounced back in 2021 with a promising rookie QB and infusion of free agent talent. Where things REALLY went wrong -- and BB deserves most of the blame -- was last season with the Patricia/Judge fiasco.

IMO, BB also deserves an opportunity to right the ship in 2023. If the team suffers another losing season it might be time for him to move on AT LEAST AS GM. And I would assume altogether, as he unlikely would want to continue in a diminished role.

You need to be careful what you wish for, as BB remains a top game-day coach and still prepares his team to be competitive. Replacing him with whomever offers no sure bet things would improve with the Patriots at any level. In that respect, all of your whining and moaning about things since the departure of Brady (who you also routinely trashed when he was here) is very shortsighted and indicates how embarrassingly ignorant you are of how things work with NFL football teams.

Nobody WANTS losing seasons. Those who understand why they sometimes happen, even to top franchises, are capable of taking a broader view. That is, vs. calling for the head of a Hall of Fame coach who has delivered New England 20 winning seasons out of 23. But go ahead and carry on calling him "pond scum," dumping on "Krafty Bob" and generally clowning yourself with anti-Patriots vitriol -- it's who you are and what you do.

Well said

 

[All3Phases]

The mediocre thing is a little unfair. When you look at it week-by-week in terms of preparation, game-planning, etc., he hasn't lost his fastball at all. They were in each game, had a solid plan to shut down the other team or at least keep things within reach but obviously couldn't score enough points. Granted, the special teams letdowns will go down as the biggest black mark (again, offense aside) against this squad, but the overall body of work was such where a handful of those games could have been flipped.

They were never grossly outcoached by anybody, and that's usually a better sign of a coach really losing it. Guys are still buying in, and that's obviously the biggest key since they clearly believe they're prepared well enough to win. Doesn't change the fact that the circumstances for coming up short this season would need to be drastically different given that many of their issues last year were self-inflicted, but I don't think it's Bill being "mediocre" - there were other issues involved there.

I’d say he was grossly outcoached against Chicago, no? The way he handled the qb situation, again was pretty much a joke. And that’s really not what I was referring to when I said he was mediocre. They’re 25-26 since 2020. That is the definition of mediocre, I get there are a bunch of different circumstances and such, but again…when did we start excusing things? I don’t really see why people just slide by and accept the offensive hiring last year: that alone, would have gotten any other coach fired. That was an abuse of power if we are being honest

 

[All3Phases]

Last season was inexcusable, I agree there. 2021 was a good re-set after the cap-induced roster bottoming out all teams eventually go through. Transitioning from a longtime head coach isn't as easy as it might seem. In this case it would also involve finding a GM and restructuring the entire football program -- that's a lot of institutional upheaval. I'm hoping BB has a good upcoming season after which they can begin work on a succession plan, assuming he's ready to retire after breaking Shula's record.

I honestly don’t think he deserves to just muddy his way to Shulas record if it’s a struggle to get there. I don’t think transitioning will be easy, it’s also not easy with him coaching currently. He’s made a million decisions that weren’t easy in his career, sometimes they’re necessary

 

[Ian]

I’d say he was grossly outcoached against Chicago, no? The way he handled the qb situation, again was pretty much a joke.

Lol, we agree on that

And that’s really not what I was referring to when I said he was mediocre. They’re 25-26 since 2020. That is the definition of mediocre, I get there ma different circumstances and such, but again…when did we start excusing things? I don’t really see why people just slide by and accept the offensive hiring last year: that alone, would have gotten any other coach fired. That was an abuse of power if we are being honest

I agree with Tune - we sort of have to see how this year goes to figure out just how much 2022 was an anomaly, or if they've hit a ceiling and can't break out of it. Obviously, he's going to be scrutinized quite a bit this season, as will Mac depending on how it plays out. As I've said in the past, people who aren't happy sort of get the best of both worlds because both are under as much pressure as I ever recall Bill being under, with Mac clearly playing for his own future. Should be interesting, provided nothing else bonkers happens before the draft.