How good is Randy Moss at this point?

[Bobs My Uncle]

In a Patriots uniform, with Tom Brady tossing him the ball, Randy Moss will be the most feared player in the NFL when the games begin. He'll dominate opposing defenses, he'll command almost constant double teams and defenses will have to gameplan around stopping him first and foremost.

Randy Moss will be the best offseason acquistion of any in the NFL when all is said and done.

 

[VJCPatriot]

In a Patriots uniform, with Tom Brady tossing him the ball, Randy Moss will be the most feared player in the NFL when the games begin. He'll dominate opposing defenses, he'll command almost constant double teams and defenses will have to gameplan around stopping him first and foremost.

Randy Moss will be the best offseason acquistion of any in the NFL when all is said and done.

And if they don't gameplan for him, Brady will make them pay. A guy like Moss you try to keep a double team on as much as you can. He can still burn you in single coverage on sheer athleticism alone.

Don't forget we've also got Donte Stallworth who can stretch it deep. It's not going to be easy defending the Pats receivers this year.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

And if they don't gameplan for him, Brady will make them pay. A guy like Moss you try to keep a double team on as much as you can. He can still burn you in single coverage on sheer athleticism alone.

Don't forget we've also got Donte Stallworth who can stretch it deep. It's not going to be easy defending the Pats receivers this year.

Yup. He can change a game without making a single catch. I haven't watched Stallworth teams that often, but he's going to have the chance to be up against our opponents' number 2 or 3 deep cover guys all game long.

Moss opens everything up.

 

[Mack Herron]

I would have preferred to see Stallworth attend the mini camp to get into the system with Brady. We learned last year that it takes a while to learn everything.

 

[PromisedLand]

Culpepper had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs in a season Moss had 767 yards and 13 TDs and missed 3 games and didn't have a catch in two others. Let's not overstate the importance of Moss to Culpepper. Culpepper before he tore apart his knee was an above average QB. He had a horrible season at the start of 2005 because they decided to scrap Scott Linehan's vertical offense when he left to use a more quick release offense that didn't suite Culpepper's strengths.

Question: How do you account for the yards and touchdowns other guys caught because the defense was focused on stopping Moss?

Answer: You can't, which is why the statistics you quoted are meaningless.

 

[ajackson]

Culpepper had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs in a season Moss had 767 yards and 13 TDs and missed 3 games and didn't have a catch in two others. Let's not overstate the importance of Moss to Culpepper. Culpepper before he tore apart his knee was an above average QB. He had a horrible season at the start of 2005 because they decided to scrap Scott Linehan's vertical offense when he left to use a more quick release offense that didn't suite Culpepper's strengths.

Those numbers can be deceiving. First off Culpepper threw 18 TD's his first 5 games.

Randy Moss had 404 yards & EIGHT TD's before being injured in the first quarter of game 5.

The Vikings average 31 points in the first 5 games.

Randy Moss played in 2 snaps in game 6 & 5 snaps in game 7. He then completely sat out the next 3 games.

Culpepper in those 5 games threw 9 TD's & the Vikings averaged 21.4 points.

The Vikings didn't change the offense at all when Linehan left. The promoted the offensive line coach, who was the best friend of Linehan & hired the same year in 02'.

The same with Dolphins. Mularkey was forced to use the same system Linehan used & keep the same terminology.

This isn't to say Moss made Culpepper but he covered a ton of warts.

 

[ajackson]

Simple.

From a degregation of talent standpoint, I am more concerned about his injuries over the last few years rather than his age. He had a foot injury in Minnesotta that was rumored to be a significant reason why they traded him because of the long term effects. He was hampered with groin and other injuries in Oakland. Sometimes these things are reversable and other times these linger on for the rest of the player's career. We will have to wait and see which one it is for Moss.

I am also concerned about his ability to pick up the offense. What Tom Walsh said in Borges article did concern me about his ability to learn new things. Part of it might have been sour grapes, but I don't know if all of it was. He has never done a lot of the things we are going to ask him to do here and this is a complicated offense to learn and not just for morons like Donald Hayes.

I said when we got him that if Moss gives us one or two big plays a game, we got our money's worth. But I still am not as confident as a lot of people that he will return to close to his 2003 and before form.

Your not getting the guy from Minny from 98'-03.

Your getting the player from 04-05 Moss. That guy will be more then fine.

In both years he was off to terrific starts only to be injured in game 5 both years.

He had 26 grabs for 404 yards & 8 TD's in 4 games & one quarter in 04. 13 TD's in essentially 11 games.

He had 19 grabs for 466 yards 3 TD's in 4 games & one quarter in 05 with the Raiders.

This is the guy that will show up.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Those numbers can be deceiving. First off Culpepper threw 18 TD's his first 5 games.

Randy Moss had 404 yards & EIGHT TD's before being injured in the first quarter of game 5.

The Vikings average 31 points in the first 5 games.

Randy Moss played in 2 snaps in game 6 & 5 snaps in game 7. He then completely sat out the next 3 games.

Culpepper in those 5 games threw 9 TD's & the Vikings averaged 21.4 points.

The Vikings didn't change the offense at all when Linehan left. The promoted the offensive line coach, who was the best friend of Linehan & hired the same year in 02'.

The same with Dolphins. Mularkey was forced to use the same system Linehan used & keep the same terminology.

This isn't to say Moss made Culpepper but he covered a ton of warts.

Chokepepper played in about the worst defensive division in football, with the exception of the Bears, who never field any offense. For years, I watched him consistently bumble around whenever he was under pressure. Regardless of the stats he generated with or without Moss, he is a guy that fails when the game is on the line. Even with Moss, it was one or two big plays to start a game and then a slow decline into fumble-bumbleville for the next 58 minutes.

Lord knows we tried letting the Dolphin trolls in on this fact last year.....

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Put this under the heading of: Grasping at Straws. Aqua boy, is this the same PFW, which "ranked" the Pats LEAST likely to appear in the Superbowl in the next 5 years in the spring of 2001

And shouldn't the fact that Welker wasn't listed give you hint at how "comprehensive" that ranking was? Lists like those are the jobs at magazines that interns get assigned.

Keep on "grasping at straws" Aquaboy, I'm sure they will ease the pain of ANOTHER season without sniffing a playoff game for the ONCE mighty Dolphins.....oh yeah, I forgot....

Well I wasn't a reader in 2001, but wow, seems like that were way off there. I just think they are looking at your WRs realistically instead of imphatically like most Pats fans are. The truth is Moss is on the decline, he's an attitude problem and only plays when he wants to. The truth on Stallworth is he is extremelly injury prone and only runs deep routes. The truth on Welker is that he's slow and shows no value beyond 10 yards or in the red zone.

Yes it could be a very solid season for the NE receivers, but there is also a good chance that they are being enormously over rated.

Don't turn the attention to the Dolphins, I was simply quoting a magazine and this thread has nothing to do with Miami. That's the first good sign of immediate self defenes, counter accusations.

 

[zippo59]

Well I wasn't a reader in 2001, but wow, seems like that were way off there. I just think they are looking at your WRs realistically instead of imphatically like most Pats fans are. The truth is Moss is on the decline, he's an attitude problem and only plays when he wants to. The truth on Stallworth is he is extremelly injury prone and only runs deep routes. The truth on Welker is that he's slow and shows no value beyond 10 yards or in the red zone.

Yes it could be a very solid season for the NE receivers, but there is also a good chance that they are being enormously over rated.

Don't turn the attention to the Dolphins, I was simply quoting a magazine and this thread has nothing to do with Miami. That's the first good sign of immediate self defenes, counter accusations.

You're not just quoting a magazine, you are interjecting your personal opinion.

That is fine, but I question the jugement when it comes to wide receivers of someone who thinks that Chris Chambers is the best wide receiver in the AFC East.

 

[Rob0729]

Question: How do you account for the yards and touchdowns other guys caught because the defense was focused on stopping Moss?

Answer: You can't, which is why the statistics you quoted are meaningless.

What a BS response. Culpepper threw for nearly 4,000 yards and 26 TDs to other players and it was all because of Moss who either didn't play or have a catch in nearly a third of a season and was hobbled for most of the second half of the season he played.

Culpepper had an League MVP caliber season and Moss had his second worse season of his career. Culpepper's performance that year makes him tied for fifth in TDs and sixth in passing yards ALL TIME in a single season in NFL history and Moss wasn't even in the top forty in receiving yards that season although fifth in TDs.

If Moss was so instrumental in Culpepper having in a career year, why did he have his second worse. The arguement doesn't fly. Culpepper has a season that few QBs, even Brady, have ever had and Moss has his worse, but Culpepper's year was because of Moss.

If Culpepper had a very good season, you can argue Moss played a big role. But Culpepper had an MVP, Hall of Fame type of season. A season he has never had before.

 

[Rob0729]

Those numbers can be deceiving. First off Culpepper threw 18 TD's his first 5 games.

Randy Moss had 404 yards & EIGHT TD's before being injured in the first quarter of game 5.

The Vikings average 31 points in the first 5 games.

Randy Moss played in 2 snaps in game 6 & 5 snaps in game 7. He then completely sat out the next 3 games.

Culpepper in those 5 games threw 9 TD's & the Vikings averaged 21.4 points.

The Vikings didn't change the offense at all when Linehan left. The promoted the offensive line coach, who was the best friend of Linehan & hired the same year in 02'.

The same with Dolphins. Mularkey was forced to use the same system Linehan used & keep the same terminology.

This isn't to say Moss made Culpepper but he covered a ton of warts.

So Culpepper had 21 TDs in the last 11 games. That is an average of almost two TDs a game. That is far better than most QBs. week 10 he had 363 yards and 4 TDs with Moss in street clothes.

In the first game vs. Dallas, Moss had four catches for 27 yards and two TDs. Culpepper spread the ball around to 9 different receivers (none had more than 63 yards) for 243 yards and 5 TDs. When Brady does that, he is amazing. When Culpepper does it, it is because of Moss.

Against Philly week 2, Moss had 8 catches for 69 yards and a TD. Culpepper hit eight different receivers for 343 yards and a TD.

Week three was really the only Moss like performance with 119 yards and 2 TDs. Culpepper had 360 yards and 2 TDs (all Moss')

In week 5, Culpepper had 396 yards and 5 TDs and hit eight different receivers again, but Marcus Robinson was the star of that game with 9 catches for 150 yards and 2 TDs. Moss had a good game with 90 yards and 2 TDs, but he was tied for second in yards and was third in number of receptions.

Against New Orleans, Moss only had two catches but both were big plays for over 40 yards and one TD. The star of that game was Burelson with 6 catches for 134 yards. Moss was fifth in receptions in that game. Both Marcus Robinson and Jermain Wiggins had more TDs (2) than Moss (1). Culpepper still had 424 yards with 26 completions and 5 TDs.

Culpepper did an excellent job spreading the ball around and not overrelying on Moss. Moss drawing double teams had some to do with it, but any above average primary WR will draw the double team a lot. Moss did contribute a lot to the TDs though.

Of course they changed the offense when Linehan left. They went from a vertical offense where Culpepper ran around in the backfield until players got open to a quick read offense. Culpepper was lost because of it because he is all brawn over brains. It was clearly a major change in the offense that killed Culpepper because he is a dumb QB with an amazing arm and a LB body. Just because they promoted the o-line coach doesn't mean they kept the philosophy.

 

[ajackson]

So Culpepper had 21 TDs in the last 11 games. That is an average of almost two TDs a game. That is far better than most QBs. week 10 he had 363 yards and 4 TDs with Moss in street clothes.

In the first game vs. Dallas, Moss had four catches for 27 yards and two TDs. Culpepper spread the ball around to 9 different receivers (none had more than 63 yards) for 243 yards and 5 TDs. When Brady does that, he is amazing. When Culpepper does it, it is because of Moss.

Against Philly week 2, Moss had 8 catches for 69 yards and a TD. Culpepper hit eight different receivers for 343 yards and a TD.

Week three was really the only Moss like performance with 119 yards and 2 TDs. Culpepper had 360 yards and 2 TDs (all Moss')

In week 5, Culpepper had 396 yards and 5 TDs and hit eight different receivers again, but Marcus Robinson was the star of that game with 9 catches for 150 yards and 2 TDs. Moss had a good game with 90 yards and 2 TDs, but he was tied for second in yards and was third in number of receptions.

Against New Orleans, Moss only had two catches but both were big plays for over 40 yards and one TD. The star of that game was Burelson with 6 catches for 134 yards. Moss was fifth in receptions in that game. Both Marcus Robinson and Jermain Wiggins had more TDs (2) than Moss (1). Culpepper still had 424 yards with 26 completions and 5 TDs.

Culpepper did an excellent job spreading the ball around and not overrelying on Moss. Moss drawing double teams had some to do with it, but any above average primary WR will draw the double team a lot. Moss did contribute a lot to the TDs though.

Of course they changed the offense when Linehan left. They went from a vertical offense where Culpepper ran around in the backfield until players got open to a quick read offense. Culpepper was lost because of it because he is all brawn over brains. It was clearly a major change in the offense that killed Culpepper because he is a dumb QB with an amazing arm and a LB body. Just because they promoted the o-line coach doesn't mean they kept the philosophy.

Don't make excuses for Culpepper. They kept the SAME exact OFFENSE with the EXACT verbage.

Here is the thing with Culpepper & go ask any objective Culpepper fan.

He was only average at reading coverage. He would either throw the bomb or a throw a check down before going thru all of his reads. Culpepper gets distracted by heavy safety movement before the snap.

You can play games with your safeties & he will just check the ball down or he would heave it to Moss in a lot of situations. Linehan did help him though.

I thought Linehan did a wonderful job of basically either throwing the ball to Moss or have him run off the coverage & have Culpepper throw the ball underneath. He limited Culpepper's reads.

The Vikings during Linehan's years & especailly in 04' thru a TON of screens to the backs & wide out.

Everything the Vikings did offensively involved Moss one way or another. Especailly dictating coverage with the secondary & linebackers in long yardage situations.

Teams had an offseason to dissect those games without Moss going into 05' & Culpepper was just putrid.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

You're not just quoting a magazine, you are interjecting your personal opinion.

That is fine, but I question the jugement when it comes to wide receivers of someone who thinks that Chris Chambers is the best wide receiver in the AFC East.

I didn't say that. There are some good WRs in the AFCE. Coles, Evans, Chambers potentially Moss and Stallworth are all pretty good players. Chambers was the best in 2005 and could be in 2007 again but that won't be known for a while. You guys talk a lot about Moss' QB situation in Oakland, well look at the crap Chambers has had to deal with.

 

[Rob0729]

Don't make excuses for Culpepper. They kept the SAME exact OFFENSE with the EXACT verbage.

Here is the thing with Culpepper & go ask any objective Culpepper fan.

He was only average at reading coverage. He would either throw the bomb or a throw a check down before going thru all of his reads. Culpepper gets distracted by heavy safety movement before the snap.

You can play games with your safeties & he will just check the ball down or he would heave it to Moss in a lot of situations. Linehan did help him though.

I thought Linehan did a wonderful job of basically either throwing the ball to Moss or have him run off the coverage & have Culpepper throw the ball underneath. He limited Culpepper's reads.

The Vikings during Linehan's years & especailly in 04' thru a TON of screens to the backs & wide out.

Everything the Vikings did offensively involved Moss one way or another. Especailly dictating coverage with the secondary & linebackers in long yardage situations.

Teams had an offseason to dissect those games without Moss going into 05' & Culpepper was just putrid.

Why would I make excuses for Culpepper when I called the guy a dumb QB with all brawn over brains.

The Vikings did change their offensive philosophy, but I may be putting too much on the change of OCs. A large part of it was the loss of Matt Birk and the degregation of the offensive line. Culpepper used to have all the time in the world, but he was under pressure a lot forcing the Vikes to go a quicker passing game.

 

[Rob0729]

I didn't say that. There are some good WRs in the AFCE. Coles, Evans, Chambers potentially Moss and Stallworth are all pretty good players. Chambers was the best in 2005 and could be in 2007 again but that won't be known for a while. You guys talk a lot about Moss' QB situation in Oakland, well look at the crap Chambers has had to deal with.

Chambers is waaaaaay overrated. He was average in 2005 except for like a three game stretch. You take away those three games and he had similiar or even worse numbers than Deion Branch. Chambers has always been a guy who can put up 200 yards in a game and then go a month without cracking 50 yards. He had 460 yards in a three game stretch in 2005 (or 153.3 YPG) and 658 the other 13 games (or 50.6 YPG). If it wasn't for an abnormal 238 yard game vs. Buffalo that year, Chambers would't have cracked 1,000 yards.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Chambers is waaaaaay overrated. He was average in 2005 except for like a three game stretch. You take away those three games and he had similiar or even worse numbers than Deion Branch. Chambers has always been a guy who can put up 200 yards in a game and then go a month without cracking 50 yards. He had 460 yards in a three game stretch in 2005 (or 153.3 YPG) and 658 the other 13 games (or 50.6 YPG). If it wasn't for an abnormal 238 yard game vs. Buffalo that year, Chambers would't have cracked 1,000 yards.

Okay well you do get 16 games and taking away those 3 games is nearly 20%. It doesn't seem fair to me to remove someones best games. And it was also more then 3, he had the following totals.

Carolina- 6, 93 1 TD
NE- 6, 69 2 TDs
Oak- 6, 101
Buffalo- 15, 238 game winning TD
San Diego- 8, 121, 2 TDs
Tennessee- 5, 51 2 TDs

Those are all games that he played very well in. And why do you want to take away that Buffalo game from him? That was the best performance by any NFL player that year and I think he should be praised rather than trying to illude the idea.

 

[patriotspride]

Okay well you do get 16 games and taking away those 3 games is nearly 20%. It doesn't seem fair to me to remove someones best games. And it was also more then 3, he had the following totals.

Carolina- 6, 93 1 TD
NE- 6, 69 2 TDs
Oak- 6, 101
Buffalo- 15, 238 game winning TD
San Diego- 8, 121, 2 TDs
Tennessee- 5, 51 2 TDs

Those are all games that he played very well in. And why do you want to take away that Buffalo game from him? That was the best performance by any NFL player that year and I think he should be praised rather than trying to illude the idea.

pay your lost bets clown

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Well I wasn't a reader in 2001, but wow, seems like that were way off there. I just think they are looking at your WRs realistically instead of imphatically like most Pats fans are. The truth is Moss is on the decline, he's an attitude problem and only plays when he wants to. The truth on Stallworth is he is extremelly injury prone and only runs deep routes. The truth on Welker is that he's slow and shows no value beyond 10 yards or in the red zone.

Yes it could be a very solid season for the NE receivers, but there is also a good chance that they are being enormously over rated.

Don't turn the attention to the Dolphins, I was simply quoting a magazine and this thread has nothing to do with Miami. That's the first good sign of immediate self defenes, counter accusations.

Even for the lowly fanboy standards of 18 year old Aguaboy, just barely out of diapers, this is a ******ed post.

 

[LaBrady]

pay your lost bets clown

What is this bet that aquaboy didn't pay up on? It's quite funny though cause every time he posts something, there is someone to remind him of that bet.