How good are these young CB’s?

[VectorPrime]

I’m almost more upset at Dukes Dawson being hurt than Isaiah Wynn.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, it is too many. Yes, Mis a safety, but he is also emergency backup at corner, say the SIXTH corner.

IMHO, we don't need Crossen AND Dawson AND Jackson as backups. Absent injury, the top 3 will get all the reps.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Only reason I remember is a buddy on mine said he had a big game vs BAL when at the time our pass D was being shredded.

Ugh it figures keep in Mind Richards was kept over him i know safety vs corner but

 

[maineman209]

IMHO, it is too many. Yes, Mis a safety, but he is also emergency backup at corner, say the SIXTH corner.

IMHO, we don't need Crossen AND Dawson AND Jackson as backups. Absent injury, the top 3 will get all the reps.

Well, including JMac (but not Ebner), the Pats have four safeties. The fact that JMac (and DMac) can also backup CB is merely a bonus.

I'm considering Crossen as ST-ONLY for 2018, Meaning that there are 5 CBs on the roster. Dawson is currently dinged up, and Rowe has a habit of spending half the season in the tub. I don't see this as "too many" at all.

 

[JackBauer]

Crossen has elite athleticism beyond speed. He's also already and excellent tackler and he appears to be very quick to correctly diagnose plays and to provide excellent run support. His floor is probably premier special-teamer. With Slater on the wrong side of 30 and Ebner turning 30 later this season, that alone provides significant team value.

I agree, though, that he needs a lot of instruction on coverage technique. OTOH, even there, he appeared to improve a bit over the course of Camp. If he develops into another JJ, he'll have been well worth keeping.

I'm just hoping that he continues to stick through the next few days of roster churn.

I made this observation after watching preseason games on a Reddit stream so I could be totally wrong.

What stood out to me about Crossen is his frame. He’s top heavy, physically imposing, like a safety, but with elite athleticism.

Keion Crossen

Look at that neck! Seriously, though, I don’t know what his ceiling is but I think he’s going to be a badass at whatever he does.

 

[maineman209]

I made this observation after watching preseason games on a Reddit stream so I could be totally wrong.

What stood out to me about Crossen is his frame. He’s top heavy, physically imposing, like a safety, but with elite athleticism.

Keion Crossen

Look at that neck! Seriously, though, I don’t know what his ceiling is but I think he’s going to be a badass at whatever he does.

Impressive tackler for a guy who's 5091/~180 because he already has excellent technique.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IMHO, it is too many. Yes, Mis a safety, but he is also emergency backup at corner, say the SIXTH corner.

IMHO, we don't need Crossen AND Dawson AND Jackson as backups. Absent injury, the top 3 will get all the reps.

You know this team will play 80% of it's snaps in a nickel or dime D. Since Rowe is not durable- but good and JMc can play S and CB it does make sense to keep this #.

Plus I think this roster is far from being complete. Figure 4-5 more new faces between now and January which means the same # of subtractions (trades, cuts, IR)

 

[BelichickFan]

IMHO, it is too many.

There's no such thing as long as you can make the roster work. We'll get plenty of CB on the field, not to mention that Jones missed a lot of time last year and Rowe not only played hurt a lot last year but is a UFA at the end of the year. We had Edelman as a starting CB in the AFCCG in 2011 and ran out of CB last year. There's a ton of ST snaps for these guys, we need to keep talent when we find it.

Would you keep Bolden over Jackson? I wouldn't.

(now watch Bill cut Jackson to re-sign Bolden)

 

[Ring 6]

IMHO, it is too many. Yes, Mis a safety, but he is also emergency backup at corner, say the SIXTH corner.

IMHO, we don't need Crossen AND Dawson AND Jackson as backups. Absent injury, the top 3 will get all the reps.

At least 1 and maybe 2 will be inactive and the actives 1 or 2 will be playing special teams.

 

[maineman209]

Were you referring to Cy Jones? Jon Jones was in every game last season. He was the #1 sub for Rowe.

 

[Angelpats]

IMHO, it is too many. Yes, Mis a safety, but he is also emergency backup at corner, say the SIXTH corner.

IMHO, we don't need Crossen AND Dawson AND Jackson as backups. Absent injury, the top 3 will get all the reps.

Haven’t seen enough of Dawson but I see the potential in Crossen and Jackson. I see them being starters eventually and with jmac likely gone next year and Rowe always dinged up you can’t underestimate how valuable they can be.

We had a rookie last year, Kenny Moore I think, who was let go and became the best dB on the team that picked him up. We have had others that are going really well too. Having top flight dbs on rookie contracts is so important in this league. You give these guys a chance. It’s a lot like Butler, even after pick 6 super bowl win and pro bowl level play the following year people still ragged on him, people didn’t appreciate him till we lost the bowl.

 

[ivanvamp]

It does matter. If you fill a need through the draft, you fill that need for 4 or 5 seasons at a minimal cost. Filling it via FA or trade costs more and usually addresses the need for a season or two.

Over the years, one narrative is the Patriots dynasty stands out because it occurred in the free agency era. You lose players through free agency, but it also gives you an avenue to acquire players that previous dynasties didn’t have.

There’s usually no shortage of good players who for one reason or another are looking to rebuild their careers. Over time, the Patriots have become a primo location for those players to come. That flow of talent has overcome the draft mistakes.

Free agency has made it harder to build a dynasty but made it easier to sustain one once built. It’s still better to not blow so many 2nd rounders however.

I agree, but the Patriots always manage to acquire players from every way imaginable, and they always manage the cap well, and always put together a great team. Some of those players are draft picks. Some are UDFAs. Some are free agents. Some are acquired by trades. Obviously you can't really stock your entire team with pure free agents, because you're right, the cost will be prohibitive. Fortunately, the Pats do it all sorts of ways, and every year they do it well.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yep.

Plus I'm a believer in the difference in "track fast" and "football fast"

It's early but Jackson seems football fast to me.

Bentley is football fast.

Jerry Rice is a perfect example of this. I don't think he ever put up a 40 time faster than 4.55, but on the field he played MUCH faster than that.

I see the same thing in Bentley. He seems pretty fast to me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jerry Rice is a perfect example of this. I don't think he ever put up a 40 time faster than 4.55, but on the field he played MUCH faster than that.

I see the same thing in Bentley. He seems pretty fast to me.

Bentley shocked the hell out of me how quick to the ball he is. Not sure how good he'll be in space but he seemed better than Roberts.

 

[maineman209]

I see the same thing in Bentley. He seems pretty fast to me.

Bentley shocked the hell out of me how quick to the ball he is.

It's mostly about how quickly and accurately he can process what the offense is trying to do and how quickly he can react. Anticipation, instinct.

Butler didn't have a great 40-time or 3-cone time, but his read-and-react instincts were elite.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's mostly about how quickly and accurately he can process what the offense is trying to do and how quickly he can react. Anticipation, instinct.

Butler didn't have a great 40-time or 3-cone time, but his read-and-react instincts were elite.

I know they are going to play 4-2-5 75% + of the time but if they need to go a heavy 4-3 hes perfect on the inside.

 

[maineman209]

Haven’t seen enough of Dawson but I see the potential in Crossen and Jackson. I see them being starters eventually and with jmac likely gone next year and Rowe always dinged up you can’t underestimate how valuable they can be.

We had a rookie last year, Kenny Moore I think, who was let go and became the best dB on the team that picked him up. We have had others that are going really well too. Having top flight dbs on rookie contracts is so important in this league. You give these guys a chance. It’s a lot like Butler, even after pick 6 super bowl win and pro bowl level play the following year people still ragged on him, people didn’t appreciate him till we lost the bowl.

In 2017, Butler didn't really play his assignments up to his previous standards very often at all, in either the regular season, or the post-season. Personally, I think part of that may have been from him trying too hard to help compensate for the truly awful run-D that the Pats were forced into putting on the field (for lack of capable front-six personnel). There were simply too many other major and unfixable issues with the defense last season for Butler's presence by itself to have made the difference in the Superbowl.

If you put this current (Butler-less) defense on the field against that same Eagles team, the Pats might have won by 33-24 or better.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

In 2017, Butler didn't really play his assignments up to his previous standards very often at all, in either the regular season, or the post-season. Personally, I think part of that may have been from him trying too hard to help compensate for the truly awful run-D that the Pats were forced into putting on the field (for lack of capable front-six personnel). There were simply too many other major and unfixable issues with the defense last season for Butler's presence by itself to have made the difference in the Superbowl.

If you put this current (Butler-less) defense on the field against that same Eagles team, the Pats might have won by 33-24 or better.

I agree. This is an excellent point. Our front seven were terrible last season, especially on the edges. Maybe that is why bb has ten edge guys on the roster this year.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I’m almost more upset at Dukes Dawson being hurt than Isaiah Wynn.

Considering the amount of second rounders at CB that have failed here. We will see what Dawson brings to the table. First get on the field.

 

[Joey007]

Were you referring to Cy Jones? Jon Jones was in every game last season. He was the #1 sub for Rowe.

No I’m referring to Jon. I still count him as a young CB.