How could the front 7 look next year

[strngplyr]

I don't understand what your attempted insult toward me means. Maybe you can explain.
Not sure how that comment from Saban that you highlighted says he won't play OLB.


By the way the question to Saban was can he play 34 OLB, and the answer started with no doubt.
I'm not sure why you are implying Saban would lie.

I do think he can play OLB, but I could see a coach easily lying, or hyping a player, in hopes of helping him get drafted higher, which should make him happy if he cares about his players, but more importantly, makes him look like a better coach and will attract more recruits because "Hey, I just got 4 of my guys taken in the 1st round".

 

[Ring 6]

I do think he can play OLB, but I could see a coach easily lying, or hyping a player, in hopes of helping him get drafted higher, which should make him happy if he cares about his players, but more importantly, makes him look like a better coach and will attract more recruits because "Hey, I just got 4 of my guys taken in the 1st round".

Do you seriously think a coach is going to lie to a reporter writing an article and expect that will help draft stock?
I mean, seriously, anyone thinking about drafting him will speak directly to Saban, not read the Dallas paper and decide based on that interview to draft a guy higher than they would have. Thats silly.
I understand your questioning of Saban's integrity, but it is misplaced.

 

[strngplyr]

Do you seriously think a coach is going to lie to a reporter writing an article and expect that will help draft stock?
I mean, seriously, anyone thinking about drafting him will speak directly to Saban, not read the Dallas paper and decide based on that interview to draft a guy higher than they would have. Thats silly.
I understand your questioning of Saban's integrity, but it is misplaced.

I wasn't really questioning his integrity, I'm just saying that i can see any coach talk up their player in order to help his stock, to both a HC and the media.

 

[VrabelJr]

Why would we play Hightower at Strongside LB? It's a position he can play but clearly ILB/MLB is his first position. ****, I guess we could play Mayo at SLB too!

Not to mention, Ninkovich was a great starter at Strongside LB last year. BB is not the type of coach to put a great ILB at OLB or DE just because that player can play that position. With the drafting of Hightower, Spikes has become a depth guy.

Again, this isn't a matter of Hightower lacking the ability to play Strongside LB or DE. It's a matter of already having people on the roster that are better at those positions.

 

[JackBauer]

Bedard has Hightower at SLB over Ninkovich. Trevor Scott and Jones opposite in the elephant. Spikes SILB/Mayo WILB.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't really questioning his integrity, I'm just saying that i can see any coach talk up their player in order to help his stock, to both a HC and the media.

I don't really have a problem with you questioning his integrity. I have a bigger problem with the concept that he would be untruthful with a writer in an interview that would have no influence on anyone.

 

[Ring 6]

Why would we play Hightower at Strongside LB? It's a position he can play but clearly ILB/MLB is his first position. ****, I guess we could play Mayo at SLB too!

Mayo is an ILB. He is 240 lbs. They are completely different players.
You are really the only one posting in this thread that thinks Hightower is better inside.
We don't play SOLB and WOLB in our 34, we play LOLB and ROLB.

Not to mention, Ninkovich was a great starter at Strongside LB last year

You have got to be kidding me with GREAT. Ninkovich had a decent year, but great is a ridiculous overstatement.

. BB is not the type of coach to put a great ILB at OLB or DE just because that player can play that position. With the drafting of Hightower, Spikes has become a depth guy.

No he puts players where they are best. In Hoightowers case that will be OLB. He is actually a perfect outside in our system.

Again, this isn't a matter of Hightower lacking the ability to play Strongside LB or DE. It's a matter of already having people on the roster that are better at those positions.

WHAT??????????????? You think Ninkovich and ??? are better than Mayo and Spikes?
You are talking in circles now.

I deleted the silly dog from my response because I have no clue what point it serves.

Please clarify though.
Is Hightower inside because:
1) He has fantastic (rare) sideline to sideline speed (refuted by scouting reports)
2) He lacks quick twitch movement (refuted by scouting reports)
3) He is better inside (contradicted by your own words)
4) We have better players outside than inside (refuted by common sense)

You keep changing the reasoning but stick to the conclusion, and I'm having a hard time keeping track. Which one are we using now?

 

[Ring 6]

Bedard has Hightower at SLB over Ninkovich. Trevor Scott and Jones opposite in the elephant. Spikes SILB/Mayo WILB.

I think in a base 34 Cunningham comes into play as one of the OLBs.
That was his role as a rookie, playing in the base, not playing in sub.
I''m not super confident that Scott or Jones are the best option to play in the base, at least at the start of the season, and with the important roles they play a rotation is good to have too.
I'm good with Hightower-Mayo-Spikes but I think the 4th is up in the air, as is whether Hightower stays in consistently in sub, or where.

 

[JimJohns]

I think in a base 34 Cunningham comes into play as one of the OLBs.
That was his role as a rookie, playing in the base, not playing in sub.
I''m not super confident that Scott or Jones are the best option to play in the base, at least at the start of the season, and with the important roles they play a rotation is good to have too.
I'm good with Hightower-Mayo-Spikes but I think the 4th is up in the air, as is whether Hightower stays in consistently in sub, or where.

Seriously? Jermaine Cunningham? Were we watching the same dude the past two years? Unless he completely transformed this off season I'm for starting Jones over a dude who got out muscled by Mark freakin' Sanchez of all people.

 

[manxman2601]

Just re-watching Hightower vids. Some thoughts:

1. When on the edge, Hightower is almost always effective. He might not always get to the QB, but he invariably pushes the opposing tackle back into the pocket. He's a very smart outside rusher. He'll fake the OT to the outside and then quickly switches his attack to the OT's inside shoulder and often wins. When he gets a path to the QB, he gets their quickly and with incredible power.

2. For me the reason he's best suited outside is his ability to contain the outside. He rarely gets beaten around the corner taking the right angle to get to the runner. i'm not quite as sold on him inside although I still like him. He does from time to time sell out on the wrong hole.

3. I don't think he'll be used exclusively inside or out. I truly don't believe that BB is drafting people to be three down starters at one position anymore. I think he sees the defense as an interchangeable machine with cogs being switched as he sees fit. Hightower's versatility is perfect for that system.

Finally, I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Have a look at the play at 1:28 from the Alabama/ Arkansas video. Joe Adams completely fakes Hightower out. Not hightower's finest moment although it's more about Adams' outstanding skill than a weakness of hightower:

Dont'a Hightower vs Arkansas 2011 - YouTube

 

[Marqui]

1. When on the edge, Hightower is almost always effective. He might not always get to the QB, but he invariably pushes the opposing tackle back into the pocket. He's a very smart outside rusher. He'll fake the OT to the outside and then quickly switches his attack to the OT's inside shoulder and often wins. When he gets a path to the QB, he gets their quickly and with incredible power.

When Hightower plays 3-4 OLB here he should model his game after Terrell Suggs. Suggs doesn't have elite speed either, but he's one of the strongest OLBs is the league which allows him to be dominant against the run. And even though he's not a speed demon rushing the passer, he still can get to the quarterback by being a savvy rusher faking out OTs by changing directions and actively using his hands well. If Hightower turns out to be anything like Suggs the way I think he can this will be a great pick.

 

[BBass]

Looking for opinions. Does anyone think that Jake Bequette could play LDE in a 3-4 hybrid scheme?

LDE - Bequette
NT - Brace/Love
RDE - Wilfolk
Elephant ROLB - Jones

LOLB - Hightower
SILB - Spikes
WILB - Mayo

He is 6'4 1/2 and close to 280lbs and considered strong against the run.

Thoughts??

 

[Fencer]

Bumping to say that my current thinking starts, much as in the post right above:

• Hightower/Spikes/Mayo as true LBs.
• Ninkovich not in the base because his reps need to be cut overall and he now takes them in the sub package.
• Wilfork and 2 other guys as 3-4 kinds of DL
• Jones or another pure pass rusher in an elephant slot, most commonly on the right.

 

[BTTA]

We need to expect Wilfork to fade by then, and for two of this group to emerge with most of the playing time as big DL:

Love, Pryor, Forston, signed FA, drafted player.

The outside players and LB should be set.

 

[mayoclinic]

Bumping to say that my current thinking starts, much as in the post right above:

• Hightower/Spikes/Mayo as true LBs.
• Ninkovich not in the base because his reps need to be cut overall and he now takes them in the sub package.
• Wilfork and 2 other guys as 3-4 kinds of DL
• Jones or another pure pass rusher in an elephant slot, most commonly on the right.

Fox Sports' Alex Marvez picks Brandon Spikes as his "breakout" player for the Pats:

After being sidelined for seven games last season with a sprained knee, Spikes began to blossom in the playoffs. He had 26 tackles, an interception and a forced fumble in three playoff games, including 11 stops in Super Bowl XLVI against the New York Giants. Spikes should be even more effective in his third NFL season. He also will receive additional help with the Patriots augmenting their front seven with the first-round selections of end Chandler Jones and outside linebacker Dont’a Hightower.

NFL players poised for breakout seasons in 2012

Mike Reiss' commentary:

It's hard to argue with Marvez's choice, simply based on Super Bowl XLVI. Spikes was arguably the team's best defender in that game. Here are two thoughts on Spikes:

Staying on the field. Spikes has played in 20 of a possible 32 regular-season games over his first two seasons, missing time because of a 2010 suspension and 2011 knee injury. He also missed most of training camp last year, and one sensed some frustration with his situation. When Bill Belichick was asked about Spikes' work later in the season, when it looked like Spikes was coming on, he referenced how it was just good that Spikes was back on the field working with the club. To take the next step in his career, Spikes needs some good fortune to avoid injuries, while also fully committing himself to put him in the best position to succeed. Belichick values consistency and Spikes has been a bit up and down to this point.

Sub packages. One aspect of Spikes' game that bears watching is his presence in sub packages. When utilized in that role earlier in the 2011 season, such as the Oct. 30 game against the Steelers, the Patriots were hurt in the short- to intermediate passing game in the middle of the field. The Steelers seemed to be targeting Spikes at times. But when Spikes returned from injury late in the season, and he stayed on the field in sub, the results seemed to be a bit better. Some might view Spikes as a Ted Johnson-type early-down run-stuffer, but Spikes has shown flashes he can be more.

Spikes eyed as breakout performer - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

With Dont'a Hightower on board I don't particular see Spikes playing a lot in sub packages. It will be interesting to see how BB uses the LB personnel. But Spikes clearly has terrific instincts and a hard-nosed style that helps the defense. It would for him to make a leap to being an impact performer on a consistent basis.

 

[borg]

High football IQ and size....the two qualities that compelled BB to go get him. His size, when compared to traditional ILBs, leads me to believe he will eventually have an expanded role closer to the LOS.....maybe the 1st obstacle a TE must deal with. Hightower may continue on with the TE for the entirety of the play or release at the line and attack the QB. He provides options....unlike Spikes whose coverage is suspect.
Mayo and Spikes represent trusted In the Box tacklers. They should limit the big play. I think Hightower may evolve into the guy that produces the big play on defense.
Over the next couple years, I think this D will become a force and it will be a pleasure to watch them shut down offenses. Both the Jets and Miami will pound on the ground....and the Pats are well equipped. Buffalo will be the challenge...legit RB and a coach not afraid to chuck it. Of all the divisional games, I would circle up Buffalo as must see

 

[mayoclinic]

Pats' Pulpit looks at the defensive front 7:

Predicting The Patriots Front-Seven Defensive Schemes - Pats Pulpit

Meh. First, I don't think it's 3-4 vs. 4-3. It may start out that way, but as the newbies develop I think the Pats will move towards a hybrid that fuses both, as BB has done in the past. Second, with 5 DBs on the field 70% of the time, it's going to be a front 6 much more of the time than a front 7, which is one of the reasons for a hybrid approach that provides more flexibility.

As with the offense, a lot will depend on how the new personnel develop. This is a pretty conservative approach, and BB tends to be conservative about pushing things too fast. But he's also shown that if players develop quickly enough that he will make changes more aggressively.

 

[mayoclinic]

With all the discussion about front 7 versatility, Pro Football Focus calls Rob Ninkovich a "secret superstar":

It’s a very unique skill set that allows for smooth transition from 3-4 OLB to 4-3 OLB to pass rushing defensive end, and for some players it can be a year-long process. There is no such timeframe in the Patriots’ defense and Ninkovich’s role evolved week-to-week and sometimes play-to-play. ... As the Patriots evolved, so did Ninkovich. He’s doing a job that often takes three roster spots to fill, and in a league that embraces specialists–whether pass rushers, nickel cornerbacks, or slot receivers–Ninkovich’s value has been as a jack-of-all-trades.

Secret Superstar: Rob Ninkovich, LB, New England Patriots | ProFootballFocus.com

Dane Fletcher offers similar versatility, though he hasn't developed as much as Ninko. And Dont'a Hightower should offer even more versatility, giving the Pats a lot of depth and options in addition to Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes.

 

[jah]

With all the discussion about front 7 versatility, Pro Football Focus calls Rob Ninkovich a "secret superstar":



Secret Superstar: Rob Ninkovich, LB, New England Patriots | ProFootballFocus.com

Dane Fletcher offers similar versatility, though he hasn't developed as much as Ninko. And Dont'a Hightower should offer even more versatility, giving the Pats a lot of depth and options in addition to Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes.

I agree, but still...it's PFF.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ninko has the right attitude:

Ninkovich: Linebacker competition 'a plus' - Extra Points - Boston.com

Ninko has improved dramatically each year. He's now a major contributor on defense. It will be interesting to see if the added competition and his continued growth takes him to the next level this year. That would truly be Vrabelesque.