How Can the Pats Stop the Ravens?

[BelichicksHoodie]

Watching Baltimore Monday night, I was like , ****, there's NO WAY anyone's beating them, no less the Pats and their suspect offense. Then I stepped off the reactionary cliff....

There's 5 weeks left, alot can happen...hell, someone could come into Gillette and wax the Pats division weekend -. Seen it before...also, Baltimore could lose to Buffalo division weekend, you never know...go pats

We’ll see how the Niners do. They have a great front.

 

[50-yard-line]

Agree. WC to EC sucks.

I did hear the main reason why SF/BAL was 1pm was b/c FOX and CBS alternate 430 games as the "national" game. That might be the actual reason.

Big advantage Baltimore.

 

[DaBruinz]

I said it during the Pats/Ravens Pre-Game thread. The Pats need to put a spy on Jackson. Plain and simple. And no. I don't believe that Jamie Collins is capable enough. I believe it needs to be either DMac or JMac. I think that they are the only two (other than Gilmore) who have the combination of speed, agility and discipline to stay with Jackson.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What Ravens are doing is basically the same offense as the 49'ers of 2011-2013, before they got figured out and went downhill big time in '14.

The only type of QB to stand the test of time is a pocket passer.

Good connection there with the Harbaugh brothers. We forget that Jim was a few yards away from winning a Super Bowl with a somewhat “gimmicky” offense involving Kaepernick, who set a few QB rushing records along the way.

I could understand John, after years of frustration with Flacco, just saying screw it. It probably won’t work long-term, but maybe it can work for long enough.

Jackson is a lot more mobile than Kaepernick, but Kaepernick was more accurate and could actually play decently from the pocket at times (like a lite version of Cam Newton). I think Jackson as a traditional pocket passer is like a fish out of water, but he hasn’t been tested in a long time. The major “gimmick” seems to be that both QBs need to be a threat to run the ball successfully or they won’t succeed, which as you said will not stand the test of time.

 

[Froob]

Good connection there with the Harbaugh brothers. We forget that Jim was a few yards away from winning a Super Bowl with a somewhat “gimmicky” offense involving Kaepernick, who set a few QB rushing records along the way.

I could understand John, after years of frustration with Flacco, just saying screw it. It probably won’t work long-term, but maybe it can work for long enough.

Jackson is a lot more mobile than Kaepernick, but Kaepernick was more accurate and could actually play decently from the pocket at times (like a lite version of Cam Newton). I think Jackson as a traditional pocket passer is like a fish out of water, but he hasn’t been tested in a long time. The major “gimmick” seems to be that both QBs need to be a threat to run the ball successfully or they won’t succeed, which as you said will not stand the test of time.

Jackson is smart and works really hard, he may adapt over time and become a really good pocket passer. Could transition into a Russell Wilson style.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ends need to help stop run, bat balls and contain rather then think sack. Pressure must come up the middle. Blitz off the edge and creep safety up on the opposite side. Lean on Gilmore island.

Figure out what his moves are when responding to certain blitzes and have ends adjust positioning accordingly in anticipation to trap him. Full head of steam will get us burned.

If you've watched Jackson, you'd know that he doesn't have any "set responses". It's different every time. Sometimes it's to run. Others its a sidearm pass. He has a veritable cornucopia of tricks to pull from..

The best bet is to play a 2 gap set, have the ends set to keep him inside. Spy with either DMac or JMac, and shut down his receivers with Jackson, Gilmore, and Jones.

 

[Froob]

I don't think people give Ingram enough credit, in some ways he's almost a bigger problem for us. If we were able to limit him, it'd be significantly easier to play Lamar.

He's having an incredible season and really puts that offense over the top. And average back in there and it's still a really good offense, but with Ingram it's the best in the league.

 

[Tunescribe]

Good connection there with the Harbaugh brothers. We forget that Jim was a few yards away from winning a Super Bowl with a somewhat “gimmicky” offense involving Kaepernick, who set a few QB rushing records along the way.

I could understand John, after years of frustration with Flacco, just saying screw it. It probably won’t work long-term, but maybe it can work for long enough.

Jackson is a lot more mobile than Kaepernick, but Kaepernick was more accurate and could actually play decently from the pocket at times (like a lite version of Cam Newton). I think Jackson as a traditional pocket passer is like a fish out of water, but he hasn’t been tested in a long time. The major “gimmick” seems to be that both QBs need to be a threat to run the ball successfully or they won’t succeed, which as you said will not stand the test of time.

What I've been hearing is that OC Greg Roman is the Svengali behind Jackson's success pretty much exclusively, independent of Harbaugh. Roman apparently is ripe for a head coaching job somewhere, so if he leaves it could be bad news for the Ravens and Jackson's continued development.

 

[Froob]

What I've been hearing is that OC Greg Roman is the Svengali behind Jackson's success pretty much exclusively, independent of Harbaugh. Roman apparently is ripe for a head coaching job somewhere, so if he leaves it could be bad news for the Ravens and Jackson's continued development.

Huh surprised he's only 47, I thought he was like 70. I wonder where he'd go because he has a pretty specific offense he runs. Dallas..?

 

[DaBruinz]

Let’s start with not jumping offsides on field goal attempts. God, I still get irate thinking of that play.

They didn't jump off-sides on the FG attempt. The Center committed a False Start and the Ref blew the call. That's fact.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jackson is smart and works really hard, he may adapt over time and become a really good pocket passer. Could transition into a Russell Wilson style.

Possibly. Wilson was always accurate downfield despite his height, but he has improved every year.

I’ve noticed that these mobile, inaccurate quarterbacks like Cam Newton and Josh Allen are now completing the ball at well over 60%, sometimes over 65%. The problem is that their offenses aren’t doing any better and are often just worse. It’s like the coordinator is trying to fix the problem by upping completion percentage, even though in reality they are just playing right into the defense’s hands and not moving the chains. This has also happened with guys like Eli Manning, whose completion pct skyrocketed despite a huge decline in actual points added.

Brady commented about completion pct not being an accurate gauge to measure a QB’s accuracy, and he’s right. Often times these analytics sites are showing that inaccurate quarterbacks are still terrible when throwing the ball 10+ air yards but just have a whole bunch of screens and dump offs to account for fake accuracy. As an example, I’ve noticed Brady is significantly better than Brees for about five years at mid-range to deep passes, but Brees keeps getting a 70%+ completion pct because of so many short passes.

It’s interesting...kind of off-topic, but just makes it difficult to even figure out accuracy anymore. We used to just look at the pct. and it would tell a lot of the story.

 

[DaBruinz]

This.

Can't allow LJ to run fwd on his RPO. He needs to be going parallel or backwards.

Thats all Dline push and shooting gaps

I agree you can't allow him to run forward, but pushing and shooting gaps plays into Jackson's abilities. We saw that with him against the Patriots..At one point or another, he dodged every one of our LBs with ease. He deeked Simon out of his shoes.. He avoided Van Noy.. Dodged Hightower. Simply outran Collins.

 

[wheresmosi]

Lol I mean, am I being given a choice here? The cheater thing is something I can deal with, and only the stupidest, assiest of holes still make cheating references about a team that has won 3 Super Bowls since any allegations of cheating. To me, it's a non-starter and outs someone as a person I can safely ignore.

As far as which narrative I prefer: that's just it-- I prefer NO narrative. I wish that we could just watch our favorite teams and that be that. The problem for me is that there IS a narrative at all.

This is why I suggested I preferred a tie-- if SF wins, BB was "right", Kraft was "wrong", the 49ers are the best team in the NFL, etc. et al.

If the Ravens win, I continue hearing that they're unstoppable, are the best team in football, Ravens are "Brady killers", Raven's aren't scared to play in Fox, etc., etc., etc.

A tie is literally the best outcome for the Patriots and their fans. Pats again hold the best record, we could afford to lose a game, media could STFU about Jackson, etc. Of course I know a tie ain't gonna happen, but a man can dream.

True, a tie is always very unlikely, BUT SF was within seconds of one with Seattle, and Baltimore almost as close to one in their game with Pitt. So, you never know.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hard to believe BAL is on a pace to smash the 1978 NEP for rushing yards in a season.

Never thought i'd see it in the "passing" era but with smaller defenses on the field it makes sense.

 

[wheresmosi]

just further proof they kicked our behinds and that game really wasn't close and the defense will need to be much better

Although, if one looks back on that game, just a few things could have turned it. If we don't have the offsides on their first TD, and we get a TD right before the half instead of a FG, and if Edelman doesn't fumble for the return 6 (let's say we get a FG that drive), that could have swung it to being 20-13 us at that point. (True, we did get a special teams fumble that set up a TD, but that has become normal for us). The game likely plays out differently if that is the situation.

 

[wheresmosi]

They didn't jump off-sides on the FG attempt. The Center committed a False Start and the Ref blew the call. That's fact.

True, but those often get called the wrong way, so we still should have been more disciplined--unless we were trying to draw the refs attention, but that wouldn't be worth the gamble down there.

 

[Soliel]

The better question is how can the ravens stop us. We’re winning the super bowl and that’s all there is to it. Lamar Jackson? Jimmy Garoppolo? Please. Theese are only sacrifices who will be tormented

 

[Froob]

True, but those often get called the wrong way, so we still should have been more disciplined--unless we were trying to draw the refs attention, but that wouldn't be worth the gamble down there.

For some reason, they aren’t calling false starts this season. Noticed it from that very first game in Chicago. It’s bizarre.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree you can't allow him to run forward, but pushing and shooting gaps plays into Jackson's abilities. We saw that with him against the Patriots..At one point or another, he dodged every one of our LBs with ease. He deeked Simon out of his shoes.. He avoided Van Noy.. Dodged Hightower. Simply outran Collins.

Yea hes a handful. Hes so freaking quick which is why i'm not buying into the Kap and Cunningham comparisons.

Hes a lot more like Michael Vick when he was with ATL and with him there was another school of thought.

The other strategy is to keep him in the pocket with 3-4 rushers controlling the LoS (not charging upfield) and let the LBs/secondary play zone close to the LoS. Dare him to throw it vs either man or zone. The gap controllers spread wide with the ends setting an edge and the off the line players are waiting. It'll force LJ to read the gap, commit and then a combination of players are waiting.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The better question is how can the ravens stop us. We’re winning the super bowl and that’s all there is to it. Lamar Jackson? Jimmy Garoppolo? Please. Theese are only sacrifices who will be tormented

I do think we'll do enough offensively and defensively to at least keep BAL from running away.

The SF front 4 scare me but I think defensively we'll handle them.