Hopkins Headed to Tennessee

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Honestly I hate to say it, given all the recent controversy over repetitiveness, but how can I avoid it here?... This current WR group may be as good as any group that didn't have Moss on it, I agree, and true we've had A LOT of success winning with less in the WR room, however, you had the greatest QB of all-time leading those WR rooms to all those successes. It's just the obvious truth.

Now, that's not the only way to be successful. With a top 5 defense, and an all pro caliber running game led by Rham, and the optimum output O'Brien can get from the passing game (with moderate talent QB + WRs), then anything is possible I suppose. But don't set your heart on Mac making chicken salad out of chicken **** (so to speak) because while the current WR group is probably good, Mac isn't great enough to make it better. That works with Brady, and Mahomes, and some other elite quarterbacks, but not with quarterbacks on Mac's level (which granted could improve). Likely for our passing game to be great, Mac would need what Tua has in Miami, two tier 1 talented WRs, but we don't have that, so we'll have to find another way.

We can't have an honest discussion about WRs without referencing Gronkowski because although he was a TE he enabled the offense to thrive without a real #1 outside threat, so the goal of those Gronk adjacent receiving groups was a little different as they emphasized quickness and inside routes. I consider TEs as part of the core since they're often lined up as WRs and running WR routes.

But even taking Gronk out of the equation, I disagree that this WR group is likely to be the best non-Moss group. The 2016 team lost Gronk (and Bennett was injured) and they were still a darn good group with Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, and Mitchell. In 2017 they added Cooks.

I also think it makes sense to look at the top guys first. In 2010 they had a resurgent Branch and Welker. In 2011 and 2012 they had Welker (also Lloyd in 2012 who was frustrating but still decent.)

LaFell was very good in 2014 and they had Edelman and Amendola too.

Branch, Givens, Patten certainly held their ground.

Smith-Schuster and Parker as the top guys? I just don't see it here but it's not out of the question. A lot unproven.

 

[sambam94]

For me ... I look at it this way ... Patriot's focus needs to be possession ...
chewing up clock. ...Great focus on defense ... the old bend don't break.

We cannot go into any AFC East game trying to outscore our rivals.
If we can hold them below 28 points we have a chance.

So I say my opinion working my way to Hopkins. ...
Sure would have been nice to have him.
But do we win 1` more game with him ... score an extra TD or FG?

I am not so sure ... Mac Jones is not going to be a gunslinger in the Obie offense.

Hopkins is not a downfield burner. Mac would have had a field day with the short/intermediate rouites with Hopkins. The guy catches anything near him, best hands maybe in the game.

 

[Salsalife]

We can't have an honest discussion about WRs without referencing Gronkowski because although he was a TE he enabled the offense to thrive without a real #1 outside threat, so the goal of those Gronk adjacent receiving groups was a little different as they emphasized quickness and inside routes. I consider TEs as part of the core since they're often lined up as WRs and running WR routes.

But even taking Gronk out of the equation, I disagree that this WR group is likely to be the best non-Moss group. The 2016 team lost Gronk (and Bennett was injured) and they were still a darn good group with Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, and Mitchell. In 2017 they added Cooks.

I also think it makes sense to look at the top guys first. In 2010 they had a resurgent Branch and Welker. In 2011 and 2012 they had Welker (also Lloyd in 2012 who was frustrating but still decent.)

LaFell was very good in 2014 and they had Edelman and Amendola too.

Branch, Givens, Patten certainly held their ground.

Smith-Schuster and Parker as the top guys? I just don't see it here but it's not out of the question. A lot unproven.

Don't forget James White, 3rd down back. Team had alot of talent.

 

[Sciz]

Ian Rapaport, Spotrac, Sports Illustrated, and NFL.com must be wrong.

Yes, they are. The source of the $14M report is obviously Parker’s agent, and agents (like the lawyers that almost all of them are) will distort things to look as favorable as possible for their clients. Since the blatantly false original reports, reporters have seen the actual text of the contract and confirmed that it’s $9.1M guaranteed.

 

[amfootball]

Hi. My name is Davante Parker, and I just signed a 3 year extension for eleven million dollars a year. I can't wait to see you at Gillette!

I can't stand the Parker extension.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I can't stand the Parker extension.

Why? It's short money for a guy who averaged 17 yards a catch last year. If he plays games and kicks ass he gets paid and the team will happily do so. If he doesn't he doesn't.

 

[amfootball]

Why? It's short money for a guy who averaged 17 yards a catch last year. If he plays games and kicks ass he gets paid and the team will happily do so. If he doesn't he doesn't.

I didn't see anything last year from him that warranted an extension. I would have preferred Bill take that money and spend it on Dhop.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I think this is the correct read on the situation... 2023 is all about Mac Jones, not what Hopkins could have added... Mac needs to win games this year, not "just be better" than his rookie year and the Catch-'22 "lost" season...

How is Mac supposed to win games when his WRs cannot get open? And none of the WRs scare defenses into keeping a safety or two deep so they are free to crash the line and shutdown the the run game.

 

[PatsFan2]

Hopkins is not a downfield burner. Mac would have had a field day with the short/intermediate rouites with Hopkins. The guy catches anything near him, best hands maybe in the game.

Somebody should tell BB we haven't had a WR like that since Edelman... Meyers was ok at best.

 

[PatsFan2]

I didn't see anything last year from him that warranted an extension. I would have preferred Bill take that money and spend it on Dhop.

That^ horrible WR evaluating there it's like saying Parker is better than D-Hop.

 

[Bill Lee]

They have not

Not consistently winning since TB12 left. So whatever he is doing…its not working…and its not heading in the right direction.

Larry Bird ain't comin' through that door.

This is an entertainment company at its core…to put on the field a losing team that has no dynamic exciting players is not a recipe for success

It worked for the Red Sox for 80 years...

I said this in the Booty thread, but that dude's gotta be the happiest Patriot in uniform today; his odds of making the 53 outta camp just went up, exponentially.

Happy Booty is what we're all after.

 

[Wozzy]

How do you know? He hasnt been yet

He was top ten in 2020 and 2021 with some combination of Fitzpatrick/Tua/Brissett at QB, average to poor offensive lines, and three different offensive coordinators, all of whom weren't great.

You don't understand what I'm saying, which is clear from your responses.

The Dolphins offense was pretty good last year no? With a pretty good coordinator?

Their new coach phased Gesicki out of the offense because he wanted a blocking TE and to use 3 WR sets more. This is evident in his snap count. This was a philosophical decision by a new head coach and possibly because Gesicki was an impending free agent, he wouldn't be around going forward.

Again, Kyle Pitts had 300+ yards receiving... did he suck as well or was it his situation? Only one person here debating this had the balls to answer that.

Also Kelce gets targeted more now than he did pre Mahomes

You're reinforcing my point, not wearing it. Gesicki and Henry on average receive roughly half the targets, and they're low quality targets from a lesser QB and bad to average offense.

I know, I am the one not accepting the fact that the rebuild should be never ending...They have a good enough roster to compete, and they did in 21 and did in 22.

Nobody said rebuilds are never-ending but the negative nancy's here. Again if they had a legit offensive coordinator last year they would have made the playoffs two years in a row. They probably wouldn't have won it all but they would have improved every season since 2020. The rebuild is over, we'll see how they do this season. They need to stay healthy and the youth need to develop and contribute.

 

[Bill Lee]

The front office need to reevaluate how they are running the organization. By not offering Hopkins a competitive contract we are now behind the proverbial 8 ball, when we had a chance to at least be competitive.

Wow, I'm glad you're not running the team.

IMO a 31 year old WR with injury, attitude and PED concerns is not what turns an noncompetitive program into a competitive program.

Maybe turn off sports talk radio for a few days?

 

[All3Phases]

He was top ten in 2020 and 2021 with some combination of Fitzpatrick/Tua/Brissett at QB, average to poor offensive lines, and three different offensive coordinators, all of whom weren't great.

You don't understand what I'm saying, which is clear from your responses.

I do, and no gisicki has never been an elite offensive weapon.

Their new coach phased Gesicki out of the offense because he wanted a blocking TE and to use 3 WR sets more. This is evident in his snap count. This was a philosophical decision by a new head coach and possibly because Gesicki was an impending free agent, he wouldn't be around going forward. Again, Kyle Pitts had 300+ yards receiving... did he suck as well or was it his situation. Only one person here debating this had the balls to answer that.

You're reinforcing my point, not wearing it. Gesicki and Henry on average receive roughly half the targets, and they're low quality targets from a lesser QB and bad to average offense.

So his targets have no reflection on his receiving ability? We’ve established Kelce was great with a mediocre qb

Nobody said rebuilds are never-ending but the negative nancy's here. Again if they had a legit offensive coordinator last year they would have made the playoffs two years in a row. They probably wouldn't have won it all but they would have improved every season since 2020. The rebuild is over, we'll see how they do this season. They need to stay healthy and the youth need to develop and contribute.

Not sure what the point of this response was. So I’m not overly negative on the team?

 

[Pape]

How is Mac supposed to win games when his WRs cannot get open? And none of the WRs scare defenses into keeping a safety or two deep so they are free to crash the line and shutdown the the run game.

His receivers can get open, and they did get open. Hes a professional quarter back in the NFL... He shouldn't need a 3 yard buffer to put the ball in players hands... If he does, then he's nothing better than a back up, and we'd be better off cutting bait now and playing Bailey Zappe...

Its up to Mac to keep the defenses honest by making the passes, and hitting those guys when he needs to.

 

[Wozzy]

Bill has doubled Diggs before and definitely given him special treatment. There's no question about that. It's on tape.

Also, Adams does receive as much bracket coverage as anyone in the league. Closely followed by Kupp, Jefferson and Diggs. With Evans, Hill, Chase slightly behind them.

The idea that teams just throw their best CB and "nothing else changes" towards a WR1, is just false. And laughable considering all the exotics and variations defenses are using.

The Patriots usually do things different from most of the league. They often put their #1 CB on a team's #2 WR and bracket their best WR, like they did with Diggs. They also run so many odd formations and hidden coverages, so trying to decipher it would be impossible.

The statement Lomabrdi got from the defensive coordinator was from the question how many offensive weapons scare you and the answer was maybe 3-4... and I'm paraphrasing. The much more dangerous opponent is the one with variation of guys who can hurt you. Football is about matchups, you don't need and the majority of teams don't have a superweapon that makes everything go.

5-6 WR's, 3 TE's and a FB, 4-5 RB's.... a stable of good dangerous weapons in the hands of a competent play caller is better than teams overpaying one superweapon. Edelman and Troy Brown have more rings than Randy Moss, Devante Adam’s, Deandre Hopkins, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones and Stefon Diggs. Were those guys #1 WR's?

 

[Wozzy]

I do, and no gisicki has never been an elite offensive weapon.

So his targets have no reflection on his receiving ability? We’ve established Kelce was great with a mediocre qb

Not sure what the point of this response was. So I’m not overly negative on the team?

You just keep conversations going by ignoring everything a person has just said.

You're also a massive hypocrite. You argue vehemently with me that QB's are magical unicorns who makes bad receivers better and make all things possible... you argue this until you're red in the face.

Then when I suggest Gesicki has been at a disadvantage playing with lesser QB's in bad offenses, you suggest it shouldn't matter.

Stop responding to me, you're a fraud. And rather than insult you further, I'll just try and keep the peace around here.

 

[Steve102]

Bill Belichick Nixed DeAndre Hopkins Plan for Key Reason: Insider

New England Patriots head coach and general manager Bill Belichick had a clear reason for not signing wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins.

heavy.com

Interesting. To me it sounds like damage control.

 

[Bill Lee]

He's played in virtually every single game in his career until 2021 when he tore his ACL, then missed time in 2022 due to suspension

other than that he's been as consistent and elite a WR as you could ask for

doesnt matter anymore... now ill hold out hope that we aggressively go after one of the big FA WRs next year

Tears his ACL after 8 long seasons in the NFL then takes PEDs to try to bounce back, is a risky player to invest in.

It's the kind of player you offer $4m + incentives just to see what he might have left in the can.

30 other teams came to similar conclusions, with most not even willing to invite him in for a visit.

As pointed out by Tannenbaum as quoted in this thread, if he wanted the best chance to rebuild his career he would have come here.

Instead he wanted the money so he goes to TEN where he can cash in while he lines up and watches Tannehill hand the ball to Henry.

 

[All3Phases]

You just keep conversations going by ignoring everything a person has just said.

Incorrect

You're also a massive hypocrite. You argue vehemently with me that QB's are magical unicorns who makes bad receivers better and make all things possible... you argue this until you're red in the face.

You’re lying because you take what I think about the qb position and completely fabricate it into oblivion. I understand your point, and agree that going from a mediocre qb to elite one would help if in the right system. That’s why I asked you if Mahomes and Reid are coming to New England, because here, they’re still with a mediocre qb and system. So your point is moot

Then when I suggest Gesicki has been at a disadvantage playing with lesser QB's in bad offenses you suggest it shouldn't matter.

You called him an elite weapon, that’s factually incorrect

Stop responding to me, you're a fraud. And rather than insult you further, I'll try and keep the peace around here.

You said Justin Jefferson didn’t command special coverage, not sure your knowledge of the game is as high as you think it is. I will continue to respond to whichever posts I feel like, I don’t have a problem not insulting others