Honest Assessment of AFC East

[CrazyDave]

TE is debatable...I'll give you HC...for now...

Well, yeah. lol

 

[dryheat44]

Can anyone say BIAS?
QB: NE
RB: Even
WR: Mia (Branch, caldwell, Jackson vs. Booker, Chambers, Hagan)
OL:NE
TE: Even
DL: NE
LB:NE
S:Mia (Allen, Hill, Tillman, Cooper vs...Inj RH, Wilson, Hawkins?)
CB: Mia (Allen, Poole, Daniels, Goodman vs Gay, Hobbs, Samuel Warfield?)

There's no way you can be typing with a straight face right now and rank the Dolphins safeties or corners higher than New England's. I'd disagree with Tight End too, but you could at least argue that. Miami is closer to NE with linebackers that these other positions. Allen is a rookie. Done zero. The other Allen has been the weak spot in the Giants secondary since he was drafted. Right now, of the five safeties you have listed, a good ranking would be Harrison, Harrison at 80%, Wilson, Harrison at 70%, Hawkins, Harrison at 60%, Hill, Tillman, Allen, Cooper.

 

[Welker83]

There's no way you can be typing with a straight face right now and rank the Dolphins safeties or corners higher than New England's. I'd disagree with Tight End too, but you could at least argue that. Miami is closer to NE with linebackers that these other positions. Allen is a rookie. Done zero. The other Allen has been the weak spot in the Giants secondary since he was drafted. Right now, of the five safeties you have listed, a good ranking would be Harrison, Harrison at 80%, Wilson, Harrison at 70%, Hawkins, Harrison at 60%, Hill, Tillman, Allen, Cooper.

Harrison was already getting slow BEFORE his injury...A triple ligament tear will definatly slow him down... But even more significant than that is Change of direction. Most players can regain most of their speed back, but it takes up to 2 years to get their ability to Cut back and even then it will never be what it used to...

If he plays you will see him a step slow to all the spots where he should be, and he will be a liabilty if he bites on any fake as his abilty to recover will be significanty less...

Face it... on opening day he'll be 33 and turn 34 by the end of the year... He'll be just under the one year mark on his injury that for a DB takes 1-2 years to get full mobility back. He tore is ACL, PCL, ans MCL in his left knee..if any player cuts to their left he will be on the field grabbing air.

Unless there is a miracle of science that can take 2 years off his age and miraculously heals a triple ligamnet tear in less than a year...he's done.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

TE is debatable...I'll give you HC...for now...

Welker, I was drinking tea for God's sakes. Give me some warning before saying something like that! I almost burned myself...

 

[Welker83]

Welker, I was drinking tea for God's sakes. Give me some warning before saying something like that! I almost burned myself...

Sorry bout that! LOL!

 

[CrazyDave]

Harrison was already getting slow BEFORE his injury...

That statement puts whatever credibility you have in serious jeopardy.

 

[spacecrime]

It's as valid as resting on your laurels

Not quite. There is a big difference between saying:

PATS: "We have been good for the past few years, and we have kept most of our good players, and believe we will be good again next year.

PHINS: "We have been mediocre for the past few years, and have kept most of our players, and believe we will be good for a change next year.

Both teams improved over the post season. However, the Pats improved on a great team, and the Phins immproved on a medicore team.

I would sympathize with you a little more, but the things you are saying now are the exact same things you've been saying for years.

It can be done. The 2001 Pats surprised every one. The key word is surprise. Anyone who thought at the start of the 2001 season that the Pats would win the AFCE would have sounded exactly like you sound now.

By December of 2001, the Pats were rolling, and then it was clear that they were good. Wait until December yourself, and if the Dolphins are on a roll, then you can talk and people won't laugh at you.

 

[dryheat44]

Face it... on opening day he'll be 33 and turn 34 by the end of the year... He'll be just under the one year mark on his injury that for a DB takes 1-2 years to get full mobility back. He tore is ACL, PCL, ans MCL in his left knee..if any player cuts to their left he will be on the field grabbing air.

Unless there is a miracle of science that can take 2 years off his age and miraculously heals a triple ligamnet tear in less than a year...he's done.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same injury Culpepper suffered? Is he done? It seems his game is built on mobility.

Neither agility nor atleticism has ever been Rodney's strong suit. As a run-support safety, I have no doubt he'll be fine. It might not be opening day (then again it might), and maybe he comes off the field in obvious passing situations.

And like I said, which you can freely disagree with, Rodney at 60% is better than any safety on your roster.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Dryheat:

LOL on that!

And can I get an AMEN that our Tight ends including Thomas will be superior to Miami's Wifebeating Association?

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Can anyone say BIAS?

Welcome to Welker's World where if you think the Pats are better than Miami, you're BIASED!!! Regardless of reason or common sense.

QB: NE
RB: Even

Good to know I wasn't BIASED here.

WR: Mia (Branch, caldwell, Jackson vs. Booker, Chambers, Hagan)

Chambers can't touch Branch who, in 2004, ranked #1 in overall Comp%, while excelling at all 3 pass depth levels. Hagan better than Jackson??? Booker and Caldwell are both journeymen WRs but Caldwell, being younger, still has some potential. Just my BIASED opinion.

OL:NE

No BIAS here either.

TE: Even

Wow, I must be EXTERMELY BIASED here. McDaniel would be the #3 TE on the Pats now. Graham is the best blocking pure TE in the league. Watson in his 1st season of playing full time is already a better blocker and receiver than McDaniel. Moreover, McDaniel has character issues (can you say "domestic").

DL: NE
LB:NE

Hmmmm... no BIAS here either. There may be hope for me yet.

S:Mia (Allen, Hill, Tillman, Cooper vs...Inj RH, Wilson, Hawkins?)
CB: Mia (Allen, Poole, Daniels, Goodman vs Gay, Hobbs, Samuel Warfield?)

If you looked at the Pats Regular Season Passing Stats, you'd think I was crazy taking them over Miami. But the Pats improved overall defensively later in the season, including the playoffs. The Pats ranked 27th in Opp QB Rating (87.8) and 30th in YPA (7.45). However, in 2 playoff games, the Pats held opponents to only 6.83 YPA and a QB Rat of 74.5. 5 turnovers cost the Pats the game at Denver in the postseason.

Samuel struggled as did the rest of secondary last year, but in 2004, he had a great season. According to KC Joyner, Samuel was so good in 2004, the Pats were able to funnel coverage to the opposite side to help out Randall Gay. Hobbs played well in his rookie season and has looked good in minicamps, which can be telling for WRs and DBs since similar practice conditions apply to game time, in regards to covering your man. Warfield sucks and I don't think he'll make the team.

Miami struggled last year against the pass as well and ended the season with a thud. 3rd string backup QB Matt Cassel, went 11-20, 2 TDs 0 INTs and a passer rating of 116.3 with a YPA of 8.4 against the Miami starters.

When I said "even" for safeties, I didn't include the "hope" that James Sanders will breakout. Hawkins, a converted CB, has good cover skills for a Safety and Eugene Wilson is experienced at FS. Rodney has always been more quick than fast and his experience and smarts will be enough to tip the scale to NE's favor if he returns healthy.

 

[Welker83]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same injury Culpepper suffered? Is he done? It seems his game is built on mobility.

Neither agility nor atleticism has ever been Rodney's strong suit. As a run-support safety, I have no doubt he'll be fine. It might not be opening day (then again it might), and maybe he comes off the field in obvious passing situations.

And like I said, which you can freely disagree with, Rodney at 60% is better than any safety on your roster.

Yup, same injury as culpepper...Of course culpepper doesn't have to run full spedd ON EVERY SINGLE PLAY... and Daunte doesn't need to run with WR's that run sub 40 times... A knee injury to a DB is like a shoulder injury to a QB...

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I guess it's a good thing we have several other safeties like Wilson, Tebucky, Sanders, even Hawkins came along good for us.

Hopefully we won't lose the division on the strength of our safeties!

 

[Welker83]

Welcome to Welker's World where if you think the Pats are better than Miami, you're BIASED!!! Regardless of reason or common sense.



Good to know I wasn't BIASED here.



Chambers can't touch Branch who, in 2004, ranked #1 in overall Comp%, while excelling at all 3 pass depth levels. Hagan better than Jackson??? Booker and Caldwell are both journeymen WRs but Caldwell, being younger, still has some potential. Just my BIASED opinion.


No BIAS here either.



Wow, I must be EXTERMELY BIASED here. McDaniel would be the #3 TE on the Pats now. Graham is the best blocking pure TE in the league. Watson in his 1st season of playing full time is already a better blocker and receiver than McDaniel. Moreover, McDaniel has character issues (can you say "domestic").



Hmmmm... no BIAS here either. There may be hope for me yet.



If you looked at the Pats Regular Season Passing Stats, you'd think I was crazy taking them over Miami. But the Pats improved overall defensively later in the season, including the playoffs. The Pats ranked 27th in Opp QB Rating (87.8) and 30th in YPA (7.45). However, in 2 playoff games, the Pats held opponents to only 6.83 YPA and a QB Rat of 74.5. 5 turnovers cost the Pats the game at Denver in the postseason.

Samuel struggled as did the rest of secondary last year, but in 2004, he had a great season. According to KC Joyner, Samuel was so good in 2004, the Pats were able to funnel coverage to the opposite side to help out Randall Gay. Hobbs played well in his rookie season and has looked good in minicamps, which can be telling for WRs and DBs since similar practice conditions apply to game time, in regards to covering your man. Warfield sucks and I don't think he'll make the team.

Miami struggled last year against the pass as well and ended the season with a thud. 3rd string backup QB Matt Cassel, went 11-20, 2 TDs 0 INTs and a passer rating of 116.3 with a YPA of 8.4 against the Miami starters.

When I said "even" for safeties, I didn't include the "hope" that James Sanders will breakout. Hawkins, a converted CB, has good cover skills for a Safety and Eugene Wilson is experienced at FS. Rodney has always been more quick than fast and his experience and smarts will be enough to tip the scale to NE's favor if he returns healthy.

LOL!

WR: Branch and chambers wash out..after that you have perenial underachiever caldwell while we have pro-bowler Marty booker who had the 2nd best yards per catch average IN THE ENTIRE NFL! Obviously reche is a much better reciever...his best season was for 352 yards...HE HASN"T EVEN BROKEN 1000 yards for his CAREER! lets check booker in his first 4 years he had 2 1000+ yard seasons... or in the same career span more than double the production. Are you sure reche is better? or will BB and Brady magically make him elite..kind of the way they made David terrell and andre davis finally deliver on their potential..

Marty "Worse than Reche" Booker only put out 188 yards against the pats last year... not to shabby for a 2nd!


And who is Mcdaniel? I'de like to meet this guy whoever you are talking about.. because i know i have a guy named mcmichael who is a better TE than Ben watson..especially since he became one of the better blockers in the league last year after many sub-par years...Go check the tape... There is a reason why our backs average over 4.4 yards and we gave up less than 30 sacks...

 

[feelthepain]

There's no way you can be typing with a straight face right now and rank the Dolphins safeties or corners higher than New England's. I'd disagree with Tight End too, but you could at least argue that. Miami is closer to NE with linebackers that these other positions. Allen is a rookie. Done zero. The other Allen has been the weak spot in the Giants secondary since he was drafted. Right now, of the five safeties you have listed, a good ranking would be Harrison, Harrison at 80%, Wilson, Harrison at 70%, Hawkins, Harrison at 60%, Hill, Tillman, Allen, Cooper.

Just because a player resides on the Pats roster doesn't make them better then every player in the NFL. You obviously don't know much about Will Allen, go look at his numbers he's as good as any CB in the league except int's. He's a fast good tackler and cover corner. You can say what you like about his stay in NY, but how many probowlers are there in the NY secondary??? As far as your comment of Jason Allen being a rookie and not doing squat...you don't seem to mind that Jackson is included in the WR core that you seem to think is better then Miami's!!! I realize you want the world to just hand you the SB trophy, but not everyone thinks that NE will just walk through the division this year.

You Pat fans want to live off what you've done and expect to win every game in the division based on what happend in years past. We are no longer coached by DW or led by Jay Fiedler. In the Wanny era the fins starting roster more resembled other teams third stringers and coached by one of the worst HC in the NFL, no longer the case in Miami. We are adding depth to every position. You don't have to accept it, but look at the Pats depth....not a list of superstars but key to their success. Seems like evey time you post you only recognize your team and disrepcet others, thats up to you. But it's also a bit unrealistic. I don't think anyone (division rival fan) disrespects the Pats, but my experience here is 90% of Pat fans disrepect everyone in the division.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Ahhhhh!

Good Times, Good Times....

 

[Welker83]

Just because a player resides on the Pats roster doesn't make them better then every player in the NFL. You obviously don't know much about Will Allen, go look at his numbers he's as good as any CB in the league except int's. He's a fast good tackler and cover corner. You can say what you like about his stay in NY, but how many probowlers are there in the NY secondary??? As far as your comment of Jason Allen being a rookie and not doing squat...you don't seem to mind that Jackson is included in the WR core that you seem to think is better then Miami's!!! I realize you want the world to just hand you the SB trophy, but not everyone thinks that NE will just walk through the division this year.

You Pat fans want to live off what you've done and expect to win every game in the division based on what happend in years past. We are no longer coached by DW or led by Jay Fiedler. In the Wanny era the fins starting roster more resembled other teams third stringers and coached by one of the worst HC in the NFL, no longer the case in Miami. We are adding depth to every position. You don't have to accept it, but look at the Pats depth....not a list of superstars but key to their success. Seems like evey time you post you only recognize your team and disrepcet others, thats up to you. But it's also a bit unrealistic. I don't think anyone (division rival fan) disrespects the Pats, but my experience here is 90% of Pat fans disrepect everyone in the division.

You guys always talk about the lack of "respect".. But it's EVERYWHERE! you know sports covers, vegas odds, writers picks, power polls, puff pieces, white house visits, superbowls... But if anyone says ANYTHING that in the least hints that the Pats are not the Best the world has ever seen you guys jump on them screaming disrespect... Just because your ultra competative QB needs some one dissing him to perform does not mean you all as fans do also... Honestly all we are doing is wasting some time and getting all riled up when maybe we don't realize something...our teams are coached and built by guys who follow the same philosophy and walk the same path. And in the end we're both wrong... If the pats are so great then why have we split games 2 years in a row...And if the fins are so great why did we split them?


If NE is considered the "Model NFL Franchise" then what drug are you taking thinking that you are being "disrespected"? really?

 

[Welker83]

How can you call Branch and Chambers a wash?? Look who Branch had throwing him the Ball and look who Chambers had throwing him the ball. Chambers has had 5 different QB's atleast in his brief career how many QB's has Branch had??? If you don't think that has an effect on what a WR does you're nuts, whens the last time Branch put up over 200 yrds in a game with a third string QB throwing him the ball?? Just because Branch is on the Pats doesn't make him better then every WR in the division.

I'm not even getting into that..i'm just trying to dispell the booker is worse than caldwell nonesense...

 

[coltshater]

I don't think anyone (division rival fan) disrespects the Pats, but my experience here is 90% of Pat fans disrepect everyone in the division.

We don't disrespect the other teams in the division, just their homer trolls.

We aren't the ones going on other teams bulletin boards and talking smack out of our arsses.

 

[feelthepain]

You guys always talk about the lack of "respect".. But it's EVERYWHERE! you know sports covers, vegas odds, writers picks, power polls, puff pieces, white house visits, superbowls... But if anyone says ANYTHING that in the least hints that the Pats are not the Best the world has ever seen you guys jump on them screaming disrespect... Just because your ultra competative QB needs some one dissing him to perform does not mean you all as fans do also... Honestly all we are doing is wasting some time and getting all riled up when maybe we don't realize something...our teams are coached and built by guys who follow the same philosophy and walk the same path. And in the end we're both wrong... If the pats are so great then why have we split games 2 years in a row...And if the fins are so great why did we split them?


If NE is considered the "Model NFL Franchise" then what drug are you taking thinking that you are being "disrespected"? really?

?????????????????????????

 

[dryheat44]

I don't know where to begin here.

Just because a player resides on the Pats roster doesn't make them better then every player in the NFL. You obviously don't know much about Will Allen, go look at his numbers he's as good as any CB in the league except int's.

Bull. I went to school with Will Allen, and have followed his career. He's not starting caliber. By the way, what numbers would you like me to check? As good as any CB in the league. You're officially off the reservation. YOU obviously don't know much about Will Allen, except the Giants got rid of him and he's now a Dolphin. This is like someone here saying 'Brandon Gorin is as good as any lineman in the league. Check all the numbers except for sacks allowed.' I know Welker83. Welker83 generally has fine points to contribute to this board. Welker83 has an enjoyable avatar to boot. You, sir, are no Welker83.

You can say what you like about his stay in NY, but how many probowlers are there in the NY secondary???

And this is relevant to the conversation how?

As far as your comment of Jason Allen being a rookie and not doing squat...you don't seem to mind that Jackson is included in the WR core that you seem to think is better then Miami's!!!

Point in fact, Allen IS a rookie. Another point in fact, he HASN'T done squat. A third point in fact, I never said the Patriots WRs were better than the Dolphins. I believe the Dolphins have the edge at this position.

I realize you want the world to just hand you the SB trophy, but not everyone thinks that NE will just walk through the division this year.

I don't want, and the Patriots don't need, anybody to hand them anything. True, not everybody thinks that NE will walk through the division this year. There are some Dolphin fans, some columnists who are sick of talking about the Patriots and would like somebody to knock them off, and there are columnists who like to make ridiculous statements so if they happen they can say "I told you so, just like I predicted." If it happens to pass.

You Pat fans want to live off what you've done and expect to win every game in the division based on what happend in years past.

Um...Why shouldn't we? Should we expect to come in second or third because of what has happened in years past.

We are no longer coached by DW or led by Jay Fiedler. In the Wanny era the fins starting roster more resembled other teams third stringers and coached by one of the worst HC in the NFL, no longer the case in Miami.

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

We are adding depth to every position. You don't have to accept it, but look at the Pats depth....not a list of superstars but key to their success.

Adding bodies does not equal adding competent depth. While they might prove as proficient as the 2001 Patriots team, I see no reason to assume they will be. You seem to assume it's a foregone conclusion.

Seems like evey time you post you only recognize your team and disrepcet others, thats up to you. But it's also a bit unrealistic. I don't think anyone (division rival fan) disrespects the Pats, but my experience here is 90% of Pat fans disrepect everyone in the division.

I don't think we disrespect any team. Believing the Dolphins are the second place team in the division does not equal disrespect. Believing the team that has been better for the last five years is still a better team does not equal disrespect. Save disrespect for the likes of the Steelers, Titans, and Colts, who in recent years would lose to the Patriots again and again, yet still claim that they were the better team. I don't recall seeing that here. Of course, with a message board, you get all types. If by disrespect, though, you mean that Pats fans think the Patriots are the best team in the division, and should win it, then yeah, I guess you can feel disrespected.