Hit Piece

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

First ballot stuff is now a punchline. The same media that shamefully reported on Spygate with absurd bias might use their own exaggerations to further advance their agenda. Utterly ridiculous. Bill is the clearest non-player Hall of Fame lock there can be, other than maybe Halas and Brown. He would make it as either a coach or a GM and for two separate dynasties. He would have a reasonable argument after 2001 with a one as a HC and two as a DC.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Phil Jackson won with 2 different teams and we different players. However, without having a top 5 player of all time he was not great.

Greg Popovich was amazing and built a team with Duncan. Without having a HOF player he has not won a championship.

Bill doesn't deserve to be listed above Walsh, Lombardi, and Knoll unless he wins without Brady.

And the fact that you could list Phil and Pops without Red is crazy.

Walsh only coached 10 seasons as a HC and won 4 Superbowls. That means he won a Superbowl %40 of the time he coached. Bill doesn't deserve to be placed a head of him.

Being in the same pillar as Walsh isn't a bad thing.

Walsh won 3 Super Bowls.

Look up Seifert, George.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Even though Bill's coaching legacy is diminished a little by Spygate - which he admitted was on him and I think will unfortunately cost him some votes for the HOF - I believe he is still the GOAT head coach. More rings than any other coach. Opposing fans and players cringed and many still do at the thought of facing a Belichick-led football team. When you get that kind of respect, you're an all time great.

Bill indeed is under .500 without Brady but I'm not penalizing him for that right now. Great players deserve way more credit for winning than coaches ever will. Great players can win with bad coaches - Peyton Manning took a .300 NCAA coach to a Super Bowl. Nuff said. The answer to the question was it Bill or Brady is, always was and always will be Brady.

But all time great coaches know how to maximize what they have no matter what and Bill has done that a lot more often than not, Super Bowl LII notwithstanding. I'd say he certainly did last year with a really bad roster on both sides of the ball, in 2016 losing the GOAT to suspension for a quarter of the season and in 2008 losing the GOAT for the season.

Good post.

I’ve suggested that Bill is better at coaching great teams (talent wise) and closing the deal by winning championships. This isn’t to say he’s a front runner; meshing great talent (and egos) is incredibly hard to do.

It doesn’t mean Bill is necessarily the best, or even great, at taking a sub-par team/QB and dragging them to the wild card round.

In basketball, a good comparison is Phil Jackson and Larry Brown. There’s no one I’d rather have than Jackson if I have a a stacked roster...even though I might prefer Brown if I’m an expansion team looking for credibility. It’s not to say neither of these guys suck at what the other is known for.

I’d take a guy like Bill/Phil every time though, when ranking them. Championships are everything. People act like it’s so easy to win with greatness (Brady/Jordan) but there’s a whole new set of problems and challenges.

 

[203Pat]

Good post.

I’ve suggested that Bill is better at coaching great teams (talent wise) and closing the deal by winning championships. This isn’t to say he’s a front runner; meshing great talent (and egos) is incredibly hard to do.

It doesn’t mean Bill is necessarily the best, or even great, at taking a sub-par team/QB and dragging them to the wild card round.

In basketball, a good comparison is Phil Jackson and Larry Brown. There’s no one I’d rather have than Jackson if I have a a stacked roster...even though I might prefer Brown if I’m an expansion team looking for credibility. It’s not to say neither of these guys suck at what the other is known for.

I’d take a guy like Bill/Phil every time though, when ranking them. Championships are everything. People act like it’s so easy to win with greatness (Brady/Jordan) but there’s a whole new set of problems and challenges.

I agree with you especially on the bolded part. The fact that Bill and Brady were able to put aside egos for as long as they did (wish it was a couple years longer *cough* Bill) and continue to function at the level they did is a feat of its own. Same way Phil Jackson managed Jordan, who after watching The Last Dance, didn't initially love the Jackson hire. Jordan and Brady I think are very similar personality wise as they push everyone around the them hard to be better while also managing their own brand. Belichick and Jackson definitely used different approaches with Jackson being the Zen master "players coach" and Bill being more of a grumbly hard ass but both found a solution that worked for managing superstars.

 

[Bill Lee]

Trying to nitpick Belichick after 20 years of unparalleled winning is beyond amusing.

Especially when it's coming from a no count moron bloviating doucebag a-hole like Felger.

What has he ever done to earn the oxygen he breathes?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I see a lot of talk about Phil Jackson. As a Lakers fan, he has admitted he only likes coaching star players that can’t get over the hump. He doesn’t like wasting his time with rookies or developing young players which he didn’t have an eye for during his time with LA. He wanted to trade Kobe for Jason Kidd which was bizarre given Kobe was an ascending star getting comparisons to MJ. That’s his style.

His coaching absolutely put the Lakers over the top as they were undisciplined, entitled, dysfunctional underachievers. When Shaq first came to LA, their teams were stacked, but kept losing to inferior Utah with the most horrendous coaching with Del Harris. Then they had Kurt Rambis getting schooled by Popovich.

I doubt Shaq and Kobe win a ring without Phil Jackson.

 

[1960Pats]

LOL. Bizarro world has some thoughts.

Josh is the reason for global warming or whatever they're calling it these days.
Josh probably caused all of the fires out west too.
If we didn't have Josh the Pats may have won some SBs.

 

[amfootball]

Honestly, Bill should be in the Hall now. He may die coaching. Just put him in at 69 already with what he has accomplished.

To see him flanked on other side by Jimmy Johnson and Cowher at the Hall induction with them in their yellow jackets is a travesty.

 

[1960Pats]

BB is "mean" to the media, he doesn't give them total access or answer questions that may give an opponent a competitive advantage.

The local media mostly suck, Bill Simmons nailed it long ago.

I have a friend who's pretty far up the sports media ladder, and many years ago he complained to me about BB. He said that whenever Bill refers to the media he just points to the media room and says, "those a**holes."

The fact that before Bill ever coached his first game here with the Pats one of the local writers called him "duplicitous pond scum" is more than enough of a reason for payback. And pay them back he has.

Bill's tactics have worked well when his teams have won and not well at all when they lost. Just as predicted.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have a friend who's pretty far up the sports media ladder, and many years ago he complained to me about BB. He said that whenever Bill refers to the media he just points to the media room and says, "those a**holes."

The fact that before Bill ever coached his first game here with the Pats one of the local writers called him "duplicitous pond scum" is more than enough of a reason for payback. And pay them back he has.

Bill's tactics have worked well when his teams have won and not well at all when they lost. Just as predicted.

Kevin Mannix was the king of the pri**ks

 

[XLIX]

I’d take a guy like Bill/Phil every time though, when ranking them. Championships are everything. People act like it’s so easy to win with greatness (Brady/Jordan) but there’s a whole new set of problems and challenges.

Agreed. Bill has proven he can win with greatness - which may not sound like much but an awful lot of coaches out there have had an awful lot of talent under them and found a way to fail.

However, what some people seem to think is that Bill can win with anyone. That is demonstrably false.

 

[1960Pats]

Talk radio is anger pornography.

That's all it is because that's all it's designed to be. They say stupid things to invite callers to light up the lines to "correct" them. It's a game.

And nobody is better at saying stupid things than Jermaine Wiggins. I'm just not sure if it's on purpose or not.

 

[1960Pats]

Kevin Mannix was the king of the pri**ks

Was that who it was? Thanks. I couldn't remember and didn't feel like looking it up.

At first I was annoyed at Bill's presser style but then they kept winning.

 

[sb1]

Agreed. Bill has proven he can win with greatness - which may not sound like much but an awful lot of coaches out there have had an awful lot of talent under them and found a way to fail.

However, what some people seem to think is that Bill can win with anyone. That is demonstrably false.

Yeah. Bill can and has won with great players. I think lots of coaches can do that no matter how good they are.

I'd say he can also turn a team that ought to absolutely suck into something at least better than that, like last year's Pats. I think the 2011 Colts after Manning left probably has a record like last year's Pats and are also competitive in most of their games if Bill was there instead of the debacle they were.

But Bill also gets credit for some reason for being able to turn any team even with crap players into championship worthy. He's never done that. I doubt any coach can.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Was that who it was? Thanks. I couldn't remember and didn't feel like looking it up.

At first I was annoyed at Bill's presser style but then they kept winning.

Yep. In the early days Mannix and Borges were complete noodges and proactively hostile towards BB.

 

[rochrist]

Yep. In the early days Mannix and Borges were complete noodges and proactively hostile towards BB.

They were infuriated that he kept making fools out of them. Especially Borges. I mean, his commentary on the 2001 draft will follow him to his grave:



And then he followed up by predicting the Rams would beat the Pats 72-0 in the SB.

 

[sb1]

Yep. In the early days Mannix and Borges were complete noodges and proactively hostile towards BB.

Yep. Belichick in the same sentence as an alcoholic who assaulted women at Nebraska, another domestic abuser and another guy who had his pregnant girlfriend murdered. Perfectly suitable comparison, nothing to see here.

 

[rochrist]

Yep. Belichick in the same sentence as an alcoholic who assaulted women at Nebraska, another domestic abuser and another guy who had his pregnant girlfriend murdered. Perfectly suitable comparison, nothing to see here. View attachment 34982

Which ******* was that? Mannix?

 

[sb1]

Which ******* was that?

That was Mannix

 

[Steve102]

Unless I'm mistaken I don’t think you need a unanimous vote to be a first ballot. No way Bill ends up unanimous with Skygate and the amount of people (media) he has rubbed the wrong way but I would be very surprised if he isn't a first ballot guy.

I am not expecting him as a first ballot guy. I expect voters to not vote for him just on spite. I think there are some who will forgo their feelings on the man and vote based on his on the field accomplishments. On the other side of the coin, I think there's enough of them that will relish the opportunity to have the tables turned and extend a middle finger to him.