Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[Triumph]

That's unlikely because unless Brady gets injured no other QB's will see the field this season. Even in blowouts he plays late into the game and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Not accurate.

In the undefeated season vs Miami, Brady came out because the Pats had a sizable lead, but had to go back in because Cassel wasnt moving the offense.

The final game of the 2009 season Hoyer played a lot vs Houston because NE had a post season berth secured.

Mallet certainly has his flaws in the passing game, but hes not worse than Tim Tebow.

 

[Brock Samson]

Sanchez is the better pure QB and would be a better backup here than Tebow is, currently at least. But there is a pretty obvious joined at the hip thing going on between Sanchez and Ryan that anyone with the comprehension skills of a mollusk can see.

Tebow wasn't given a chance to compete last year and in their system, with their situation, I think he would have been more successful than Sanchez given that all Sanchez could do is drop back look around then then throw the ball at a defensive player. I also think that locker room and huddle leadership is drastically underrated by today's fantasy football generation and that Tebow would have elevated the play of those around him more than Sanchez would have ever been capable of.

So yes, Sanchez is the better pure passer and overall QB right now and there was a conspiracy theory.

Same thing in Denver too, huh? Just a Peyton conspiracy in that case. I sense a theme developing.

E: Can't wait until we get to the Mallett conspiracy theory.

 

[IllegalContact]

Not accurate.

In the undefeated season vs Miami, Brady came out because the Pats had a sizable lead, but had to go back in because Cassel wasnt moving the offense.

The final game of the 2009 season Hoyer played a lot vs Houston because NE had a post season berth secured.

Mallet certainly has his flaws in the passing game, but hes not worse than Tim Tebow.

brady came back in because cassel threw a pick-6 to Jason taylor

 

[Triumph]

brady came back in because cassel threw a pick-6 to Jason taylor

Id like to see what Mallet can do when live bullets are flying around and not more Tebow drama.

 

[sb1]

I already stated that one of the differences between a "good" defense and a "great" defense is that they can make big stops. If you look back over what I've said about the Pats defense in 2011, I never said they were GREAT. I said that they were better than many of you give them credit for, especially in the playoffs.

No I don't think so...I think the adjectives we use to describe a defense that gets torched by the likes of Dan Orlovsky, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jason Campbell and Chad Henne in one season, and allows 200 yards rushing in the first quarter of a game (Broncos)... are all pretty much accurate. Yep, a real collection of pro bowlers huh?

Like I said, what makes that defense's performance more egregious is the fact that they couldn't get off the field which means the QB couldn't get on the field... that won't matter for some teams but I think you will agree it matters more when you have #12.

And as has been stated, they didn't really "improve" at all in the playoffs. They couldn't make plays and couldn't get stops. They gave up what should have been the game winning drive to the Ravens. They did give up the game winning drive to the Giants. Because of the lack of talent Belichick put a scheme in place in the Super Bowl designed to stop the deep ball to Cruz and Nicks and concede everything else. The Giants were happy to exploit what the Pats were giving them short and on the ground, hence letting the Giants take a huge advantage in TOP, and the consequences are as stated above.

 

[Kontradiction]

No I don't think so...I think the adjectives we use to describe a defense that gets torched by the likes of Dan Orlovsky, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jason Campbell and Chad Henne in one season, and allows 200 yards rushing in the first quarter of a game (Broncos)... are all pretty much accurate. Yep, a real collection of pro bowlers huh?

Like I said, what makes that defense's performance more egregious is the fact that they couldn't get off the field which means the QB couldn't get on the field... that won't matter for some teams but I think you will agree it matters more when you have #12.

And as has been stated, they didn't really "improve" at all in the playoffs. They couldn't make plays and couldn't get stops. They gave up what should have been the game winning drive to the Ravens. They did give up the game winning drive to the Giants. Because of the lack of talent Belichick put a scheme in place in the Super Bowl designed to stop the deep ball to Cruz and Nicks and concede everything else. The Giants were happy to exploit what the Pats were giving them short and on the ground, hence letting the Giants take a huge advantage in TOP, and the consequences are as stated above.

The thing that the Tebow fans can't get their heads around is the fact that the Pats were good in the points allowed department only by stopping the opposing offense in the red zone. But, usually, the opposing offense would drive down the field with very little effort before the drive stalled out. Tebow did it against that defense in the first quarter of the regular season meeting then they put the clamps down on him. In the playoffs, against a team that gave away yards like the United Way gives away money, Tebow couldn't get out of his own way... much less even get close to the red zone on a consistent basis.

 

[Oinko]

The thing that the Tebow fans can't get their heads around is the fact that the Pats were good in the points allowed department only by stopping the opposing offense in the red zone. But, usually, the opposing offense would drive down the field with very little effort before the drive stalled out. Tebow did it against that defense in the first quarter of the regular season meeting then they put the clamps down on him. In the playoffs, against a team that gave away yards like the United Way gives away money, Tebow couldn't get out of his own way... much less even get close to the red zone on a consistent basis.

They get their heads around it. It was a terrible game by any measure -- the Broncos were running a non-traditional scheme, the Patriots schemed against it in a way that made it impossible to run, and the Broncos (and Tebow) couldnt' do anything else to take advantage of the weaknesses that should have opened up.

It was a terrible game. Tebow played terrible.

Why is so hard to see that plenty of people can see that? Plenty of Tebow fans can see he's played terrible this preseason. Plenty of Tebow fans concede all sorts of things, but it's like people want to see the worst in people.

 

[sb1]

The thing that the Tebow fans can't get their heads around is the fact that the Pats were good in the points allowed department only by stopping the opposing offense in the red zone. But, usually, the opposing offense would drive down the field with very little effort before the drive stalled out. Tebow did it against that defense in the first quarter of the regular season meeting then they put the clamps down on him. In the playoffs, against a team that gave away yards like the United Way gives away money, Tebow couldn't get out of his own way... much less even get close to the red zone on a consistent basis.

Couldn't have said it better. And it's also worth noting that the 2011 Patriots played only 2 teams that finished with winning records in the regular season (and lost to both of them). And the defense still sucked, even with a schedule that easy. Anyone who claims the 2011 defense was good clearly did not watch this team or they have an agenda tilted toward making a certain player's performance look better.

If that defense was playing THIS year's schedule I highly doubt they'd be stopping many teams in the red zone.

 

[Kontradiction]

They get their heads around it. It was a terrible game by any measure -- the Broncos were running a non-traditional scheme, the Patriots schemed against it in a way that made it impossible to run, and the Broncos (and Tebow) couldnt' do anything else to take advantage of the weaknesses that should have opened up.

It was a terrible game. Tebow played terrible.

Why is so hard to see that plenty of people can see that? Plenty of Tebow fans can see he's played terrible this preseason. Plenty of Tebow fans concede all sorts of things, but it's like people want to see the worst in people.

For starters, Demosthenes is talking about the 2011 defense like they were actually good when the majority of people here that have watched anywhere from five to ten times more Pats games than he has, including every game that season, is telling him otherwise.

 

[chumpchange]

So you just made up three things about what I said. nice try.

No, no, making up things is YOUR admitted specialty. And you do it SO WELL.

But if we're moving into fact-based conversation and not your flights of fancy, Denver during Mr.-Best-In-the-NFL Tebow's year was ranked 30th in third down conversion percentage, converting on third down 31.41 percent of the time.

But they DID lead the league in three-and-outs under Tebow. So there's that. Tim was superb at that. BEST in the NFL, for sure!

 

[kennyb]

If Tebow has, then who has not? The ball boy?

Who has played worse than Tebow...anyone?

Has anyone in the league played worse than him?

 

[Ironman44]

If Tebow has, then who has not? The ball boy?

Who has played worse than Tebow...anyone?

Has anyone in the league played worse than him?

I think Hernandez had a worse camp ( but barely ).

 

[fnordcircle]

Id like to see what Mallett can do when live bullets are flying around and not more Tebow drama.

What Tebow drama? Are you confusing an internet message board with real life?

There's no Tebow drama, certainly not anything that should affect Mallett.

 

[Suddyfan]

What Tebow drama? Are you confusing an internet message board with real life?

There's no Tebow drama, certainly not anything that should affect Mallett.

exactly. its just a way to pass the time. Mallett didn't come close to losing the 2nd spot to tebow. Even the most ardent of Tebow's fans know that.

he either makes it or he doesn't. if he does I expect that by week 2/3 when he hasn't been dressed yet the fervor amongst his fans will be supplanted by anger then by week 6/7 it will be acceptance. By week 16 this thread might have actually died down!

 

[Oinko]

For starters, Demosthenes is talking about the 2011 defense like they were actually good when the majority of people here that have watched anywhere from five to ten times more Pats games than he has, including every game that season, is telling him otherwise.

Understand, and what I'm suggesting is not to lump everybody in together. It's a toxic way to converse -- that constant "you people" mentality for every little thing you spot that you want to disagree with. Just disagree with the person that said it -- otherwise, you're actually inviting and stoking the very kind of "group think" that is supposedly so distasteful.

You're not going to hear from every Tebow fan that thinks "Well, that sucked." Because of the "dog bits man" phenomenon. People don't tend to go to the trouble of posting in online discussions what amounts to a mundane opinion.

 

[Kontradiction]

Understand, and what I'm suggesting is not to lump everybody in together. It's a toxic way to converse -- that constant "you people" mentality for every little thing you spot that you want to disagree with. Just disagree with the person that said it -- otherwise, you're actually inviting and stoking the very kind of "group think" that is supposedly so distasteful.

You're not going to hear from every Tebow fan that thinks "Well, that sucked." Because of the "dog bits man" phenomenon. People don't tend to go to the trouble of posting in online discussions what amounts to a mundane opinion.

I haven't seen too many of you guys disagreeing with his statement that the Pats defense was any good that year. Otherwise, I wouldn't have lumped the Tebow fans in together and would have simply left it at him.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Another loaded question in that you ignore just about everything else by restricting consideration to the three preseason performances. This has been explained to you repeatedly. Are you not smart enough to understand it ?

Let's be clear about this anyone who disagrees with you isn't smart enough to understand you, you have made that clear throughout this thread and your time in this forum, and I am pretty sure the bronco fans who disagreed with you when you were a Bronco fan were all 1st and 3rd graders too stupid to understand you as well, whereas with Jet fans it was simply a rhetorical question


You were once again asked a very simple question, but since it doesn't fit with your worldview that Tim Tebow should not be judged by the same standards as every other pro athlete you dismiss it as a "loaded question" and cry foul.

Tim Tebow is on the bubble and has been since he walked through that door, yet for some reason it is unfair to ask whether he should get a job over those who have outperformed him throughout camp and are also fighting for that last roster spot. Every other player in the NFL currently fighting for a job is expected to win that job through their performance, Tim Tebow should be awarded it simply for being Tim Tebow that is and has been the position of the Tebowites throughout this entire debate, and given that completely absurd position they shouldn't be questioning anyone's intellect. Asking whether he deserves it is unfair, but for some reason they are now asking whether a good performance Thursday would change our minds when his atrocious performance to date has done absolutely nothing to change theirs. Heads Timmy wins, Tails Timmy wins, if he performs horribly it doesn't make a difference, if he performs well it does. Pretty good deal for Timmy.

 

[chumpchange]

Let's be clear about this anyone who disagrees with you isn't smart enough to understand you, you have made that clear throughout this thread and your time in this forum, and I am pretty sure the bronco fans who disagreed with you when you were a Bronco fan were all 1st and 3rd graders too stupid to understand you as well, whereas with Jet fans it was simply a rhetorical question


You were once again asked a very simple question, but since it doesn't fit with your worldview that Tim Tebow should not be judged by the same standards as every other pro athlete you dismiss it as a "loaded question" and cry foul.

Tim Tebow is on the bubble and has been since he walked through that door, yet for some reason it is unfair to ask whether he should get a job over those who have outperformed him throughout camp and are also fighting for that last roster spot. Every other player in the NFL currently fighting for a job is expected to win that job through their performance, Tim Tebow should be awarded it simply for being Tim Tebow that is and has been the position of the Tebowites throughout this entire debate, and given that completely absurd position they shouldn't be questioning anyone's intellect. Asking whether he deserves it is unfair, but for some reason they are now asking whether a good performance Thursday would change our minds when his atrocious performance to date has done absolutely nothing to change theirs. Heads Timmy wins, Tails Timmy wins, if he performs horribly it doesn't make a difference, if he performs well it does. Pretty good deal for Timmy.

THIS is my problem with Tebow. He's awful--we all know this; it's not up for debate--but his fans believe that in spite of his being so awful, he DESERVES a roster spot based on his character or his fame. I cannot see how the other guys who actually have to perform in order to earn their place on the team can accept that everybody--even Brady--has to pull their weight except Tebow, because he's Tebow. Seems like a quick way for a coaching staff to lose the respect of a locker room when one person who's so indefensibly awful gets a pass because he's the OC's pet. Gross favoritism like that does not fly in a merit-based organization.

 

[Demosthenes]

Re: Re: Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

I haven't seen too many of you guys disagreeing with his statement that the Pats defense was any good that year. Otherwise, I wouldn't have lumped the Tebow fans in together and would have simply left it at him.

On phone and can't typt worth cap. Will respond to this and about the defense later.

 

[Huckleberry1]

THIS is my problem with Tebow. He's awful--we all know this; it's not up for debate--but his fans believe that in spite of his being so awful, he DESERVES a roster spot based on his character or his fame. I cannot see how the other guys who actually have to perform in order to earn their place on the team can accept that everybody--even Brady--has to pull their weight except Tebow, because he's Tebow. Seems like a quick way for a coaching staff to lose the respect of a locker room when one person who's so indefensibly awful gets a pass because he's the OC's pet. Gross favoritism like that does not fly in a merit-based organization.

I basically agree, but it isn't so much my problem with Tebow as it is the Tebowites who follow him from team to team, rooted for the jets to beat the Patriots last year, and now think they can call themselves Patriot fans and lecture us on why a player who has performed worse than any player on the roster should make the roster without having to make any case whatsoever for what he has done to deserve it. Don't worry though, if he is released next week and the Bills sign him they will be right back rooting against the Patriots week one, just as they have for the past 3 seasons.