Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[ATippett56]

I'm quite sure that BB wants to field what he considers to be the best 53 man roster as well. If Tim Tebow is on that roster, then Bill most likely has a good reason, whether YOU agree with it or not.

Refer to post #219 for a rebuttal.

 

[manxman2601]

No, once again you speculate.

Yes I know - I've already told you I do that. (And as you like to do this, that's post #210 below btw)

So. I speculate because I, like you, don't have enough information to do anything more. Do you believe Tebow will be cut? That's speculation. I may be completely wrong - it won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

I'm giving my opinion.I've never purported to do anything more.

Yet Tim Tebow was not worth participating in one snap in any capacity whatsoever in the third preseason game.

How is this not speculation? you have no idea why Tebow didn't see any snaps in that game.

 

[Demosthenes]

Yet Tim Tebow was not worth participating in one snap in any capacity whatsoever in the third preseason game.

Seeing as how Ryan Mallett had a grand total of 4 drives ? With 2 of those being 3 and outs iirc ?

 

[supafly]

Unlike you, I can honestly evaluate abysmal quarterback play when I see it during the 2013 NFL Preseason.

Understanding that this post isn't directed at me, I'd be careful about going too far out on a limb and making bold predictions either way.

Common sense would have to point to Belichick already being fully aware of what Tebow could/couldn't do prior to even bringing him here--especially in this offense. It's not about whether or not a player fails with Belichick. It's about whether or not he can pick himself back up and make progression in some of the areas in which he failed. We have no idea what the "plan" is, nor do we have any idea as to whether or not Belichick feels that a year in a winning system under the tutelage of some successful personnel may change some of his problems or not.

This specific player is going to be about whether or not Belichick feels that he is worth a roster spot in a developmental role which looks ahead to the future. I highly doubt that Belichick expects Tebow to be taking any snaps at the position of QB this season. If he thinks that it's worth giving him a chance, he'll make it. If he doesn't feel that it's worth it, he won't make it.

If Belichick based all of his personnel decisions on preseason performances alone, there'd be a lot of players who would never have been kept--especially in their first year (which is what Tebow basically is in here). Luckily he usually has a bigger picture in mind when trying to assess a player's worth not only now but also in the future.

 

[robbomango]

No, once again you speculate.

That's not speculation, BB specifically said he evaluates players on more than just preseason games.

 

[ATippett56]

How is this not speculation? you have no idea why Tebow didn't see any snaps in that game.

According to your hypothesis, Tim Tebow is suppose to be ubiquitous when in actuality he was invisible.

 

[manxman2601]

That's not speculation, BB specifically said he evaluates players on more than just preseason games.

Those pesky facts:

“There are a lot of things that happen in preseason games that could be an aberration, one way or another,” Belichick said. “We’ve had 20-some practices, and two games, so I think that there’s a lot to be seen in those practices out there. I mean, if there wasn’t, I don’t know why we’re doing them.”

“I’d say to evaluate, you kind of need to see the practices,” Belichick said on his weekly WEEI appearance. “Over the course of training camp, what we look at is the entire body of work. Certainly the trend is important [to get] better as training camp goes on. That’s the idea.”

Belichick said he has seen a lot of improvement out of Tebow throughout the first three weeks of training camp, even if his stats don’t tell that story (a 17.7 passer rating and completing just 26 percent of passes). Tebow’s overall decision-making, both in games and practices, is much more important than his stats.

“I think he’s definitely picked up the offense and has been able to function efficiently in that,” Belichick said. “He obviously has some skills that are unique relative to our other quarterbacks, and I think his overall execution of the passing game has improved, definitely, over the course of training camp.”

In preseason, practices are at least as important as the games - Sports - The Boston Globe

I do wish Bill Belichick wouldn't keep speculating

 

[supafly]

No, once again you speculate.

Yet Tim Tebow was not worth participating in one snap in any capacity whatsoever in the third preseason game.

Hmmmm.....

Kind of looks like you are speculating just as much as anyone else is, doesn't it?

What makes you know for a fact that Bill Belichick definitely felt that "he wasn't worth participating in one snap in any capacity whatsoever?"

Belichick already came right out and stated that in a perfect world the starters (meaning Brady) would play well into the 3rd quarter to simulate the aspect of halftime, meaning that Ryan Mallett would likely have a few series' at best in mop up duty. It's just as possible that Tebow wasn't anywhere in the cards to play last week as what you're suggesting.

That is speculation at its finest, which is pretty much what this forum is based off of.

 

[ATippett56]

If Belichick based all of his personnel decisions on preseason performances alone, there'd be a lot of players who would never have been kept--especially in their first year (which is what Tebow basically is in here). Luckily he usually has a bigger picture in mind when trying to assess a player's worth not only now but also in the future.

To be honest, I am more concerned about running back depth, tight end depth, offensive line depth than maintaining a third string quarterback on the roster who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[ATippett56]

Hmmmm.....

Kind of looks like you are speculating just as much as anyone else is, doesn't it?

What makes you know for a fact that Bill Belichick definitely felt that "he wasn't worth participating in one snap in any capacity whatsoever?"

Belichick already came right out and stated that in a perfect world the starters (meaning Brady) would play well into the 3rd quarter to simulate the aspect of halftime, meaning that Ryan Mallett would likely have a few series' at best in mop up duty. It's just as possible that Tebow wasn't anywhere in the cards to play last week as what you're saying.

That is speculation at its finest, which is pretty much what this forum is based off of.

Allow me to rephrase:

Tim Tebow did not participate in one snap in the New England Patriots' third preseason game.

Fact or Fiction?

 

[manxman2601]

According to your hypothesis, Tim Tebow is suppose to be ubiquitous when in actuality he was invisible.

I know which makes me doubt my own hypothesis. I do think BB is likely to stay vanilla in pre-season and wouldn't want to show to the world any 'tricks' involving Tebow (to make you happy, I can confirm that that was speculation) but masybe Occam's Razor applies after all and they really are just trying him at QB. Time will tell.

I'm perfectly happy to wait and see what happens.

 

[supafly]

I'm definitely not claiming that Tebow makes the roster, but I am saying that there's obviously a chance.

Like I said, if all player evaluations were based off of first year preseason performances alone, we'd have had a lot of players who never made it to another training camp. Matt Cassel had some pretty bad performances at times during preseason.

On the other hand, we've also seen some players who were preseason studs as they absolutely tore it up--and yet they were promptly cut. I think a lot more goes into this process than meets the eye + what the average fan sees.

 

[supafly]

Time will tell.

I'm perfectly happy to wait and see what happens.

That's really all we can do. As of Friday or Saturday we'll know one way or another.

As I said in my initial post, there's no way that what we've seen so far would equal to the average fan claiming that "Tebow has definitely earned a spot." He's looked bad. Real bad.

Luckily for us though, Belichick doesn't base his player evaluations solely off of a first year preseason performance, as there are many other factors that go into the process. Anyone who would dispute that is being extremely short-sighted in my opinion and hasn't been paying much attention to the process over the years.

 

[manxman2601]

That's really all we can do. As of Friday or Saturday we'll know one way or another.

As I said in my initial post, there's no way that what we've seen so far would equal to the average fan claiming that "Tebow has definitely earned a spot." He's looked bad. Real bad.

Luckily for us though, Belichick doesn't base his player evaluations solely off of a first year preseason performance, as there are many other factors that go into the process. Anyone who would dispute that is being extremely short-sighted in my opinion and hasn't been paying much attention to the process over the years.

Agreed to everything. He has looked "real bad" and your third paragraph is all I've wanted to get across.

 

[manxman2601]

Matt Cassel never pitched a 0 quarterback rating during the 2008 NFL Preseason.

Terry Bradshaw, Len Dawson, Dan Fouts, Johnny Unitas and joe Namath are all HOF QBs that have.

List of NFL quarterbacks who have posted a passer rating of zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[supafly]

To be honest, I am more concerned about running back depth, tight end depth, offensive line depth than maintaining a third string quarterback on the roster who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

And I would agree with you, but there have been developmental players who have made the roster before, so it's not written in stone just yet--especially when the position of QB comes into play. That's for Belichick to decide. Luckily we only have another week to deal with these debates.

Allow me to rephrase:

Tim Tebow did not participate in one snap in the New England Patriots' third preseason game.

Fact or Fiction?

Of course it is fact, but the way that you are presenting it in your argument is just as much speculation as anyone else here. We have no idea as to what Belichick's plan was re: Tebow's playing time last week. Therefore it's kind of ironic to call someone else out for speculating...but it's not my battle so that's all I'll comment.

Most of our opinions are based on speculation. That's what the forum is for, to learn from each other, share opinions, and create respectful debates.

Just so you know--if it were up to me personally, Tebow would not make it; but luckily for all of us Bill Belichick has the mind of a genius coach who sees much more of a picture than I ever could, and at least I am aware of that.

If he decides to keep Tebow then all we can do is accept our future HOF coach's decision, and try to be optimistic towards a bigger picture being in place. Obviously Tebow would have shown Belichick some talent and positive traits that would equate to that decision being made.

 

[ATippett56]

Terry Bradshaw, Len Dawson, Dan Fouts, Johnny Unitas and joe Namath are all HOF QBs that have.

List of NFL quarterbacks who have posted a passer rating of zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll retract my previous statement about Matt Cassel:

Matt Cassel: Game Logs at NFL.com

However, Matt Cassel did vastly improve from the first game of the 2008 NFL Preseason.

 

[supafly]

To be honest, I am more concerned about running back depth, tight end depth, offensive line depth than maintaining a third string quarterback on the roster who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

As are most of us--me included, but luckily for everyone Bill Belichick doesn't use our "expert" analysis to determine his roster every year or we'd be in trouble.

All we can do is trust in his method. The whole damn thing hasn't made much sense (unless the plan was to use him in different roles), so I don't think any of us should be too surprised to find out that he actually makes the 53 man roster at the end of the week, if that's what happens.

If Belichick feels that Tebow has potential now or in the future, then obviously he'd be just fine with the current makeup of the offensive line, the running backs, and the tight end depth. It isn't like any of these 3 positions scream out "weakness" at the moment anyway, is it?

Allow me to rephrase:

Tim Tebow did not participate in one snap in the New England Patriots' third preseason game.

Fact or Fiction?

Of course it's fact, but the way that you presented your argument was certainly based on pure speculation and you're definitely smart enough to know that.

Look, if it were up to me personally I'd be in full agreement with Tebow not making the team based on the percentage of information that we know and have seen. My only point is that there is much more information that we haven't seen and aren't privy to, nothing more.

If Tebow makes the team then Belichick obviously feels that his potential and talent in some areas are worth exploring, and that's certainly good enough for me.

 

[robbomango]

Terry Bradshaw, Len Dawson, Dan Fouts, Johnny Unitas and joe Namath are all HOF QBs that have.

List of NFL quarterbacks who have posted a passer rating of zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whoah, crazy list and QB's needed a minimum of 10 attempts to make the list. 0.0 rating occurred 65 times, lolz. Saw papa Manning and baby Manning on there as well, Doh.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

Whoah, crazy list and QB's needed a minimum of 10 attempts to make the list. 0.0 rating occurred 65 times, lolz. Saw papa Manning and baby Manning on there as well, Doh.

Makes you wonder just how big that list would be, if they'd included preseason games too.