Gronk trade completed

[Drewski]

Sorry. It was not all Brady. Does it really matter? The majority of members have forgotten their praise of BB. I stand by it is difficult to repeat no matter the star power.

Pretty sure if you could do a wildcard search on my post history for some form of "BB"/"Bill Belichick" and "[terms of praise]" my post a few pages back where I said "No doubt BB is a great coach" would be the first time since I have joined this site where I praised him (although I don't think I've ever trashed him either).

I am not forgetting anything personally. I can't speak for others.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think the latter is what will end up happening. Hard to see Tampa not being a contender in the NFC this year, especially if they go tackle with their top overall pick.

The talent is there for them to do great, but not sure about the coaching...

 

[carmelo15]

BB would not have 6 World Championships without Brady. However, I remember one that was won due to BB's coaching. The interception that saved the Seattle game had been practiced all week. Butler knew Seattle was going to pass by the formation they were in. That is coaching. Yes, Brady put points on the board, but the game was won because of the defensive play.

Great point, at the same time I don’t know what other QB is bringing the team back down 10 vs that defense.

 

[Kontradiction]

The talent is there for them to do great, but not sure about the coaching...

The coaching is good enough to get the job done. The players win games anyway. Don’t believe me? Ask BB.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Sorry. It was not all Brady.

You're right. One player can only do so much. But while he wasn't a world beater in the beginning, he was a guy the team believed in which started their run midway through the season. The team had a completely different swag with him at QB.

Had the QB play been terrible, there's no way that team sniffs the playoffs. Especially since they were already off to a 0-2 start.

Does it really matter?

It will in time, whether it benefits BB or TB. This won't be the last this board talks about it.

I stand by it is difficult to repeat no matter the star power.

I was only responding to the comments above.

 

[carmelo15]

The Last Dance hits home when Jordan said players win championships not FO even though there important.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Last Dance hits home when Jordan said players win championships not FO even though there important.

I get what you're saying, but football is slightly different because the offense can't play defense and vice versa.

But Michael Jordan is the most bad a** athlete of all time. The 90's Bulls were rock stars.

 

[Doctor DDS]

The coach means more in football than any other sport. Basketball is clearly a players league - take a look at Kerr and Walton and how they both did when Golden State was loaded and how they did in other circumstances. Players do matter in every sport but with the cap in football, outside of QB, I think the talent is often very close and game planning and finding players to fill specific roles for the right contract.

BB benefited big time from Brady w/o a doubt but since he drafted him, coached him and helped devise the game plans used he gets the credit anyways. Both would have had HOF careers w/o the other but together they are GOAT.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Last Dance hits home when Jordan said players win championships not FO even though there important.

I thought about that too.

Look, if this is a situation where Brady wanted to leave New England due a terrible series of drafts, lack of weapons, tensions with management, etc., then I get it. Sometimes it's just time for people to go in separate directions.

But if this was about the team thinking that, hey, look, Tom is going to be 43 and we need to think about the future, then that is just absolutely idiotic. Just like the Bulls, you're taking a once-in-a-lifetime team and arrogantly dismantling it because you think the GM/coach/owner can just use a magic formula and find the same success. Basically, you're now just going from an actual dynasty to one of about 130 US sports teams trying to build a dynasty. There shouldn't be a rush to move on from dynasty sustaining players.

Jerry Kraus was really, really arrogant though. I am suggesting the Patriots may be a small amount of arrogant, as the situations are only like each other in superficial ways.

 

[Kontradiction]

The coach means more in football than any other sport. Basketball is clearly a players league - take a look at Kerr and Walton and how they both did when Golden State was loaded and how they did in other circumstances. Players do matter in every sport but with the cap in football, outside of QB, I think the talent is often very close and game planning and finding players to fill specific roles for the right contract.

BB benefited big time from Brady w/o a doubt but since he drafted him, coached him and helped devise the game plans used he gets the credit anyways. Both would have had HOF careers w/o the other but together they are GOAT.

He drafted Brady in the 6th round. That means that he liked him as a raw prospect but no had no idea what Brady would become. It was a shot in the dark, and BB was lucky enough to have caught lightning in a bottle. On top of that, Brady took less than he could have gotten routinely in order to make BB’s job the easiest in the league. BB would definitely have had a HOF career as a DC but he was not doing so hot as a HC until 12 came on the scene.

 

[Drewski]

I thought about that too.

Look, if this is a situation where Brady wanted to leave New England due a terrible series of drafts, lack of weapons, tensions with management, etc., then I get it. Sometimes it's just time for people to go in separate directions.

But if this was about the team thinking that, hey, look, Tom is going to be 43 and we need to think about the future, then that is just absolutely idiotic. Just like the Bulls, you're taking a once-in-a-lifetime team and arrogantly dismantling it because you think the GM/coach/owner can just use a magic formula and find the same success. Basically, you're now just going from an actual dynasty to one of about 130 US sports teams trying to build a dynasty. There shouldn't be a rush to move on from dynasty sustaining players.

Jerry Kraus was really, really arrogant though. I am suggesting the Patriots may be a small amount of arrogant, as the situations are only like each other in superficial ways.

Jerry Kraus is the living embodiment of one of my dad's four points to a successful life.

Never, ever, ever, ever trust short men.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Just like the Bulls, you're taking a once-in-a-lifetime team and arrogantly dismantling it because you think the GM/coach/owner can just use a magic formula and find the same success.

It's horrifying watching why the organization wanted to break that team up. I remember as a teenager seeing it was Jordan's "last year" but I thought it was just because he wanted to hang them up.

They would've easily won the following year taking out the mediocre Knicks and then the Spurs in the Finals.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's horrifying watching why the organization wanted to break that team up. I remember as a teenager seeing it was Jordan's "last year" but I thought it was just because he wanted to hang them up.

They would've easily won the following year taking out the mediocre Knicks and then the Spurs in the Finals.

I find it shocking that Reinsdorf didn't personally step in, kick Kraus to the curb, and tell Phil he could have any GM he wants (or be his own GM). Then give Pippen a mega contract and cut who you need to cut. I think Jordan-Pippen and any reasonable supporting cast is probably still enough to win it all.

 

[NormZauchin]

Wishing for it? No.

But I think its fair to say that BB has more to risk from this divorce than TB12 does.

If TB12 goes to TB and turns into a complete bag of poo....people will be like "Yup, that's what happens when a person runs into age. Happened with Montana, Peyton, Johnny U etc. Cliff Kellerman was only off by 5 years"

No one really knocks those others because of "sub their par" years at the end of the rope.

However, I think there is a good chance there is a loud chorus, if things don't go well over the next 2-5 years in NE, that a great many people will go "well, he (BB) was nada much in CLE, had a 20 year run, where ~16 of those years he was married to the best player ever, and then turned back into a pumpkin when the GOAT moved on to a different pasture"

My own opinion is that it is foolish to assign credit for the 20 year Patriot run primarily to either Belichick or Brady. There was a synergy created out of their collaboration. As has been pointed out before, this is characteristic of NFL dynasties, the majority of which have had both a great coach and great quarterback - Brown/Graham, Lombardi/Starr, Landry/Staubach, etc. Having led a forecasting group before I retired, I am reluctant to speak of the future with the certainty shown by some posters. My best guess, and it is only an informed guess, is that Brady won't "fall off a cliff" in Tampa, but will show modest declines in performance over his two year contract. Whether his play, together with the bevy of his offensive skill players, gets the Bucs deep into the playoffs, I cannot say. I think that Belichick may have a rough year or two, but I would be very surprised if the Patriots were not contenders by the 2022 season.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I find it shocking that Reinsdorf didn't personally step in, kick Kraus to the curb, and tell Phil he could have any GM he wants (or be his own GM). Then give Pippen a mega contract and cut who you need to cut. I think Jordan-Pippen and any reasonable supporting cast is probably still enough to win it all.

It's funny how these things work out. Had Reinsdorf stepped in and the everyone stayed, Phil Jackson probably doesn't go to my Lakers and make them a Champion two years later. Lakers were loaded in the late 90's but were massive underachievers with atrocious coaching.

 

[oldrover]

Jerry Kraus is the living embodiment of one of my dad's four points to a successful life.

Never, ever, ever, ever trust short men.

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator

 

[Dorito Dink]

Can you share this information with the 28-year-old-man-making-6-figures, Dorito Dink? He may want to use it with me, #1 arguer in PatsFans.com history.

Throw another 2 molestation/raping points on the board for Kontra. What a roast! It’s almost like deep down you’re a little embarrassed that the poster you tried to attack is much more successful than you, despite being much younger.

But I'll tell ya what, if that is truly the case, and you're organization is publicly traded, please tell which one it is so I can make sure I never purchase stock in it. If you're a manager there, wait a minute...

Also, consulting firm. F-i-r-m. Said it twice. Do you know what that is? Here’s a cheat sheet for you, bud. You don’t have to worry about any stock purchasing decisions. Why? Because firms, are privately held and owned by the partners. If you knew anything about business, or investing for that matter, you’d know that. Equity is built through the partners buying into the firm ("partnership") once they’ve been deemed worthy of becoming a partner, something that I’m very confident you will never be in the position to do in your lifetime lmao

 

[Soliel]

This is hurting my eyes

 

[Kontradiction]

Throw another 2 molestation/raping points on the board for Kontra. What a roast! It’s almost like deep down you’re a little embarrassed that the poster you tried to attack is much more successful than you, despite being much younger.

You know, for a future CEO, you should really learn to arithmetic. 33-28 = ..."much younger?" That might actually be worse than thinking 2006 -> 2020 is only a "few years." And the roast can't be half bad. I mean, it's no "u HaV 50000 pOzTs LoLLL," which is the absolute burn of the century and one I may never recover from, but it got you posting in this thread to me again after saying "cheers," which usually indicates you're done. As for being more successful that I am? Not sure. I'm pretty comfortable. But I couldn't care less either. I don't believe it. Why, you ask? Because successful people don't have to brag about it to a stranger with 50,000 posts on an online message board. But you do you, champ.

Also, consulting firm. F-i-r-m. Said it twice. Do you know what that is? Here’s a cheat sheet for you, bud. You don’t have to worry about any stock purchasing decisions. Why? Because firms, are privately held and owned by the partners. If you knew anything about business, or investing for that matter, you’d know that. Equity is built through the partners buying into the firm ("partnership") once they’ve been deemed worthy of becoming a partner, something that I’m very confident you will never be in the position to do in your lifetime lmao

Congrats on the Google ability. Very impressive stuff. You may have missed where I called it an "organization," because I didn't care enough about you to read too closely into your ****post bragging about how successful you are. Furthermore, once you actually get out into the real world, you'll notice that the terms "organization," "company," and "firm" are used pretty interchangeably with the real importance coming in the way of tax implications.

In other words, the information you listed above in order to get me to desperately believe that you, at 28, hold some important management position isn't very useful anywhere except on a test or tax form. With that said, I'm sure someone here believes that, after getting out of undergrad between 22-23, M.B.A. (which I assume you have if you're in management in the year 2020) 24-25 (unless you failed a class, which I'm absolutely sure you did), and then anywhere from 4 months to a year internship, you were so good that you flew up the corporate ladder. There are generally a ton of dumb people in the world and this forum is no exception. If you actually do, though, congrats! It speaks well of either your timing for a boomer retiring, your family for owning the firm, or your blowjob abilities. I would assume it's the last two, combined. Oh, and I'm still loving the butthurt. Now I'm 100% convinced that the feminine wittle hurt feewings you've displayed in this thread are over something I've said to you in the past. I'd love to know what it was but, like I said, you're not really all that memorable.

Just remember the original point of this debate - that you're not much of a loyal fan if you're also spiteful. That's what you got you to this point. Truly embarrassing work. Enjoy your weekend, chief.

 

[luuked]

I think they are both putting their reputations on the line TBH. Brady, however, has the age excuse. If he doesn't lead TB deep into the playoffs, people will call him a system QB with all that talent around him.

The legacy of both of them is already long mostly written. Especially in terms of Brady. Those final two years with Tampa will be either a footnote or if he actually succeeds in winning a title become like the final 5% of it.

Nobody is putting any reputation on the line. This is all prisoner of the moment kinda stuff. Keep in mind we are talking about 20 years (!!) absurdly successful years that are already carved into stone.