Good read on Donald Jones and his chances with Pats

[RayClay]

In a 6 receiver roster, the bolded are locks:

WR Amendola, Danny
WR Dobson, Aaron
WR Boyce, Josh
ST Slater, Matthew

So 2 of the following:

WR Jenkins, Michael
WR Thompkins, Kenbrell
WR Hawkins, Lavelle
WR Harrison, Mark
WR Jones, Donald
WR Aiken, Kamar
PR Edelman, Julian

If you assume Edelman is healthy (doubtful they're competing for the same spot anyway), you have one of the following:

WR Jenkins, Michael
WR Thompkins, Kenbrell
WR Hawkins, Lavelle
WR Harrison, Mark
WR Jones, Donald
WR Aiken, Kamar

I'd say Jones has a poor chance of making this team - he has to beat Aiken and Jenkins if current reports that they're currently the two first team outside receivers are true. Aiken knows the system better than everyone on that list, but Jenkins has that red zone height.

Jones has to prove some red zone ability and get acquainted with the playbook quick if he wants to have a chance. It might be easier for him if Mark Harrison converts to TE.

What have boyce and dobson done to make them locks? It's not as if rookies haven't become "injured" for a year before when there were veterans more ready. In the sense I use the word "lock", I wouldn't even apply it at all to our WR corps at this point. I think it's wide open, including possible future pickups.

 

[Triumph]

Anyone who doesn't think Julian Edelman won't make the 53 man roster is not bright. When he is healthy, not only is he one of the most dynamic punt and kickoff return men in the NFL, but he is also one of the best with the ball in his hands no matter where he is at on the field. As shown last season, before his injury he was on the rise and on a hot streak on offense. He even caught a 50 yarder beating Antonio Cromartie deep vs the Jets. He is explosive, super elusive, quick and can be a very good slot receiver. Bill knows he is one of the most versatile and valuable players we have so the talk of if he makes the team should cease to exist.

Edelman beat Laron Landry for 6. Cromaggot was covering Hern. How did Brady beat the Jets' blitz? | National Football Post

If Edelman begins the season on PUP he wont make the team giving another player an opportunity on the 53.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo]

If Jones does end up making your club, you can bet on being pleased with his downfield blocking. He is an excellent blocker with a really good feel for neutralizing his man in both the run and passing game. His hands are a bit erratic as he's come up with some big catches for BUF in the past but also dropped some easy ones. His lower legs/ankles seem to be an issue; the past two years he has been counted on as a #2 and both years he has missed time with ankle injuries (or last year an "undisclosed" injury). Maybe this is the year he gets past all that. All and all, for a UDFA (or 7th?, I forget) he's not a bad player and if he makes the team will be a valuable asset in the downfield WR blocking scheme.

 

[mgteich]

"Lock" always means that a player is expected to be on the IR, PUP list or the 53. We don't predict injuries, real or imagined.

And just BTW, I think that it is a lousy idea to put a rookie on IR, if he isn't really seriously injured. Almost no players have significant achievements after not participating in their first offseason and their rookie season. Boyce is the question mark at this point.

What have boyce and dobson done to make them locks? It's not as if rookies haven't become "injured" for a year before when there were veterans more ready. In the sense I use the word "lock", I wouldn't even apply it at all to our WR corps at this point. I think it's wide open, including possible future pickups.

 

[mgteich]

1) Edelman is injured NOW.

2) Unless you are willing to IR one of the rookies for non-performance (as RayClay suggests could happen), they will make the roster.

3) That leaves 2 spots. Our needs include a red-sone threat and downfield/intermediate threat. If one of the rookies steps up into one of those roles, great! It think it quite possible that one of the rookies will be inactive in most games.

IMHO, Edelman needs to show Josh something as a wide receiver or he may not make the team. The open question is how many WR/TE to carry. The answer is usually give as 9 (not including Slater). Personally, I think the that the competition is wide open. Of course, Edelman SHOULD be able to easily win such a competition.

He's not a lock, but if his health is good he's the closest thing to it.

I don't think anyone except the fellow you responded to first thinks he's a lock, but long story short its his job to lose.

He has to either regress or get injured again to be cut. The former is unlikely and the latter isn't worth speculating about.

 

[Ring 6]

Anyone who doesn't think Julian Edelman won't make the 53 man roster is not bright. When he is healthy, not only is he one of the most dynamic punt and kickoff return men in the NFL, but he is also one of the best with the ball in his hands no matter where he is at on the field. As shown last season, before his injury he was on the rise and on a hot streak on offense. He even caught a 50 yarder beating Antonio Cromartie deep vs the Jets. He is explosive, super elusive, quick and can be a very good slot receiver. Bill knows he is one of the most versatile and valuable players we have so the talk of if he makes the team should cease to exist.

If a hot streak is 11 catches in 6 games, with only 1 game over 2 catches, you don't have much of an argument for his value as a WR.

 

[mgteich]

Edelman is NOT one of the best KR's in the league. He is far from being the best KR on the team. Both Washington and McCourty are much better. Edelman returned a total of 3 kicks last year.

When he is healthy, not only is he one of the most dynamic punt and kickoff return men in the NFL, but he is also one of the best with the ball in his hands no matter where he is at on the field.

 

[Gumby]

When BB picks up a guy from a div rival - you know he has seen a lot of tape on the guy; before he even became available. So, I think Jones has a real good chance to be a solid part of the O and make the team.

I liked the photo analysis; Even if I only 100% agree on writing off the first and the last drop. The others were a bit harder to see if Fitzy was putting it 'the only place it could go' or just throwing sloppy. Regardless - wr has to catch them even if they are at his knees.

 

[RayClay]

1) Edelman is injured NOW.

2) Unless you are willing to IR one of the rookies for non-performance (as RayClay suggests could happen), they will make the roster.

3) That leaves 2 spots. Our needs include a red-sone threat and downfield/intermediate threat. If one of the rookies steps up into one of those roles, great! It think it quite possible that one of the rookies will be inactive in most games.

IMHO, Edelman needs to show Josh something as a wide receiver or he may not make the team. The open question is how many WR/TE to carry. The answer is usually give as 9 (not including Slater). Personally, I think the that the competition is wide open. Of course, Edelman SHOULD be able to easily win such a competition.

Rookies have been IRed before (Hi Kliff Kingsbury) and all players have injuries, I don't doubt some have been IRed with injuries they could have recovered quickly from simply because it caused them to miss practice and fall behind.

Tom Brady is a lock, Nate solder is a lock. I can't see a bunch of total unknowns being in the same category, unless we want to call solder a triple lock, Brady a quadruple lock etc.

I'd prefer to say their fourth round pick likely makes it because they are short of receivers this year, than call him a lock.

If a player is IRed, or cut and retained on the practice squad, he's not on the roster.

 

[goheels22002]

In a 6 receiver roster, the bolded are locks:

WR Amendola, Danny
WR Dobson, Aaron
WR Boyce, Josh
ST Slater, Matthew

So 2 of the following:

WR Jenkins, Michael
WR Thompkins, Kenbrell
WR Hawkins, Lavelle
WR Harrison, Mark
WR Jones, Donald
WR Aiken, Kamar
PR Edelman, Julian

If you assume Edelman is healthy (doubtful they're competing for the same spot anyway), you have one of the following:

WR Jenkins, Michael
WR Thompkins, Kenbrell
WR Hawkins, Lavelle
WR Harrison, Mark
WR Jones, Donald
WR Aiken, Kamar

I'd say Jones has a poor chance of making this team - he has to beat Aiken and Jenkins if current reports that they're currently the two first team outside receivers are true. Aiken knows the system better than everyone on that list, but Jenkins has that red zone height.

Jones has to prove some red zone ability and get acquainted with the playbook quick if he wants to have a chance. It might be easier for him if Mark Harrison converts to TE.

Neither Boyce nor Dobson were selected high enough in the draft to be considered a lock. I also think a training camp pickup is quite possible given this group of receivers, possibly a former Patriot.

Guys like Austin Collie, Steve Breaston, Early Doucet and Ben Obomanu are still out there, not to mention Brandon Lloyd.

Looking around at other rosters, there seems to be a lot of pretty solid depth at this position in various camps, so other surprises may become available. The Redskins have 7 or 8 guys battling for spots, for example. Pierre Garcon could be let go if a younger player shines. http://blogsohardsports.com/redskins/redskins-training-camp-battles-wide-receivers/

 

[TomPatriot]

In summary, Jones may drop passes in the middle of the field and NE won't throw to him there. So what happens when corners line up in bail tech and then press?

 

[UK_Pat37]

Anyone who doesn't think Julian Edelman won't make the 53 man roster is not bright. When he is healthy, not only is he one of the most dynamic punt and kickoff return men in the NFL, but he is also one of the best with the ball in his hands no matter where he is at on the field. As shown last season, before his injury he was on the rise and on a hot streak on offense. He even caught a 50 yarder beating Antonio Cromartie deep vs the Jets. He is explosive, super elusive, quick and can be a very good slot receiver. Bill knows he is one of the most versatile and valuable players we have so the talk of if he makes the team should cease to exist.

I think you're way off the mark. He's one of the better punt returners in the league but it isn't that hard to find decent return men. He's never really done much returning kickoffs either...in a kick return game which is pretty poor and needs to improve.

Jones could quite easily return kicks/punts. If Edelman can't get on the field, he's a lost cause. I think he has a very good shot, but he isn't a lock. If someone looks remotely better and more durable than Edelman, whose production has been lack lustre, then they'll find someone else to return our punts. We have one pure special teamer and we shouldn't be reserving another spot for one.

 

[Rob0729]

Several thoughts:

• Edelman would be a virtual lock if it wasn't for him re-injuring his foot. If he shows zero signs of the foot being an issue by the start of the season, I think he is a virtual lock for the roster. If not, who knows.
• I think the Jones contract doesn't mean much. Yes, it is three years, but as pointed out, there is no guarantees. I agree with the sentiment the Pats will want him to make the roster over say Jenkins because he can be a bargain player for the next three years.
• I agree with the article in that Jones hasn't had a great shot thus far in the NFL because of the QB situation in Buffalo, but just because the QBs sucked in Buffalo doesn't mean Jones just can't make the transition to the Pro. The Pats are making a rather low risk gamble that his lack of production is because of the situation he was in, not that he isn't a good Pro.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Neither Boyce nor Dobson were selected high enough in the draft to be considered a lock. I also think a training camp pickup is quite possible given this group of receivers, possibly a former Patriot.

Every player the Patriots have drafted in the first four rounds under Belichick has made the payroll his rookie year, and Kareem Brown is the only one who's been cut before his second offseason. So, yes, historically, they are locks.

Guys like Austin Collie, Steve Breaston, Early Doucet and Ben Obomanu are still out there, not to mention Brandon Lloyd.

There's a reason Austin Collie is still out there.

Looking around at other rosters, there seems to be a lot of pretty solid depth at this position in various camps, so other surprises may become available. The Redskins have 7 or 8 guys battling for spots, for example. Pierre Garcon could be let go if a younger player shines. Redskins Training Camp Battles: Wide Receivers | Blog So Hard Sports

And how much would you be willing to pay Garçon? I doubt the Pats are gonna pay his scheduled $5.6M salary for 2013.

 

[JoeSixPat]

OTOH, that was a three year deal with ZERO guaranteed money.

Making it a team friendly 3 year contract - the best kind. If he's good we've got him - if not, no harm done.

What I liked most about Jones is his ability to create separation, even though he's not the fastest guy. Separation results in both deep passes caught or short to mid-range passes with significant YAC.

This guy can do that - whether he will and can mesh with Brady is really the question.

 

[patriot lifer]

Edelperson is not a lock, but I'd say he's probable to make the team. With all the turnover at the receiving position, he's a rare known quantity on this team. He also seems to block well when called upon and does a good job on punt returns, and Welker is no longer around to field punts. All in all, he's got a lot going for him.

The things going against him this year is that he's no longer in that developmental category being in his fifth year. What you see of him is what you're going to get. In his early years, you could always argue that he was still undergoing to transition to WR from QB. The benefit of carrying him no longer includes the upside of potential improvement.

I'd say Dobson and Boyce are highly probable too, unless the scouting department really screwed up.


It's ironic but with the changes to the WR position this year, we could conceivably end up better than we were last year. If Amendola is healthy and as good as advertised (and can play on the outside a bit as Bedard suggested) then you have a wash. Brand Loyd brought a more legitimate #1 outside threat than years past, but he never could create much separation and had one too many drops for my taste. And the #2 WR position was nothing to write home about last year, nor the #3 spot. We could end up with a more balanced set of WR's with no one player being a star.

We'll see.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think Kamar Aiken could surprise and make the team.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think Kamar Aiken could surprise and make the team.

Given that he has zero attempts in two seasons (and only three games active), I'm not counting on it.

 

[supafly]

Neither Boyce nor Dobson were selected high enough in the draft to be considered a lock.

Why in God's earth would Belichick have chosen a 2nd round and a 4th round receiver only to then cut them before even allowing them an opportunity to pick up one of the harder offensive schemes in the NFL?

When has a higher draft pick ever NOT made the team several months later?

To take it one step further, why even draft a player if you aren't going to give them a reasonable chance at making the team? How can any new rookie WR honestly have that great of a chance during one month of training camp + some limited looks in OTAs? They probably don't even have most of the playbook down at this point.

Belichick looked to the future when he made these choices. He didn't just take 2 WRs in the first 4 rounds for the hell of it.

The Redskins have 7 or 8 guys battling for spots, for example. Pierre Garcon could be let go if a younger player shines.

Not meaning to sound argumentative, but why would WAS release their #1 WR after giving him a contract worth 5 yrs/ 42.5 million dollars?

Garcon was the Redskins primary free agent target during last offseason. They obviously think that he's quite an up and coming player, or they wouldn't have given him a 42.5 million dollar contract. Last I checked those were reserved for some pretty special players.

Their passing stats and overall talent are 100% night and day with Garcon on the field, and he's RG3's primary weapon. Unless he is too injured to play (and why would we want him if he was?), then WAS is going to save a spot for their #1 offensive receiver.

 

[supafly]

Given that he has zero attempts in two seasons (and only three games active), I'm not counting on it.

I wouldn't even consider "counting on it," but the fact that Aiken has seen the primary WR role in all 3 receiver sets so far has to mean they're wanting to see more of what he can possibly offer.

I agree with you that the odds are not good, but this is going to be a somewhat different year at the position of WR due to the fact that they started over from an entirely clean slate.

For that reason alone, I am not one in the "Edelman's an automatic lock" camp, as much as I am rooting for him, like him, and would estimate his odds at being decent for doing so.