Gilmore traded to Carolina

[carmelo15]

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So, this is a write up touching on Michael Thomas' situation. Apparently, the concept of a trade didn't seem to come into play until he was healthy. Why not now, analogous to our hypothesis that BB should have traded Gilmore while he was on the PUP?

Again, any examples of guys getting traded off the PUP list? For all I know somebody will cough up a first rounder for Thomas tomorrow, but the way this is written makes it look like it's not done. I just don't know this answer, but it seems like an answer to know if anybody is talking about how we shoulda traded him after the quad injury last december. (It could also just be that the Saints would have to trade or roster him once healthy, and wouldn't want to use a spot on him... hence the "once he's healthy" clause.)

10 NFL players who would benefit from trade ahead of deadline

Following C.J. Henderson’s trade from the Jaguars to the Panthers, here’s 10 players who could be shopped before the NFL trade deadline.

www.nbcsports.com

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Michael Thomas​

Michael Thomas will miss the first six weeks this season after being placed on the physically unable to perform list with an ankle injury. The 2019 NFL Offensive Player of the Year had ankle surgery in June -- oddly late in the NFL offseason, which drew some criticism from head coach Sean Payton. He also missed nine games last year due to the nagging ankle injury, which made the decision to delay surgery even more questionable.

When Thomas is on the field, there’s no denying his talent. He surpassed 90 receptions in his first four NFL seasons, and led the league in catches with 125 in 2018 and 149 in 2019. Thomas was named First-Team All-Pro each of those years. The Saints could use him in 2021, but bad blood with his coach might be enough to force a trade once he’s healthy.

They already made up.. a guy with bad blood isn’t gonna be on the sidelines at away games when he’s not playing

 

[NFL Mystique]

Nobody is firing Bill, that I can guarantee you.

Nor should he be fired.

He's an iconic coach.

 

[50-yard-line]

I really don’t care that they didn’t pay him more. I care that they let it get to the point where he was only worth a 6th round pick. That’s a mismanagement of assets and the same thing happened with Garoppolo.

I said earlier that BB's gambits with Thuney and Gilmore didn't pan out. I know he wanted to keep Thuney - he loved Thuney. But he's got his price-point and a desperate KC (After that last Superbowl) outbid him. I think he wanted to extend Gilmore, but didn't anticipate the injury and now the holdout.

Shrug.

He could have sacrificed a lot more draft capital than either of them would have brought - Thuney none, but $14 million more $, Gilmore maybe what? A third, even a second? - in trading up in the draft to number 11 and taking Fields. So, if he had done that, getting more CAP and a second round pick, then trading a couple of future 1sts, or a first next year and a second the year after, and traded up in Round 1 this year (as so many here were screaming for), is he a better or worse GM?

Win some, lose some.

Look at the Lions and Collins (and oh my god, they better not hand this team to Patricia!), or the Cowboys and Smith - or any number of transactions all over the league where teams are eating money and losing players. Last year, the Ravens franchised Judon for $16 million, didn't go deep in the playoffs, and lost him to the Pats for 14/per for 4. Was that a blunder?

To be clear, I agree that both Thuney and Gilmore wound up being mistakes. I'm just saying that the fans of any and every team in the league could make these same complaints year after year. Hindsight is easy.

 

[Ring 6]

What happens if the Patriots miss the postseason in 2021 and 2022. Bill decides he wants to coach in 2023. Kraft wants him to retire.

Point is if he doesn't want to step down, there's an issue.

Idk.

That's hypothetical.

Why don’t you go to a chiefs board and talk about Andy Reid’s cholesterol?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Gilmore is expected to pass his physical today. It was never about his quad. It was always the contract.

Never and always. Hmm. Maybe. But yes, the contract was what it was. He got money up front, he wanted more than he signed for on the back end, at that point "The Patriot Way" kicks in. It seems like it ended up in a "no hard feelings" resolution. We just don't have the cap money.

Bear in mind, the rights we sold were to 10 games (assuming bye week after week 6.) For future years, this puts us right back into the pack to bid on his services. If he knocks it out of the park, Carolina is a cinch to re-sign him. If he's shading toward "meh," someone will still likely pay him for his past performance. But after those 10 games, we will be evaluating him for a bid just like anybody else. We probably won't be his highest bidder. And we wouldn't have been.

Edit: When I say "we just don't have the cap money," it means, we were not going to spend what he wanted before his deal was due, and after the injury, too bad so sad. We aren't paying for good memories. So it's a chance for him to prove himself to someone who'll pay.

 

[Ring 6]

Worst is that this 6th rounder is for 2023 draft!!!

BillB blew it. Should have traded him before the draft (2nd, 3rd, or 4th pick) this past April, and immediate negotiate with JC Jackson for a long term deal.

NOW, Patriots may lose both (one gone, one to go).

Sigh.

Why would you think he could have gotten any more for an injured player who couldnt pass a physical and was on the last year of his contract crying about more money?
Assuming he can play within a month his value was lower then than it is now.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Beauty of hindsight.

Obviously using hindsight means Brady goes #1 OA in 2000 draft.

It's tougher in the moment of course.

That said, GM's still need to somewhat be held accountable for the end results.

Grier ended up making one of the worst decisions in franchise history. It'll likely cost them another decade or so of mediocre football.

I understand what you're saying. It's not hindsight if you were calling for it before/at the time. As many were but again I get what you're saying.

Happens all the time with the draft. We should have drafted "X" ... It might be worth bringing up if you were for/against before/at the time but yea draft day is a big one with hindsight.

 

[Pats2000]

Some posters have mentioned the possibility of Bill being fired. Thing is, who is out there and available that's a better coach than him?

There are none.

Would Kraft want to be known as the guy who fired a 6 time SB coach? It would send shockwaves throughout the sports world.

Maybe we could get Arians from TB

 

[NFL Mystique]

Why don’t you go to a chiefs board and talk about Andy Reid’s cholesterol?

Andy has bad cholesterol.

There's not much to talk about.

 

[Ring 6]

I understand what you're saying. It's not hindsight if you were calling for it before/at the time. As many were but again I get what you're saying.

Happens all the time with the draft. We should have drafted "X" ... It might be worth bringing up if you were for/against before/at the time but yea draft day is a big one with hindsight.

There are soooo many variables.
First you could only trade up to the trade deadline, so if you believe Gilmore was the best player on your roster and he was signed through 2021, you would be giving up on 2020.
Further in 2020 you know you have a crapload of cap space next year to rebuild your team, so why would you trade away the best player you have so you create another hole to fill in your rebuild.
There was no predicting he would get injured. At the trade deadline the plan could very well have been to extend him in 2021 with a new signing bonus to make him happy with his cash.
Ive never been big on dumping your best players and thinking that’s how you get better.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy has bad cholesterol.

There's not much to talk about.

I was more concerned with the location than than the topic.

 

[NFL Mystique]

I was more concerned with the location than than the topic.

Oh.

 

[PScottman]

Okay so somebody wants to get rid of Judon. Sort of mind-boggling, but that's the world you're in when the goal is to sell at the top.

What's the rationale? We can get top dollar now in terms of draft capital?

He was kidding, but I think that's to your point of the hyperbolic reactions to the fact that the Patriots cant accurately predict the future with stunning results.

 

[1960Pats]

They were paying him what he's worth. Or does the 13M AAV mean NOTHING to you?

I wasn't talking about the past. I was talking about the future. Do we know what they offered him moving forward? What if NOTHING is what they offered him?

Bill has always been known to let go of some top players early rather than pay them later, but that philosophy seems to have led to more of the quality players leaving than before.

 

[Biffins]

Mac Jones is in a unique situation where he is a rookie starting for a team expecting to win now. As a result, he is playing a much more restricted brand of football than you usually see when a rookie is starting.

I love Herbert but let's also keep in mind he has Keenan Allen and Michael Williams.

And the $165m we spent in FA to get TEs and WRs and RBs?!?!?

 

[1960Pats]

Nobody is firing Bill, that I can guarantee you.

The more likely scenario is that Bill would resign. I'd miss him for sure on the sidelines but not so much in his pressers.

 

[Brady6]

I said earlier that BB's gambits with Thuney and Gilmore didn't pan out. I know he wanted to keep Thuney - he loved Thuney. But he's got his price-point and a desperate KC (After that last Superbowl) outbid him. I think he wanted to extend Gilmore, but didn't anticipate the injury and now the holdout.

Shrug.

He could have sacrificed a lot more draft capital than either of them would have brought - Thuney none, but $14 million more $, Gilmore maybe what? A third, even a second? - in trading up in the draft to number 11 and taking Fields. So, if he had done that, getting more CAP and a second round pick, then trading a couple of future 1sts, or a first next year and a second the year after, and traded up in Round 1 this year (as so many here were screaming for), is he a better or worse GM?

Win some, lose some.

Look at the Lions and Collins (and oh my god, they better not hand this team to Patricia!), or the Cowboys and Smith - or any number of transactions all over the league where teams are eating money and losing players. Last year, the Ravens franchised Judon for $16 million, didn't go deep in the playoffs, and lost him to the Pats for 14/per for 4. Was that a blunder?

To be clear, I agree that both Thuney and Gilmore wound up being mistakes. I'm just saying that the fans of any and every team in the league could make these same complaints year after year. Hindsight is easy.

Every team can say they lost the best QB ever, arguably the best TE better, the 2019 DPOY, the 2019 DPOY runner up and a pro bowl LG in the last 5 years?

 

[Biffins]

We should merge this thread with the Collins signing. It would have a lot of explanatory power.

We needed cash, knowing Detroit was releasing Collins. It's even conceivable gears were turning in Pats/Lions organizations and b/w Collins' people and the Patriots.

The real trade isn't Gilmore for a 6th rounder. The real trade is Gilmore for Collins. Do I like getting knocked way down in trade value because of urgency, if that's what happened... no

Per my core dump yesterday, I'm not sold on the idea that teams are lining up to pick up a guy off the PUP list (hence, I think, the 6th in 2023). But if we were ready to straight release him for the cap room in order to make Collins happen, well, at least there's some additional motivation there. There was a guy targeted, and apparently we didn't think he was going to last long on the open market. Or maybe we were halfway to a deal - make the money available when he's released and the deal happens... don't **** us around though.

::shrug:: All I keep saying is, I don't know anything. But it's impressive how little linkage existed between these two situations until the probability wavefronts collapsed or we opened the box with the cat in it or whatever

What nonsense.

So when we were spending $165m in FA we forgot we had to pay Gilmore $7m and now we were cash strapped and begging him to restructure and pissing him off to the point he needed to be traded. Meanwhile he’s playing out that existing contract in another team instead.

In what universe is Gilmore not worth $7m pro-rated for the rest of this season, even if he was injured.

This just feels like another massive Belichikian blunder.

 

[1960Pats]

And the $165m we spent in FA to get TEs and WRs and RBs?!?!?

I think it's too early to be down on this team. The offense is almost all new players, including the QB, and it will take some time for them to gel. Luckily they have a defense that can keep them in games.

 

[1960Pats]

Every team can say they lost the best QB ever, arguably the best TE better, the 2019 DPOY, the 2019 DPOY runner up and a pro bowl LG in the last 5 years?

The frequency of those losses seems to have increased over the years.