Patriots Player Departure Gibby to the Cards

[DaBruinz]

Muma was on one team for three years, Jacksonville, a new regime came in and cleaned house.

Last season he was on two teams as he bounced around before potentially finding a home here. He earned his way onto the active roster as Gibbens and Tavai failed to impress when pressed into starting duty.

Muma has been in the league 4 years, so he couldn't rightly be on "3 teams in 5 years." I think this is a case of DaBruinz leaping to disagree with Wozzy rather than knowing what he's actually talking about.

No. It's called a typo. But then, you always assume the worst about others. OH.. BTW, since you talked about pertinent information and Muma was on 3 teams in one year. He was on Jax through Training Camp, got cut, was picked up by Indy, and got cut again. That should tell you just how "talented" he actually is.

Oh yeah, and Gibbens was a restricted free agent, the Pats have all the money in the world and had the right of first refusal. If they wanted to retain him they could have... they didn't even tender him. They didn't want him... what does that tell you?

So, Muma is "athletic and really strong". Muma is not replacing anyone at this point. That's what YOU can't grasp. Muma hasn't shown he is capable of anything beyond special teams play. He wasn't exactly a stand-out for the Pats in his 7 games on special teams, either.

You just described Jack Gibbens career prior to coming to New England.

How could I be describing Gibbens career? When was Gibbens cut, picked up and then cut again?? Also, why mention Gibbens?

What you failed to mention is how Jacksonville had two healthy absolute stud inside linebackers in Foyesade Oluokun and Devin Lloyd already. Pretty pertinent information. Hard for a rookie to garner starts with a two time NFL tackle leader and an All Pro in front of him.

Since you brought up Oluokun and Lloyd, let's actually talk about them and paint MORE of the picture. Muma was drafted the same year as Lloyd. Oluokun was signed that same year by the Jaguars from the Falcons. So, Pederson was literally replacing ALL his ILBs. The HOPE was for the 3 of them to give the Jags a solid rotation at ILB. Try as they might, Muma never actually stepped up. He was mediocre. As for the new regime, you act like they cut Muma as soon as Liam Coen was named Coach.. They didn't. They gave him ALL Spring and ALL of training camp to earn his spot. Muma couldn't even win a spot on the team as a Special Teams guy on JAX.

The Patriots cut Troy Brown, he spent several weeks out of the NFL before the Patriots finally re-signed him in October of 1994. Did he suck?

Gotta love when people pull the exceptions out of their arse and pretend like it's the norm. Since you yammer on about "pertinent information", you need to be reminded that Troy Brown played 12 games during his rookie year before being hurt, inactive for 3 games and then IRed. In 1994, he was cut by Parcells to send a message to him.. Yes, Troy was out of football from the end of camp to October 19th, 1994. But, even when he re-signed, he wasn't anything special. It took 3 years of hard work, Parcells being fired and Pete Carroll being hired for Brown to blossom. OH.. And Brown was an 8th round pick at the time.. Not a 3rd round who many thought would go in the 2nd round because he was "talented"//

That's why Ellis was a starter... because of contract? Silly...

Not what was said. But then, you have a penchant for not reading what's actually stated. I stated that the only reason I felt he was kept currently was because of the guaranteed money..

Just because someone "is a starter" doesn't mean they're actually GOOD.
I can find all sorts of "starters" in Pats history that were plain awful.

I fully expect them to add to the position in the draft also, the more talented bodies you have in camp and higher level of competition the better. Muma and Ellis are talented... Gibbens and Tavai much less so. That's why they're gone already.

You can keep claiming that Muma is talented. However, the reality is that he's athletic and has failed to show he's talented. He's failed to hold a job on 2 Pro Rosters. Even as a Top Special Teamer. Yet, YOU, in your finite wisdom, think he's all but guaranteed a spot on the roster. You think he provides a high level of competition, but in reality, he doesn't. He's a bottom of the roster guy who may or may not make the 53 man roster out of camp.

Elliss has athleticism. He's lacking in his play recognition in the run game regularly hitting the wrong hole, he misses way too many tackles, and he's a liability in coverage (29/33 reg, 8/9 post). All the athleticism in the world doesn't help if you aren't where you're supposed to be or you can't make the tackle when you're supposed to.

Gibbens is gone because the Pats didn't feel he was worth 3.5M/yr as an RFA. He's 27 and though he stepped in for Spillane, he was a significant step down. What's funny is that you think I am lamenting Gibbens being gone. Hint: I'm not.

Tavai is gone because he didn't fit the system well, is 29, and wasn't worth the Cap hit (over $8m) in the mind of the Vrabel & Co. Again, I'm not lamenting him being gone.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Quite a battle, but to my untrained eye it was Spillane and everybody else. There was a noticeable difference when Spillane was out, and Gibbens wasn't up to the task. Except for Spillane, the rest are pretty meh, and the staff is looking for upgrades. I liked tavai, but I understand he's replaceable. Same with Gibby and Ellis ... likeable but replaceable.

 

[Wozzy]

Quite a battle, but to my untrained eye it was Spillane and everybody else. There was a noticeable difference when Spillane was out, and Gibbens wasn't up to the task. Except for Spillane, the rest are pretty meh, and the staff is looking for upgrades. I liked tavai, but I understand he's replaceable. Same with Gibby and Ellis ... likeable but replaceable.

Two different tools for two different jobs, Spillane was better at the Mike taking on the run. Ellis was better at Will behind him in coverage and catching up to runners the front whiffed on because he is much more fast and athletic than Spillane is.

Gibbens was neither, he was too weak to be your leading tackler against the run and not athletic enough to play in space.

 

[Wozzy]

No. It's called a typo. But then, you always assume the worst about others. OH.. BTW, since you talked about pertinent information and Muma was on 3 teams in one year. He was on Jax through Training Camp, got cut, was picked up by Indy, and got cut again. That should tell you just how "talented" he actually is.

A "typo" is when you type an exclamation point instead of a one... not when you say something factually wrong.

So, Muma is "athletic and really strong". Muma is not replacing anyone at this point. That's what YOU can't grasp. Muma hasn't shown he is capable of anything beyond special teams play. He wasn't exactly a stand-out for the Pats in his 7 games on special teams, either.

Mike Vrabel didn't start a single game his first four years. A young player not starting is no reason to write them off or say they're no good.

How could I be describing Gibbens career? When was Gibbens cut, picked up and then cut again?? Also, why mention Gibbens?

Since you brought up Oluokun and Lloyd, let's actually talk about them and paint MORE of the picture. Muma was drafted the same year as Lloyd. Oluokun was signed that same year by the Jaguars from the Falcons. So, Pederson was literally replacing ALL his ILBs. The HOPE was for the 3 of them to give the Jags a solid rotation at ILB. Try as they might, Muma never actually stepped up. He was mediocre. As for the new regime, you act like they cut Muma as soon as Liam Coen was named Coach.. They didn't. They gave him ALL Spring and ALL of training camp to earn his spot. Muma couldn't even win a spot on the team as a Special Teams guy on JAX.

New Regime, they want their guys.

Lloyd was a 1st round pick. Olukun led the entire NFL in tackles the year before he came to Jacksonville. Do some research.

Now you just want me to repeat myself.

Gotta love when people pull the exceptions out of their arse and pretend like it's the norm. Since you yammer on about "pertinent information", you need to be reminded that Troy Brown played 12 games during his rookie year before being hurt, inactive for 3 games and then IRed. In 1994, he was cut by Parcells to send a message to him.. Yes, Troy was out of football from the end of camp to October 19th, 1994. But, even when he re-signed, he wasn't anything special. It took 3 years of hard work, Parcells being fired and Pete Carroll being hired for Brown to blossom. OH.. And Brown was an 8th round pick at the time.. Not a 3rd round who many thought would go in the 2nd round because he was "talented"//

Chaisson was a first round pick and considered a bust... now he's not. Rookies can take time, regardless of where they're drafted.

Not what was said. But then, you have a penchant for not reading what's actually stated. I stated that the only reason I felt he was kept currently was because of the guaranteed money..

Another typo no doubt...

Just because someone "is a starter" doesn't mean they're actually GOOD.
I can find all sorts of "starters" in Pats history that were plain awful.

Not on what was easily a top five defense when healthy.

You can keep claiming that Muma is talented. However, the reality is that he's athletic and has failed to show he's talented. He's failed to hold a job on 2 Pro Rosters. Even as a Top Special Teamer. Yet, YOU, in your finite wisdom, think he's all but guaranteed a spot on the roster. You think he provides a high level of competition, but in reality, he doesn't. He's a bottom of the roster guy who may or may not make the 53 man roster out of camp.

Elliss has athleticism. He's lacking in his play recognition in the run game regularly hitting the wrong hole, he misses way too many tackles, and he's a liability in coverage (29/33 reg, 8/9 post). All the athleticism in the world doesn't help if you aren't where you're supposed to be or you can't make the tackle when you're supposed to.

Gibbens is gone because the Pats didn't feel he was worth 3.5M/yr as an RFA. He's 27 and though he stepped in for Spillane, he was a significant step down. What's funny is that you think I am lamenting Gibbens being gone. Hint: I'm not.

Tavai is gone because he didn't fit the system well, is 29, and wasn't worth the Cap hit (over $8m) in the mind of the Vrabel & Co. Again, I'm not lamenting him being gone.

This ^ is a lot of talking for you not caring about Gibbens that much. I didn't even say Muma was good, just athletic... more than Gibbens, So again, this was more about you disagreeing with Wozzy than actually having a point.

 

[condon84]

Anyone who thinks Gibbens is decent/good, I question whether they watched Patriots games.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Anyone who thinks Gibbens is decent/good, I question whether they watched Patriots games.

I agree. Must have missed the SB too.

When a player has to sign with the Cards or Jets, you know it is a bottom of the barrel situation. I wish Gibby all the best.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Why has this gone on for 5 pages? It shouldn't have even gone past 2.

Same with Kindle Vildor.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I agree. Must have missed the SB too.

When a player has to sign with the Cards or Jets, you know it is a bottom of the barrel situation. I wish Gibby all the best.

That is a very good gauge of how a player is though of by the rest of the league. The reality is that all teams churn the lower half of their rosters with the goal to get better, cheaper, younger. This leaves players like Gibbens on the wrong end of the equation so they have to be pragmatic if they want to keep playing.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That is a very good gauge of how a player is though of by the rest of the league. The reality is that all teams churn the lower half of their rosters with the goal to get better, cheaper, younger. This leaves players like Gibbens on the wrong end of the equation so they have to be pragmatic if they want to keep playing.

That is a great way of saying it.