NFL News General NFL News/Discussion

[Uptown]

We can name 20 or so players and coaches New England hasn’t won a playoff game since they left.

It’s a joke. Relax.

 

[Wozzy]

It’s a joke. Relax.

I’m fully relaxed thanks.

 

[Steve102]

 

[silentone]

Like anything 'new' stats are good and bad depending on what they actually are. Expected Yards per Attempt for example seems to be one that's a pretty good indicator.

PFF does one thing really well, aggregate actual counting stats. Anyone relying on them for their grading is tilting at windmills. It's far too subjective. And it does gaslight fans into thinking Verdarian Lowe, Sidy Sow and Mike Onwenu are "good", actually, when your eyes tell you a completely different story. Like for me, personally, a 'QB Pressure' has to actually affect the play for it to matter. For PFF it doesn't. And since they don't know what a particular blocking scheme is on every given play (they guess), they assign pressures to the wrong people way, way too often. Same with 'win rate' for offensive linemen. It's awesome Morgan Moses "wins" his matchup against his guy when it's a run to the left side. PFF counts that.

Hi Tommy D - I enjoy PFF but have no idea as to its accuracy. However, it's my understanding that all 32 NFL teams pay real money ($150k? per team) and it's also used by 130 FBS programs. If that is true, it would seem there is some real value add else they wouldn't pay, right? I'm curious if you believe that all NFL teams are paying real money for it and if you believe it, is it fair to say they must find some value in it. I also find it interesting that a top private equity firm, Silver Lake, with over $100 Billion in aum, acquired a "significant minority stake" in 2021. That investment doesn't mean PFF is good, but I'm guessing they spent a lot of time trying to understand the value propostion and decided there was/is one. The information I've written here was from playing around with AI so maybe some of it's factual wrong. But if all the NFL teams are really paying for it and a top private equity firm really invested in it, I'm guessing PFF is adding some real value.

In considering the other side of the argument, that PFF is junk-ish. I guess if I had to argue that side of it, I'd go with things such as:
- some grades don't seem to pass the eye test
- there is no solid proof nfl teams are paying $150,000
- we don't know what services the nfl gets for the $150,000 and that could be quite different than what I see
- those services may have little to do with how I use PFF which is to simply look up player grades
- top private equity firms make plenty of poor investments, their investment isn't proof of value add
- the grades are too subjective

As I consider both sides of the arguement, I find the first (that PFF adds real value and is useful) more compelling than the second (that PFF doesn't add value and is junk-ish).

 

[TommyD4207]

Hi Tommy D - I enjoy PFF but have no idea as to its accuracy. However, it's my understanding that all 32 NFL teams pay real money ($150k? per team) and it's also used by 130 FBS programs. If that is true, it would seem there is some real value add else they wouldn't pay, right? I'm curious if you believe that all NFL teams are paying real money for it and if you believe it, is it fair to say they must find some value in it. I also find it interesting that a top private equity firm, Silver Lake, with over $100 Billion in aum, acquired a "significant minority stake" in 2021. That investment doesn't mean PFF is good, but I'm guessing they spent a lot of time trying to understand the value propostion and decided there was/is one. The information I've written here was from playing around with AI so maybe some of it's factual wrong. But if all the NFL teams are really paying for it and a top private equity firm really invested in it, I'm guessing PFF is adding some real value.

In considering the other side of the argument, that PFF is junk-ish. I guess if I had to argue that side of it, I'd go with things such as:
- some grades don't seem to pass the eye test
- there is no solid proof nfl teams are paying $150,000
- we don't know what services the nfl gets for the $150,000 and that could be quite different than what I see
- those services may have little to do with how I use PFF which is to simply look up player grades
- top private equity firms make plenty of poor investments, their investment isn't proof of value add
- the grades are too subjective

As I consider both sides of the arguement, I find the first (that PFF adds real value and is useful) more compelling than the second (that PFF doesn't add value and is junk-ish).

They pay for their stat aggregation (which PFF does excellently, btw), and interpret those stats specific to their own programs, which suits them best.

The good teams, anyway, there's still the old mentality out there with some programs, back when they used to share scouting services and target the same players as a result - and I'm sure there are some college programs that skimp money with their own scouting.

Also bear in mind, an NFL franchise paying $150k for a full and complete statistic aggregation service, would be the equivalent of you buying a single iced coffee from Dunkin' Donuts.

 

[silentone]

They pay for their stat aggregation (which PFF does excellently, btw), and interpret those stats specific to their own programs, which suits them best.

The good teams, anyway, there's still the old mentality out there with some programs, back when they used to share scouting services and target the same players as a result - and I'm sure there are some college programs that skimp money with their own scouting.

Also bear in mind, an NFL franchise paying $150k for a full and complete statistic aggregation service, would be the equivalent of you buying a single iced coffee from Dunkin' Donuts.

Thanks for helping better understand this. I didn't realize that NFL teams use PFF, it sounds like, primarily for the stat aggregation.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

 

[maust]

GinnyF FTW, "You can't get behind the chains" is next level stuff, right up there with "The outcome depends on who shows up to play football." Cause I am 1000% sure the team that shows up to play tiddlywinks is gonna get killed

 

[Uptown]

@maust I’m happy to be of assistance to you. This game can be extremely complex..

 

[maust]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

Def a 'one too many hits to the head' comment

 

[maust]

@maust I’m happy to be of assistance to you. This game can be extremely complex..

I'm still waiting for the right moment to work in "Once those guys cross the white lines, there's nothing coaching can do for them," I know the perfect moment will come, I don't want to waste it on some mundane play.

 

[Koma]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

He put a bounty on his own brain?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

That's as bad as the Patriots fans in this forum who wanted to trade the Drake Maye pick for Justin Fields.

 

[The Gr8est]

That's as bad as the Patriots fans in this forum who wanted to trade the Drake Maye pick for Justin Fields.

So…..

Who would fetch more in a trade?

Mac Jones or JJ McCarthy?

 

[sb1]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

They must have been as impressed with this McCorkle gem as I was.



If I was the defender I would have waved at it like it was a fair catch. I don't think he would have liked that very much but cmon dude you threw it...

 

[Huckleberry1]

So…..

Who would fetch more in a trade?

Mac Jones or JJ McCarthy?

McCarthy, everyone has already seen Jones ceiling. Thank god the Patriots stayed put and took Maye.

 

[Grogan14]

Is Vilma suffering from CTE?? Seriously though, won’t happen, but I’d LOVE if they made this travesty of a trade.

Please Please make that trade jets

 

[Uptown]

Yes, Pittsburgh under Tomlin has been the epitome of mediocrity the last decade, but if this is indeed true; I truly wish him & his family the best.

 

[Uptown]