Gasper: Patriots are feeling Colts' draft

[mgteich]

While I agree with your sentiments about the fans, it is downright embarrassing to think that we are one of the best passing teams ever, and Belichick expected Brady to be the best counting on Aiken and Stanback as receivers.

You're wasting your breath. An ever increasing segment of this fan base expects to win it all every season, got addicted to attending superbowls and trolling their rivals, and after 4 disappointments in a row there are no excuses.

Remember how Atlanta Braves fans became notoriously complacent, team couldn't sell out early round playoff tickets because the fan's weren't interested in anything beyond championship round play...that's who this fanbase has become...either win it all or you suck and don't deserve me. Competitive, the thing pats fans would have sold their soul for for years, is crap. They all want the team to take the window approach and the future be damned. Of course until the future arrives...at which time they will be pissed and calling for BB to be canned and Brady traded because they aren't winning at all anymore and as fans they deserve better...

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

How does a team who's won 3 Superbowls in 4 years "catch up" to a team who's going to their second in four seasons.

He's really not worth the click. imho of course.

You'd have a point if it was 3 out of the last 4 years. I appreciate you sticking up for our boys, but we lost 6 games this year, lost in the first round of the playoffs, after missing the playoffs all together last year, AND we lost to Indy this year to boot.

Indy lost 2 games all year, while resting their starters, and are in the Super Bowl. I for one am not too blinded by home loyalty to admit who needs to do the catching up.

I fully expect we will too, unless BB gets cute again, and trades for later picks in the draft and in future years, rather than bringing in some stud talent NOW. Missing on free agent talent, and trading for players who we later cut hasn't helped either, IMHO.

We will catch up and be the dominant team once again, but it's hard to argue we don't, again IMHO.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

I don't know what it is, but the Colts manage to plug in guys with no talent on both sides of the ball and are still successful.
See June, Cato. He's made fewer tackles in the last 3 years combined than he did in his last year with the Colts.
Wanna know the real secret to the Colts success? Coaching continuity. They have had the same staff for 10 years.

Exactly. It's sad. So much for the "BB plays to be competitive all the time, not just this year!". Well, yes, I think that's great. Not blowing up the cap on FAs, etc. But you DO that by DRAFTING WELL. We haven't.

It's not that I'm spoiled, I just expect better drafting. They need to hire some outside the bubble for some 2nd opinions. Guss Scott? Dexter Reid? I mean it goes on and on.

Somehow the Colts play a crappy no-name can't stop the run defense. But they are so small and quick that the #1 running team can't run that well on them and they end up doing pretty darn well. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we've got how many #1s on defense? And we can't do jack. Rice for 83 yards.

We need difference schemes, different coaching, different drafting. Sorry, that's how I see it.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

:wha:

Excuse me! How is that Scott Pioli got so much acclaim as a personnel man? Wasn't Pioli the front man of the player personnel dept?

I was deliriously happy when Pioli left the Pats because of the Pats' poor drafts starting with 2006. I blame Pioli for giving BB poor recommendations and/or poor scouting reports. Only 4 picks of the 2006-2008 drafts have had an impact. Pathetic, and, imo, Pioli is largely responsible.

BB has the most impt draft of his Pats tenure coming up; he knows what this team needs. I think this draft will go down as one of the Pats' best ever.

I hope so. I had high hopes for Brace and Chung as well as the others and so far, nada. How can a defensive guru not know what he needs on defense? Disappointed.

And the spindly legged maroney, how is a guy with sticks for legs supposed to drive the pile when we have offensive line push at all? I mean I feel bad for the guy.

 

[PatsDoc]

You're wasting your breath. An ever increasing segment of this fan base expects to win it all every season, got addicted to attending superbowls and trolling their rivals, and after 4 disappointments in a row there are no excuses.

Remember how Atlanta Braves fans became notoriously complacent, team couldn't sell out early round playoff tickets because the fan's weren't interested in anything beyond championship round play...that's who this fanbase has become...either win it all or you suck and don't deserve me. Competitive, the thing pats fans would have sold their soul for for years, is crap. They all want the team to take the window approach and the future be damned. Of course until the future arrives...at which time they will be pissed and calling for BB to be canned and Brady traded because they aren't winning at all anymore and as fans they deserve better...

Tom Brady in the onoin...

Tom Brady: 'I'd Have Booed Us Too, But Patriots Fans Are Still Ungrateful Front-Running ****heads' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[TheComeback]

Rhodes, Sheppard among Jets expected to take off

The Jets aren't going anywhere next year. You thought we had issues? Check this out:


"Safety Kerry Rhodes: The New York Post writes that Rhodes' chances of returning are as likely 'Rex Ryan running the New York Marathon.'

Cornerbacks Lito Sheppard and Donald Strickland: The team is expected to release both players. So the Jets need a lot of help in the secondary.

Vernon Gholston: As mentioned in today's one-liners, the Newark Star-Ledger reports that "some in the organization are ready to move on" from the sixth pick in the 2008 draft. They could cut him with cap ramifications . . . since there won't be a cap.

Thomas Jones: We wrote about this Sunday; the team faces a difficult choice considering the veteran running back's salary."


Couple that with an aging offensive line, only 2 draft picks in the top 100, no ability to sign free agents, and you get a team that goes 7-9 next year. If they're lucky.

If Jones goes, who shares the load with Shonn Greene? Leon Washington isn't the kind of back who can run up the middle on a regular basis, which is what the Jets do. I see them relying on Greene to have most of the carries in 2010, which means he will start wearing down in late November. They aren't going to repeat the success of 2009. Sorry Jest fans.

The Jets aren't going to be an elite team for a while, if ever.

The Dolphins will be more dangerous than the Jets if they have a good offseason. But the Pats are still #1 in the two most important categories: head coach and quarterback. If we make the right moves this offseason, we win the division again.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

While I agree with your sentiments about the fans, it is downright embarrassing to think that we are one of the best passing teams ever, and Belichick expected Brady to be the best counting on Aiken and Stanback as receivers.

Who says he did? He made moves last offseason he likely expected to maintain if not improve Tom's odds for success. He also made what I believe are some unfortunate miscalculations when assessing not only what he had but what he was adding to or replacing with. By the time you realize that, be it late in camp or in pre season or early in season, it's too late to do anything about it. In a timing offense, let alone one predicated on WR's and not just the QB reading defenses pre and post snap, it's rare you can add a body and expect it do accomplish much more than taking up space. He went with the guys he had who were at least familiar with the offense and hope they could step up their game. Edleman did, but then his arm broke. Stanbeck likely did the best he could do considering he was brought in to be the PS/Scout Team/QB3.

I remain convinced what they need to maximize the asset Brady is and keep from getting him killed is to speed up and diversify this offense with an improved running game and a lot more consistent short to intermediate targets . Because the alternative requires more than a complimentary deep threat Brady can't reach from the turf. Brady did fine in 2006 absent a deep threat, the problems arose when his #1 simply couldn't be counted on to make the routine catch when that was all you needed. Give me 4 solid receivers who will run disiplined routes and make determined catches and fight for balls in coverage and yardage after the catch and to get open and step up under pressure. We had that back in the day. That's what I saw Manning and Brees and even Favre working with this weekend. Tough, physical, disciplined receivers.

I think we have two of those players on the roster already, only one of them will likely start the season on PUP. Tate may be another but given his injury history you can't count on it. They need to identify 2-3 additional prospects in FA, RFA, or the draft, one of which might be a TE, and let Brady focus on them and Edleman as if they're it this offseason - like he did back in 2002-03 developing Branch and Givens. Some won't like that, but treading water the last two seasons waiting for the 2007 do-over hasn't lead this team where it wants to go.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Tom Brady in the onoin...

Tom Brady: 'I'd Have Booed Us Too, But Patriots Fans Are Still Ungrateful Front-Running ****heads' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

About sums it up...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Rhodes, Sheppard among Jets expected to take off

The Jets aren't going anywhere next year. You thought we had issues? Check this out:


"Safety Kerry Rhodes: The New York Post writes that Rhodes' chances of returning are as likely 'Rex Ryan running the New York Marathon.'

Cornerbacks Lito Sheppard and Donald Strickland: The team is expected to release both players. So the Jets need a lot of help in the secondary.

Vernon Gholston: As mentioned in today's one-liners, the Newark Star-Ledger reports that "some in the organization are ready to move on" from the sixth pick in the 2008 draft. They could cut him with cap ramifications . . . since there won't be a cap.

Thomas Jones: We wrote about this Sunday; the team faces a difficult choice considering the veteran running back's salary."


Couple that with an aging offensive line, only 2 draft picks in the top 100, no ability to sign free agents, and you get a team that goes 7-9 next year. If they're lucky.

If Jones goes, who shares the load with Shonn Greene? Leon Washington isn't the kind of back who can run up the middle on a regular basis, which is what the Jets do. I see them relying on Greene to have most of the carries in 2010, which means he will start wearing down in late November. They aren't going to repeat the success of 2009. Sorry Jest fans.

The Jets aren't going to be an elite team for a while, if ever.

The Dolphins will be more dangerous than the Jets if they have a good offseason. But the Pats are still #1 in the two most important categories: head coach and quarterback. If we make the right moves this offseason, we win the division again.

Gholston will be the gift that keeps on giving. The cap ramifications for cutting him in 2010 would be a non issue. HOWEVER, there is no cap acceleration in an uncapped season, and in fact the rules call for the teams cutting players to have to continue to carry their amortization as scheduled as dead cap for the remainder of their contract. So when the cap returns, and it will, Gholston will still be costing the JETS millions through 2013...even if he's long gone.

 

[everlong]

By putting 3 disparate groups together, you make a non-issue seem like an issue.

This may be something worth re-visiting in a year or two if you're someone who blames teams for injured players. Other than that, it's a non-issue.

I don't really care if somebody disagrees with my opinion but don't be a condescending ass-hat about it.

The three disparate groups do tell a tale because they are the 3 areas the Pats have struggled with in the draft the most and the three strengths of the Colts.

 

[muzz]

About sums it up...

Lord knows the Onion has the real scoop on everything.........

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't really care if somebody disagrees with my opinion but don't be a condescending ass-hat about it.

The three disparate groups do tell a tale because they are the 3 areas the Pats have struggled with in the draft the most and the three strengths of the Colts.

1.) I wasn't being condescending. I noted the problem created by putting disparate groups together and broke down an example of it, while pointing out how it was actually a non-issue as a result. I followed that up with a caveat, because some people actually do hold it against teams when players careers are derailed by injury, although I don't. If you find that condescending, that's on you. You made a sloppy and poor argument, and I responded by showing an example of the problems with it. It was nothing more than that.

2.) The groups don't tell a tale, and the linebackers are a perfect example of why, and they are where you omitted a "complete bust" player for the Colts, as well.

3.) The receivers are just about as meaningless, since the Patriots have drafted only 3 (Sam, Jackson, Tate), two of whom were clearly 'flier' type picks (Sam, Tate) and one of whom (Tate) certainly hasn't had his complete career analysis written yet, given that he was drafted less than 12 months ago. Even if you toss Slater in the mix, which you didn't, you're really only looking at one significant player there (Jackson), and it ignores the draft trades to get Welker/Moss, which makes it meaningless. Furthermore, your summation ignored Roy Hall of the Colts, who's played in a total of 7 games, with no starts and 1 career reception, since being drafted in 2007. He'd be one of those that I wouldn't include as a bust to this point, due to injury, but since you felt I was being condescending, it's worth pointing him out here, as another mistake you made that I didn't even point out in that initial post.

 

[WelshPat]

Could you explain why you disagree? In Julian Edelman, I see the Piercy Harvin "wow" factor in punt returns and his jukes.

Collie was a highly productive college wr, he out up 60 catches, 670 yards and 7 tds. He's only going to get better, i think he will be one of the top possesion wrs in the nfl in 3 years time.

Edelman is still really raw as a wr, i think it took him a long time to get open when he was asked to replace Welker. I agree that he has upside, and could be very good kick returner (though he will never be in Percy Harvins class). I just think Collie can do more.

 

[WelshPat]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

Colts drafting is nice and all, but it really is all about Peyton. The way he is playing right now, he can make Aiken and Stanback look like Pro-bowlers. It's not like Garcon and Collie are creating great separation against DBs. The DBs are all over them but Peyton puts the ball where his receivers can make the catch. The guy is unreal.

See, Peyton is awsome, but this simply isn't true. Garcon is playing Stallworth and Collie is playing Gaffney. They are getting open and beating 1-1 coverage. Stanback and Aiken can't. They aren't talented enough.

 

[TealSox]

After thinking about this piece for a couple days, I can agree that the Colts have done a decent job of using the draft to stock their roster with talent. But I can't come down on the Patriots for taking another direction, insomuch, as they looked toward veterans to plug holes.

Funny how I didn't read pieces like this when they went to Super Bowl as an undefeated team. Veterans played a big role in that season, including Moss, Gaffney, Stallworth, Colvin and AD Thomas.

Obviously, GMs take a risk of either signing a fairly known commodity and keeping the win machine rolling or hope to hit it big in the draft and once those players peak, jump start the win machine. The Pats have been competitive all decade as a result of a couple good drafts and some key signings. Colts have stumbled at times, but have seem to hit their stride with the guys they have drafted over the years. I have no problem that the front office keep the machine well oiled and competitive every year, but like leaving your hopes on the draft, neither plan is flawless.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I will never forget when Gaspar was on with Felger. Double Douchbaggery at its worse. Just another ahole nabob of negativity in the Boston media.

 

[Nikolai]

Some of the talk earlier on about the Pats 3 Super Bowls has me chuckling a bit. Yes, those were great times, but those memories are becoming smaller and smaller in the rear view mirror. Some people are setting themselves up to sound like Steelers fans in the 90s, going on and on about Super Bowls from twenty years prior.

It's a great history and a great thing to celebrate but it has nothing to do with where the Pats are now, which is looking up to the Colts unfortunately.

 

[Badluck]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

How does a team who's won 3 Superbowls in 4 years "catch up" to a team who's going to their second in four seasons.

He's really not worth the click. imho of course.

yea i mean the bills went to the superbowl 4 times in a row they dont need to catch up to anyone

the pats arent what they used to be simple as that

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the colts have been fantastic in supporting manning.

the pats success has become somewhat undone because rather than continuing to perfect the offense that won them superbowls (efficient mistake-free ball control that could not be slapped around the way it is now), they went into basically a run-and-shoot for the ages. don't know why they waste their time with RB's like fred taylor and laurence maroney....both would have been much more effective in the weis 2 TE and/or 2 in the backfield offense.

the difference is that in indy, it has always been about manning, and since he was a rookie, they have continually tweaked the scheme but basically keeping it the same. enough stretch running plays to freeze the LB's and safeties and basically run timing pass plays so that between the time the defense realizes it is a pass play, that the WR can't be disrupted

the distrubing thing is the kind of deep threat collie and austin have given manning without needing to use wayne. with the way these 2 have developed for the colts, next year they will be even more effective all while costing less than galloway did for the pats this year

coaching is the problem.......since BB is so adamant about doing everything on his own now and having a wafer thin coaching staff, the staff lacks the resources to develop players. it was easy when he was surrounded by head coaching material (weis, crennel, mcdaniel, mangini) ....... the guys he has now look like they can't develop anyone.......draft picks on the team have been pretty flat since they have gotten here meaning they are no better now than they were when they were first drafted......the only exception could be meriweather.....the rest of them, maroney, mankins, mayo, wheatley, wilhite, watson.....they are now what they were when they showed up....none of the young players are developing

 

[Miguel]

Given that the Colts had two former 1st round picks (Marlin Jackson and Anthony Gonzalez) and a 2nd round pick (Bob Sanders) on IR and had a much better season in 2009 than the Patriots irregardless of what happens in the Super Bowl, I think that the Colts had better depth than the Patriots. I ask those who disagree with the notion - "the Colts had better depth than the Patriots" to explain why they feel that the Patriots had better depth than the Colts. Because if the Patriots had better depth than the Colts, it did not show up in the field and more importantly in the win-loss record.

If the Colts had better depth than the Patriots, how did that happen?? If it was not because the Colts have drafted better recently than the Pats, what is it?? If it was not because the Colts have done a better job recently of player development, then what is it???

Because Gasper's main point was
"How do they go about catching up with the Colts? The answer is to beat them at their own game -- the draft and player development.

That's a game the Patriots have lost to the Colts the last few years and it is the primary reason they watched yesterday's AFC Championship game from their living rooms while confetti rained down upon the Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium."

The Colts 2009 draft class will have played in 1 Super Bowl. The Patriots 2009 draft class - 0.
The Colts 2008 draft class will have played in 1 Super Bowl. The Patriots 2008 draft class - 0.
The Colts 2007 draft class will have played in 1 Super Bowl. The Patriots 2007 draft class - 1.
The Colts 2006 draft class will have played in 2 Super Bowls. The Patriots 2006 draft class - 1.
The Colts 2005 draft class will have played in 2 Super Bowls. The Patriots 2005 draft class - 1.
The Colts 2004 draft class will have played in 2 Super Bowls. The Patriots 2004 draft class - 2.
The Colts 2003 draft class will have played in 2 Super Bowls. The Patriots 2004 draft class - 3.

When one has to go back 7 draft classes to have the Patriots draft class to have played in more Super Bowls, one (Gasper) should be able to opine that the Colts have done a better job in drafting recently and in developing players lately without being attacked.


Does anyone really think that the Colts did not have better depth than the Patriots this year??
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