Gasper: Patriots are feeling Colts' draft

[Clonamery]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

because that was eons ago. the pats simply have not been a well run organization from 2005 onward. poor draft choices, bad free agent signings, hiring bad coaches, etc. it all falls on belichick and the media has let it go for the same reason you give (ie-3 super bowls in 4 years).

Eons? Fraud.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

According to all your posts on here, the Patriots suffer from second rate talent, coaching, player development, and drafting. You are quite the fan.

He ain't. Well not of the Pats.

 

[Clonamery]

I'm glad to see more of you coming around to my way of thinking. Good on ye.

Bill's football acumen, both on the field & in the FO, is deteriorating before our eyes, and he's doing absolutely nothing about it.

Edit: Having said that, I also believe that without the Horse-Faced Goober, the dolts would be a .500 team, at best. Hell, they should've been only an 11-5 team this season, at best.

I keep telling you to submit your resume. Once Kraft sees what kind of football gold you are, he will kick BB to the curb.

 

[Clonamery]

… blanketing Peyton Manning's top targets of Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark like a Snuggie …

… with Welker rendered hors de combat …

… Polian and the Colts got better bargains than a Black Monday shopper…

… but it's like putting buckets on the floor for a leaky ceiling …

… Dante Scarnecchia is a master at turning putty into players …

Boy, that li'l Gasper fella sure can turn a phrase, can't he? What a great football writer! :bricks:

High School. Maybe he watches Glee and is inspired.

 

[Deus Irae]

1.) The Patriots have clearly fallen behind the Colts. Only the clueless can't see that. However, the margin isn't exactly a chasm.

2.) The "fallen behind" only happened once Brady went down in 2008.

3.) If last year's rookies can make the second year jump, the team can pull in some linebackers and keep Wilfork, and the team has a decent draft, the Patriots could easily get back ahead of the Colts in 2010.


Much of next season's success will be determined by the recovery of Welker and how much more "Brady = Brady" we get in comparison to this past season.

 

[Miguel]

DraftHistory.com
DraftHistory.com
may also be of help.

 

[vyrago]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

Their 2 appearances have both happened more recently since our last win

I'd say we're playing catch up

Appearances=wins?

Then we have a more recent "win" so who's playing catchup?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

Appearances=wins?

Then we have a more recent "win" so who's playing catchup?

Given that the Colts now have the more recent appearance as well as the more recent win, it's pretty clear that the Patriots are playing "catch up".

 

[DEVIOUS 1]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

The Pats have not been as bad as all that. Lets not forget a 16-0 season and a SB appearance. We got beat by the Giants but we were there. That season was not a failure. The next year Brady goes down to a season ending injury and this year the Pats win the division, but have a very disappointing home play off loss.

Since 2005 the Pats have suffered from a drain on their coaching and front office personnel. That drain is a direct result of other teams trying to emulate the Pats success. How many Colts FO staff or coaches have become GMs, or HCs in the last 5 years? Now look at the Pats: Weis, Crennel, Mangini, McDaniels, Pioli, Dimetroff all leaving for promotions with other teams (or in Weis' case the ND job). So many good people were recruited out of the Pats staff that there has been a brain drain and their replacements haven't performed as well as the originals. Some of those, O'Brien, are still learning on the job and some, Pees, are examples of the peter principle.

The Pats were rebuilding this year (and won the division) and are stacked with draft picks in the next 2 years to rebuild for the long term. There may be misses in those picks but that is just the nature of the draft. The Pats are among the best drafting teams in the league. Complaining because 3rd and 4th round players aren't all pros and 5-7th round players can't make the team is a bit over the top when you look at the quality of players on the team currently and when you consider the league wide averages for what happens to players drafted in those positions.

Do I wish AD wasn't a spoiled athlete, do I wish Chad Jackson wasn't a 2nd round bust? Yes, but for every AD there is a Mike Vrabel, or TBC and for every CJ there is a Vollmer or Edleman. I want the Pats to win every SB but that is unrealistic. As long as they are among the elite teams competing for the SB we as fans should be satisfied. We have one of the greatest QBs and coaches of the SB era. Because of those individuals we will win our fair share of playoff games and SBs.

I think, in context, the staffing issues have been an under sold issue. Everybody is focusing on the draft, the draft, the draft.

Somebody wake me when the Colts as an organization start losing coaches. And when those coaches leave, they hire other position coaches, and hire scouts from there old organization, all that need to be backfilled. How about front office pesonal? How many Colts executives have been sought after?

They lost Dungy, there old DC Ron Meeks, anyone else? They haven't had to deal with any real organizational instability in all these years they have had success. That means something. Sure they've had better drafts then us over the last few years. How many times have the Colts had to replace Polian, or some of Polians assistents? How many times have they had to replace scouts? Positional coaches? If any of you guys think that type of organizational instability doesn't have an effect, your crazy.

So chasing the Colts? Yeah, I guess. But don't be blind to the fact that we're somewhat in this position after years of NFL teams chasing after, and dreaming of being US!

 

[Prufrock]

Maybe this thread will have some relevance if the Colts win the Super Bowl. If the Colts lose, then in the past 10 years the Patriots will have been to four Super Bowls and won three. The Colts would have been to two Super Bowls and won one.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe this thread will have some relevance if the Colts win the Super Bowl. If the Colts lose, then in the past 10 years the Patriots will have been to four Super Bowls and won three. The Colts would have been to two Super Bowls and won one.

And why is 10 years the cutoff date? This is not some "team of the decade" thread.

 

[chevss454]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

because that was eons ago. the pats simply have not been a well run organization from 2005 onward. poor draft choices, bad free agent signings, hiring bad coaches, etc. it all falls on belichick and the media has let it go for the same reason you give (ie-3 super bowls in 4 years).

:wha:

Excuse me! How is that Scott Pioli got so much acclaim as a personnel man? Wasn't Pioli the front man of the player personnel dept?

I was deliriously happy when Pioli left the Pats because of the Pats' poor drafts starting with 2006. I blame Pioli for giving BB poor recommendations and/or poor scouting reports. Only 4 picks of the 2006-2008 drafts have had an impact. Pathetic, and, imo, Pioli is largely responsible.

BB has the most impt draft of his Pats tenure coming up; he knows what this team needs. I think this draft will go down as one of the Pats' best ever.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

I was deliriously happy when Pioli left the Pats because of the Pats' poor drafts starting with 2006. I blame Pioli for giving BB poor recommendations and/or poor scouting reports. Only 4 picks of the 2006-2008 drafts have had an impact. Pathetic, and, imo, Pioli is largely responsible.

I 100% agree that 2006 was the poorest draft of the BB era, by far. The best player has been our 4th round kicker. And it was a very talented draft.

 

[condon84]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

Colts drafting is nice and all, but it really is all about Peyton. The way he is playing right now, he can make Aiken and Stanback look like Pro-bowlers. It's not like Garcon and Collie are creating great separation against DBs. The DBs are all over them but Peyton puts the ball where his receivers can make the catch. The guy is unreal.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Im glad to see Pioli is getting blamed, since he is no longer here .. But when he was here we could not live without him... Come on guys, Look pioli was not that super, but he was not awful either.. 06 was a bad draft that killed the depth of this team, but hopefully we will bounce back.. Pioli was a great part of this championship run, its not wise to knock him

 

[everlong]

The Colts have their fair share of misses as well. Addai pretty much is Maroney. Ugoh 2nd rounder that they traded a first for is a miss. Pit**** a 3rd is gone.

However the place that the Colts have excelled at drafting is exactly where the Pats have failed and I think that's the difference right now. The 2009 class could counteract this I hope but prior to last years draft here's LBs, CBs and WRs.

04 draft foward

Sanders 2nd rounder
Gardner 3rd rounder
David 4th rounder
Gonazlez 1st rounder
Garcon 6th rounder
Session 4th rounder
Jennings 2nd rounder
Bethea 6th rounder
Rushing 7th rounder
Jackson 1st rounder
Hayen 2nd rounder
Keiaho 3rd rounder
Hagler 5th rounder

Hobbs 3rd rounder
Sanders 4th rounder
Jackson 2nd rounder
Mincey 5th rounder
Meriweather 1st rounder
Rogers 6th rounder
Lua 7th rounder
Reid 4th rounder
Scott 3rd rounder
Sam 5th rounder
Mayo 1st rounder
Wheatley 2nd rounder
Crable 3rd rounder
Wilhite 4th rounder

There isn't one complete bust in the Colts list. Most are starters. One is a former DPOY.

Meanwhile after Mayo who had one great year and one pretty average year injuries or not we have a couple of contributors, a lot of busts and Meriweather.

That Indy defense is the reason why they won in 06 and will probably win this year. Polian has, and this kills me, done a far superior job identifying players who fit their defensive system and plugging them in. Ditto with WR and they added Collie this year.

Hopefully Chung, Bulter and Edelman can continue to develop and Tate and McKenzie can return from injury but this is the area where the front office has failed.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: Gasperatriots are feeling Colts' draft

:wha:

Excuse me! How is that Scott Pioli got so much acclaim as a personnel man? Wasn't Pioli the front man of the player personnel dept?

I was deliriously happy when Pioli left the Pats because of the Pats' poor drafts starting with 2006. I blame Pioli for giving BB poor recommendations and/or poor scouting reports. Only 4 picks of the 2006-2008 drafts have had an impact. Pathetic, and, imo, Pioli is largely responsible.

BB has the most impt draft of his Pats tenure coming up; he knows what this team needs. I think this draft will go down as one of the Pats' best ever.

i hope you are right. i hope it was pioli who was responsible for the poor drafting. however, Belichick is ultimately responsible as it was Pioli who worked for BB. It's like if the economy is bad you blame the president even though there was someone else or other factors more directly reponsible. And belichick is to blame for the poor coaching this season - the offensive and defensive playcalling was atrocious.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We won in 01, 03, and 04. In 05 we were bound to lose and did (Broncos). In 06 we we lost a shootout to Indy 38-34 in which if any of about a half dozen breaks in the 4th qtr went our way, we win. In 07, we dominate the league and lose to a hot Giants team on fluke plays. So we should have won it 5 times in 7 years.

In 08 we lose Brady, still win 11 games but don't get in via a total fluke (and I think would have done some damage had we made it in).

Only because of the Ravens game are we feeling down. We could easily find ourselves on top again next year. I do wish we could develop better depth at WR though, and improve the pash rush.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Colts have their fair share of misses as well. Addai pretty much is Maroney. Ugoh 2nd rounder that they traded a first for is a miss. Pit**** a 3rd is gone.

However the place that the Colts have excelled at drafting is exactly where the Pats have failed and I think that's the difference right now. The 2009 class could counteract this I hope but prior to last years draft here's LBs, CBs and WRs.

04 draft foward

Sanders 2nd rounder
Gardner 3rd rounder
David 4th rounder
Gonazlez 1st rounder
Garcon 6th rounder
Session 4th rounder
Jennings 2nd rounder
Bethea 6th rounder
Rushing 7th rounder
Jackson 1st rounder
Hayen 2nd rounder
Keiaho 3rd rounder
Hagler 5th rounder

Hobbs 3rd rounder
Sanders 4th rounder
Jackson 2nd rounder
Mincey 5th rounder
Meriweather 1st rounder
Rogers 6th rounder
Lua 7th rounder
Reid 4th rounder
Scott 3rd rounder
Sam 5th rounder
Mayo 1st rounder
Wheatley 2nd rounder
Crable 3rd rounder
Wilhite 4th rounder

There isn't one complete bust in the Colts list. Most are starters. One is a former DPOY.

Meanwhile after Mayo who had one great year and one pretty average year injuries or not we have a couple of contributors, a lot of busts and Meriweather.

That Indy defense is the reason why they won in 06 and will probably win this year. Polian has, and this kills me, done a far superior job identifying players who fit their defensive system and plugging them in. Ditto with WR and they added Collie this year.

Hopefully Chung, Bulter and Edelman can continue to develop and Tate and McKenzie can return from injury but this is the area where the front office has failed.

By putting 3 disparate groups together, you make a non-issue seem like an issue. The linebacker spot is the most telling, really.

Patriots LB, round taken:
5
7
6
6
3
1
3

Not a single linebacker was taken above round 5 until 2008. 2008 saw the team draft a DROY and a player who's been unfortunate enough to end up on IR twice. 2009 resulted in a player who ended up on IR. In other words, the only healthy LB drafted above the 5th round was the defensive rookie of the year.



Colts LB, round taken:
4
3
5
3
4
5
3

Not a single linebacker taken below the 5th round. Also, Kendyll Pope, who isn't on your list, was a 4th round pick for the Colts who was busted for violating the substance abuse policy and never did a meaningful thing in the NFL. He'd certainly qualify as a complete bust, and a bigger one than any Patriots LB from 2004 to the present.

This may be something worth re-visiting in a year or two if you're someone who blames teams for injured players. Other than that, it's a non-issue.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We won in 01, 03, and 04. In 05 we were bound to lose and did (Broncos). In 06 we we lost a shootout to Indy 38-34 in which if any of about a half dozen breaks in the 4th qtr went our way, we win. In 07, we dominate the league and lose to a hot Giants team on fluke plays. So we should have won it 5 times in 7 years.

In 08 we lose Brady, still win 11 games but don't get in via a total fluke (and I think would have done some damage had we made it in).

Only because of the Ravens game are we feeling down. We could easily find ourselves on top again next year. I do wish we could develop better depth at WR though, and improve the pash rush.

You're wasting your breath. An ever increasing segment of this fan base expects to win it all every season, got addicted to attending superbowls and trolling their rivals, and after 4 disappointments in a row there are no excuses.

Remember how Atlanta Braves fans became notoriously complacent, team couldn't sell out early round playoff tickets because the fan's weren't interested in anything beyond championship round play...that's who this fanbase has become...either win it all or you suck and don't deserve me. Competitive, the thing pats fans would have sold their soul for for years, is crap. They all want the team to take the window approach and the future be damned. Of course until the future arrives...at which time they will be pissed and calling for BB to be canned and Brady traded because they aren't winning at all anymore and as fans they deserve better...