Front Seven

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

While he’s a good FS and is underrated forcing teams to throw in front of them, he’s never been a “ball hawk” at that position.

He has 28 career INTs.
Earl Thomas has 30.
Eric Weddle had 29.

With defensive rules, the days are gone of a safety racking up 50-60 career picks. Ed Reed was the last one. McCourty is as good as any other safety in this era…but for a false narrative about his impact.

 

[TheRainMaker]

He has 28 career INTs.
Earl Thomas has 30.
Eric Weddle had 29.

With defensive rules, the days are gone of a safety racking up 50-60 career picks. Ed Reed was the last one. McCourty is as good as any other safety in this era…but for a false narrative about his impact.

He averages less than 2 INT per year as a FS. That’s not a ball hawk.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He averages less than 2 INT per year as a FS. That’s not a ball hawk.

Who is a ball hawking safety in the modern game? And what is that player’s average per year?

 

[Sicilian]

and I hope that we win the Super Bowl.

It is fine to have hopes.
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BTW, when was the last patriot rookie that was a star from Day 1?

First ones that jump to my mind recently were Chandler Jones and Donta Hightower. Not "stars" per se, but you saw their potential very early on. I think it was week 1 that year where Jones caused a strip sack and Hightower scooped it up for a TD.

EDIT: Removed Gronk, as I realized this was probably just in the context of the front seven.

 

[ashley]

I'm expecting big things from Uche this year, love the resigning of Guy and with High and Van Noy coming back, this defense should be
top 5 in the league IF Gilmore returns. We have a lot of depth at each position with the exception of CB, so hopefully, we'll be able to work out something with him. I really think our "D' will be good this year.

 

[Uptown]

He has 28 career INTs.
Earl Thomas has 30.
Eric Weddle had 29.

With defensive rules, the days are gone of a safety racking up 50-60 career picks. Ed Reed was the last one. McCourty is as good as any other safety in this era…but for a false narrative about his impact.

Yep. He also had much more responsibility than the other two safeties. He didn’t just get to roam in the “single high sphere.”

 

[PScottman]

We have a lot of depth at each position with the exception of CB

??? There is tons of DB depth. The false narrative is formulated from the same group that are "all eggs in one basket, if no All-Pro every position including subs then the Pats be FUBAR". There isn't CB1 depth if Gilmore holds out - THAT is true, but overall the back end has similar rotational middle class depth to the front seven.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who is a ball hawking safety in the modern game? And what is that player’s average per year?

None that I can think of, but comparing him to other S’s wasn’t my initial argument. All I was saying was that If you’re not getting many chances on the ball like a CB can, you can’t be a ball hawk.

However if you want to compare him to other S’s, then I would agree with your definition of a ball hawk.

 

[TheRainMaker]

??? There is tons of DB depth. The false narrative is formulated from the same group that are "all eggs in one basket, if no All-Pro every position including subs then the Pats be FUBAR". There isn't CB1 depth if Gilmore holds out - THAT is true, but overall the back end has similar rotational middle class depth to the front seven.

Yeah I don’t understand that statement either. Assuming Gilmore returns, Pats have arguably the best CB’s at their positions from #1-#3 (Gilly, JC, Jones) in the NFL while teams are hoping to have at least one good CB.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yeah I'm not too pessimistic on inside beef with either Guy, Godcheaux, or Barmore. But two of them are more like 3-4 DEs and 1 is an undersized NT. The LB corps is great. The only missing piece is a true big fat guy. In BB's defense when we have an elite CB1 and a big fat guy, that bodes for an exciting season ahead.

.

While I agree, I can’t name many DT’s in the NFL that is known to be an elite run stuffer.

They are a rare breed these days.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

While I agree, I can’t name many DT’s in the NFL that is known to be an elite run stuffer.

They are a rare breed these days.

There are plenty of elite run stuffers at DT/IDL. Not sure what you mean by that?

Probably referring to the "big fatty" in the middle? They don't exist anymore for the most part bc it's not 1994. You don't have to have a 340lb guy in the middle of your defense anymore.

Honestly we have to be better than this lol. Posters have been talking to air for years failing to realize the shift in the league. It's embarrassing when you're talking about football everyday.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

.

While I agree, I can’t name many DT’s in the NFL that is known to be an elite run stuffer.

They are a rare breed these days.

I hear ya. A quick glance at the top5 run defenses have a bunch of real fat DLine guys on the roster. It's not like offensive guards are getting tinier.

 

[mgteich]

??? There is tons of DB depth. The false narrative is formulated from the same group that are "all eggs in one basket, if no All-Pro every position including subs then the Pats be FUBAR". There isn't CB1 depth if Gilmore holds out - THAT is true, but overall the back end has similar rotational middle class depth to the front seven.

1) There is tons of DB depth.

2) f Gilmore doesn't play for us this year, we have no depth at CB.

Both of these statements are NOT true.

If we don't have Gilmore, we are average at corner, instead of having the position as a major strength. Plus, in 2022 this would be our #1 need. with Jackson as a free agent.
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MY BOTTOM LINE
We have solid backups Dugger and Mills. If Gilmore plays, this active 7 will be among the best in the league.

HOWEVER, I would be very happy if none of the rest get ANY reps. IMO, there is a large drop-off after the top 7.

 

[catent]

If he stays healthy I think Godchaux is going to be a really good player here.

Athletic guy with a little bit of pocket push too. Tree-trunks for legs, pretty powerful and explosive from what I've seen.

 

[PScottman]

f we don't have Gilmore, we are average at corner, instead of having the position as a major strength.

If average is around #16 or so in the league in true numbers - has that been the case every time Gilmore has been out previously? Probably as good a guess as any.

Average is a broad term though - if they fall to say #12 in the league which is still probably still considered average are they still a fringe playoff team? Jackson and Jones are not average, in fact I would argue they're top third. McCourty, Duggar and Mills are probably all as you say in the average range at this point.

I just continue to chafe at the "lose one guy and all is lost" memes.

 

[amfootball]

Interesting thread. DL is the least of my worries compared to Qb and receivers and Gilmore.

 

[ashley]

??? There is tons of DB depth. The false narrative is formulated from the same group that are "all eggs in one basket, if no All-Pro every position including subs then the Pats be FUBAR". There isn't CB1 depth if Gilmore holds out - THAT is true, but overall the back end has similar rotational middle class depth to the front seven.

If Gilmore doesn't play, where is our CB depth?

 

[BTTA]

If average is around #16 or so in the league in true numbers - has that been the case every time Gilmore has been out previously? Probably as good a guess as any.

Average is a broad term though - if they fall to say #12 in the league which is still probably still considered average are they still a fringe playoff team? Jackson and Jones are not average, in fact I would argue they're top third. McCourty, Duggar and Mills are probably all as you say in the average range at this point.

I just continue to chafe at the "lose one guy and all is lost" memes.

We tend to understate the talent on the team.

Ranking top 10 cornerbacks in NFL for 2021: Jalen Ramsey leads pack that includes talented newcomers

Ranking top 10 cornerbacks, safeties in NFL: Marcus Peters lands redemption, Tyrann Mathieu steals the throne

www.cbssports.com

 

[BTTA]

1) There is tons of DB depth.

2) f Gilmore doesn't play for us this year, we have no depth at CB.

Both of these statements are NOT true.

If we don't have Gilmore, we are average at corner, instead of having the position as a major strength. Plus, in 2022 this would be our #1 need. with Jackson as a free agent.
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MY BOTTOM LINE
We have solid backups Dugger and Mills. If Gilmore plays, this active 7 will be among the best in the league.

HOWEVER, I would be very happy if none of the rest get ANY reps. IMO, there is a large drop-off after the top 7.

I'm hopeful about the growth in the youngsters. Bryant, Ross, and Jackson are all eligible for big leaps, especially given last year's limited camp time. If 2 of those guys do it, Gilmore comes back and is healthy, and with Mills as an emergency, the CB depth is the best I can recall on any Pats' team. A lot of teams would love to have Joejuan as their outside backup option. In the above scenario, he wouldn't see the field.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah I'm not too pessimistic on inside beef with either Guy, Godcheaux, or Barmore. But two of them are more like 3-4 DEs and 1 is an undersized NT. The LB corps is great. The only missing piece is a true big fat guy. In BB's defense when we have an elite CB1 and a big fat guy, that bodes for an exciting season ahead.

Carl Davis is getting no mention or love here, last season the only time the run defense was good was when they acquired Davis and Guy was healthy. Davis is a journeyman who never could stay healthy, he has had a long circuitous route the arrive here but he's big and talented. It would't surprise me if he stuck on the roster.

IMO Godcheaux will be a disappointment, he makes a lot of tackles for a DT but they're usually downfield. If he's supposed to be this great run stuffer I don't see it, he seems like a motor guy and nothing else. Our best hope if that Barmore is a stud who can both stop the run and rush the passer.